Half a dozen robberies plus

Status
Not open for further replies.
Grayrock

Grayrock

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
1,820
Location
The great state of TEXAS
Our stores have been hit by armed (mostly) robbers 6 or 8 times in the last 2 weeks. I am in the back where the felons do not seem to come. They run in and get $ from some of the registers near the front door. Company policy prohibits me from carrying a weapon, even though I have a CHL and the company places no restrictions on customers. Would you carry anyway? Keep your weapon nearby in your vehicle? Invest in non-lethal weapons (ie: stun gun, pepper spray, etc)? Or just stay alert and try to keep a low profile and hope they don't make it to the back of the store?
 
Company policy prohibits me from carrying a weapon, even though I have a CHL and the company places no restrictions on customers. Would you carry anyway?
Click to expand...
Yes, I would.

No matter what they're paying you, they're not paying you enough to helplessly plead for your life and then die on your knees in some back room.

pax

The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on. -- Joseph Heller in Catch-22
 
Carry in deep concealment. The risk of getting caught is negligible. The risk of getting dead makes it worthwhile.
 
I would carry. Unless you are making a huge salary the risks of being caught are far outweighed by the benefit of being able to defend yourself.
 
I'd carry...
chances are that the policy of the company is a CYOA thing to try to keep themselves out of trouble. They care more about being sued because you had a gun, then you being alive because you had a gun....

it sucks but many places would rather you be dead and them not be sued, than you alive and them sued (which may likely happen by the BG's surviving relatives, who surely are a benefit to society and well off....)
 
What city in TX? What company? I'd love an email address for the headquarters of the company, so I can email them a letter in support of permitting licensed employees being allowed to carry, since they place no 30-06 sign on the stores for the rest of us.
 
Let's just say it is a major retail drugstore in the area and nation.

No one would know if I carried, but if I ever had to defend myself, then EVERYONE would know. Company policy is just cooperate- give em what they want- and observe closely so you make a good witness. That is what insurance is for ( so they tell us.) With my time invested here, it is not worth my while to get another job. They compensate me well enough that I don't really want to make any waves.

I could run out the back door (setting off an alarm), around to my car and retrieve my weapon. If I don't enter the store, parking lots would not be considered "on the premises", would they?
 
Grayrock .. I'm with MPayne ... deep conceal. If SHTF one day and things get nasty enough .. you'd have time to prepare even from a SmartCarry or similar. The others need never know you are carrying.

And if ... heaven forbid ... SHTF in your area .... then being alive is way preferable to the Company telling your family you are deceased. Sort out the hassles after the event if it ever happens .. you'll still have a life.
 
Company policy is just cooperate- give em what they want
Click to expand...
And that's what you should do - even if you are carrying. No sense being a hero over somebody else's money.

At least, up until the point that it becomes "go into the back room and lay down [should be 'lie down" but robbers don't know better] ...."

Then the alarm bells should be going off and you should kick into survival mode.
 
I've seen this before....

Unfortunately with the economy the way it is right now, with so many people in search of work, with no clear sign of relief in site, most companies are viewing employees as interchangeable units of production and aren't particularly concerned with keeping you around because they have a line a mile long full of your replacements. They're looking out for themselves, you have to do the same. Understand that packing heat on private property you know you're not supposed to can make you a felon, even though you chances of being caught are small. At a minimum find non-weapons that can be kept nearby and readily employed against an attacker, keep an eye on all points of access, if you have buddies who would see things the same way you do, form a "wolf pack." When I was a kid I worked at a grocery store in a very rough part of town and that's what we did to handle the eventualities that came up from time to time. I can't condemn or condone violating the weapons policy since that one has legal ramifications. You have to make that call.
 
Just carry. You can always get a new job. You can't get a new life. Last night, I just showed my wife my Smartcarry with my Glock 27. I have been using it a month. She had no clue. She is not exactly wild about guns. But, it fooled her so much she thought it was cool.

Do it.
 
Don't remember the details but some years ago a large bankdisarmed their security guards, essentially making them doormen. After one was shot and killed in aholdup the bank supposedly settled for major big $$$ with the dead guard's estate.
One of the gun rags a couple (or 3 or 4)yrs ago had an article re: candidate for Gov of Alaska (wildalaskawhereareyou?) who is an attorney. He told of asking for the name of a landlord's insurance carrier after the landlord banned guns in his bldg. Lawyer said he wanted carrier to know the liability the landlord was placing on them. Ban recinded.
I'd carry. Do it right and nobody will know unless you need it---then it don't matter.
Stay safe!
Bob
 
I would carry. Being fired beats being killed every time. Smart carry would probably work well. Be aware of non weapons/improvised weapons that can be used if SHTF. A fire extinguisher is a good non weapon.

Give BGs the money or stuff they want. If they push further.....then do what you have to.
 
If you carry, expect to be fired. With that in mind, make your decision as best as you can.

Say you carry and the guys come to rob your store. You draw your gun and you will be fired. If you don't get fired, consider yourself lucky.

And now with that in mind, deep concealment will help keep your pistol from being readily spotted by accident, but it will also likely keep you from getting access to your pistol in time...if these heists are as quick as they sound.

Your life or your job. That should be a no brainer and keeping your life may mean losing your job. If you get fired for having the gun, just consider it one of the costs of being a CHL person and move on with your life.
 
Carry on Private Property

I don't know about TX, but for most states, if you're caught carrying on private property, you can lose your right to CHL.

Having said that, if you do decide to carry, deep carry would be the only way to go. From the sounds of it you work in the pharmacy of this large drug store chain and if I recall from most of my experiences, they have an apron or jacket that should make deep carry that much easier for you and more accessible than if you're just wearing a shirt and slacks.
 
Grayrock,
Please give us the name of the company,if need be in a PM to protect your identity.

The pharmacy company will not know where the correspondence came from and the those sending correspondence Will NOT reveal the source.

"Dear XXX Pharmacy,
It has come to my attention that you DENY the right of employees to defend themselves. Many persons have taken the personal responsibility to obtain training , FBI background checks, passed various firearms safety requirements in order to carry concealed.

If you should require documented references and instances where the carrying of concealed firearms have sent a message to criminals and the robberies have ceased/decreased, please advise.

As a customer I'm very uncomfortable with doing business with a company that denies an employee this right of self protection. I can also forward documented accounts of employees being led to the back room and being shot to death, not only during hours of operation, but as the employees enter and leave for the day - the most vulnerable and most likely time for robbery to occur."

Concerned Citizen / Customer
 
Ah! The myth of words and self defense rears its ugly head once again...

Quote...
"It has come to my attention that you DENY the right of employees to defend themselves."

This is a misrepresentation of rights and words. The company has NOT denied the employees the right to self defense. It has denied them permission to carry firearms on its property. Firearms are just one form of self defense that can be implemented and not the only one. So the company has not denied the right to self defense, only to the carrying of firearms and hence use of firearms for defense. That is their right as a private organization.

I fully agree with the rest of the letter, but by starting off with a non-truth is not a way to develop a convincing argument, even if that is how you (as the author) feel about denial of firearms carry. With starting off in such a manner or presenting information that isn't correct and is incorrect in the favor of the person writing, not the company, it takes on an inflammatory tone as it draws into consideration either that you don't think that they are bright enough to catch the flaw and/or that you have immediately presented a huge obstacle about which obviously there will be no discussion and tainted it in such as form by altering fact to show this lack of flexibility in that it is suggested that firearms are the only tool within the realm of self defense. To deny guns is to deny self defense - see, no room for discussion. When you are the person asking for a change on the part of another, such as a company, such a factually challenged and inflammatory ultimatum doesn't get very far.

If the employee agrees to work for the company with those rules in place, the employee reallly needs to reconsider employment options, or carry against policy with the known reality of getting fired if discovered by accident or during an emergency and just live with that reality.
 
Point of clarification

Is the policy written in a personnel manual and says, "Thou shalt not pack heat on company property" or is it an understanding that you have with your boss. Big difference between the two.
 
Some basic truths (thankfully learned from others on this forum and TFL, numerous instructors, plus experience):

1. If you know you're going into a war zone, best option is to not go. You don't own the place. Quit.
2. If you feel compelled to keep the job, and enter the war zone, then carrying will at least give you the option to survive. As many cops will tell you ... better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6. See Thunderwear and Smartcarry for 2 good deep cover options ... I've used Thunderwear for years, and they wear well ... no one will know.
3. For civil and criminal legal reasons, potential of a missed shot and innocent life endangered, and employment issues ... don't use your firearm unless you truly must do so to protect innocent life. Following such use, expect to be arrested, and say nothing except that you need to speak with your attorney.
4. No large company today will ever tell their non-security employees they can carry concealed. The current legal / insurance environment will not permit it, no matter the personal philosophies of the executives / owners.
5. IF you must use your firearm to defend innocent life, also expect to be fired ... while some of the executives, and many of the policie officers end up respecting your action. Large companies get to be large companies by recognizing economic reality ... and the current legal system requires consistent application of policy.

Hopefully the LEO's will finally get these perp's. However ... you and your co-workers are taking grievous risks. Any a**hole that is willing to wave a gun around during commission of a crime is not someone you want to trust with your life. At least update your resume and look at alternatives ... you are in an untenable situation, and these stories often do not end well.

Good luck.

Regards from TX
 
Last edited:
I vote for Carry concealed (and I mean concealed) and don't talk about it to anyone.

The day you have to actually use it to stop lethal force from being used against you is also the day that your lawyer talks to their lawyer about the companies policy and their lack of proper protection for their employees and their decision to terminate a person who probably saved the lives of the remaining employees in that particular store.

Who knows, they might even listen to your attorney.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Rethinking the robbery scenario strategy
2 3 4
Replies
94
Views
2K
Kleanbore
K
X
  • Locked
Agent shot in apparent robbery attempt
Replies
3
Views
698
sturmruger
sturmruger
D
  • Locked
Alternative defensive tools
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
island
I
Master Blaster
  • Locked
Diner owner Defends life with handgun.
Replies
19
Views
1K
doubleg
D
O
  • Locked
Trying Again to Write a Letter to My University Newspaper
Replies
20
Views
1K
the naked prophet
T
Back
Top