Half-Cocked

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ripcurlksm

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Does anyone carry or store their pistol half-cocked and chambered? A buddy of mine has a CCW and carries a Kimber Custom Tactical with a round chambered and the hammer down. I asked him what he thought about half-cocked and he didnt realize it was even an option.

My question for you: Is half-cocked simply used to make it easier to fully cock the hammer when drawing? And it also appears to be a "safer" way to carry for those not ready to carry cocked?
 
I have stored EMPTY pistols with the hammer on half-cock, but a 1911 platform pistol should never, ever be stored with the hammer at half-cock and the chamber loaded.

In addition, the pistol should never be carried with the chamber loaded and the hammer at half cock. If the pistol is dropped, or if the hammer is hit a hard blow, it may fire! The sole purpose of the half-cock is to catch the hammer if it should ever follow down from full-cock. The pistol was designed to be safe if carried with the hammer fully-down, or cocked & locked.

You can make an exception for Colt Series 80 models, and others with a positive, mechanical firing pin block - but I wouldn't.

I think your friend is suffering from a serious case of ignorence. :uhoh:
 
Don't Carry Half-Cocked

From what I understand, the half-cock is a backup safety incase the hammer falls off full-cock without pulling the trigger. You don't want to leave it on half-cock because, if done enough, it could damage sear & hammer. Also, if you leave it on half-cock, and the hammer somehow falls, you have no other safeties (except the SA models have one more little notch for redundant safety). The gun could fire in this case. From what I understand, the SAFEST way to carry a 1911 ready to go is "Cocked and Locked". I know the half-cock looks tempting, but most recommend against it.

Regards,
Benjamin
 
Hence the phrase... "Going off half cocked!"

Not really, but it is appropriate!!!!
 
The pistol was designed to be safe if carried with the hammer fully-down, or cocked & locked.
Wasn't the 1911 designed to ONLY be carried cocked/locked? NOT hammer down?
 
Only two ways to go

Cocked and Locked, or nothing in the chamber. Only two ways to go IMHO.
 
I carry my Beretta on half-cock. The manual safety on the model 92 can be manipulated with very little pressure, and I prefer my guns to be "draw and shoot" to maintain uniform handling. When the Beretta's placed on half-cock I'm less likely to engage the manual safety accidentally since it requires more force to do so.

However, I still practice drawing with the safety on, taking it off when I've cleared leather. That way I'm programmed to sweep the safety off when I draw, and if it's already off as intended, then no harm done with the extra step.
 
PsyopsSpec said:
I carry my Beretta on half-cock. The manual safety on the model 92 can be manipulated with very little pressure, and I prefer my guns to be "draw and shoot" to maintain uniform handling. When the Beretta's placed on half-cock I'm less likely to engage the manual safety accidentally since it requires more force to do so.

However, I still practice drawing with the safety on, taking it off when I've cleared leather. That way I'm programmed to sweep the safety off when I draw, and if it's already off as intended, then no harm done with the extra step.

I'm not understanding why you would need to half cock it. If you don't want to leave the manual external safety on, why not just leave the gun hammer down with the external safety off? If you still sweep it off every time you draw it...why not just leave the manual safety on, hammer down?
 
Guys...

You need to do some research... Study up... Learn a little ... :)

In 1898 John Browning entered into an agreement with Colt. He would design some "magazine pistols," and they would manufacturer and market them within an assigned area, that included the United States, England and a large part of South America. Browning would receive a royalty on each pistol sold. He had a similar agreement with Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium that covered most of Europe.

The first pistol marketed by Colt was a short-recoil, locked breech, .38 caliber pistol that did not have either a safety lock (manual safety) nor grip safety. I can safely say that he didn’t intend on users carrying the piece, with a round in the chamber, cocked but unlocked. We may not get along on anything else, but I hope we can agree on this point. ;)

So how was one supposed to carry the pistol? Well they could:

1. Carry it with a loaded magazine but empty chamber, in which case a cocked or uncocked hammer was a moot point, but obviously with the hammer down was preferred.

2. Carry it with the magazine and chamber loaded, but with the hammer down. Now this idea drives some of today’s users of the 1911 pistol up the wall, but it didn’t bother Browning at all. But then, what did he know… :rolleyes:

Well he knew a lot. He had designed and patented what was called an “Inertia Firing Pin.” The firing pin itself was shorter then the tunnel in the slide, and the pin was held backwards by a coil spring. When the hammer (falling from full cock) hit the firing pin it was driven forward and literally bounced off the primer, detonating it in the process. The firing pin spring pushed the pin back to its rearward position so that the nose did not rest on the next cartridge that was fed into the chamber. So long as the hammer was carried in a fully down position the firing pin could not be impacted with enough force to drive it forward to hit the primer.

However in theory, if the pistol was dropped on the muzzle, and the firing pin spring was weak, kinked, or otherwise damaged, and the sun/moon was under a cloud on the fifth Sunday of the month, the firing pin might, because of its own weight, go forward with enough velocity to set off a primer.

This makes an excellent theory, but in practice such an incident is so rare that one is hard pressed to find an actual, confirmed case of it happening. I only know of 2 such incidents (and I’ve been looking for them for over 50 years) and in both cases the firing pin spring had been degraded by extensive dry firing with nothing but air in the chamber. This practice can indeed ruin firing pin springs. :eek:

All of Browning’s pistols that had exposed hammers (the kind that you can cock) had inertia firing pins, and that included both the 1905 and 1911 .45 designs. However the 1911 prototypes did not have a manual safety lock until about 4 months before the Army adopted the pistol, and it was included over Browning’s recommendations. :what:

In or about 1938, Colt introduced a positive firing pin block that would prevent any possibility of an unintentional discharge if the pistol was dropped on the muzzle. It was called the “Swartz Safety,” after William Swartz who invented it. Colt tried to sell the Army on it, but Uncle Sam (and Brazil for that matter) wouldn’t buy it. After World War Two Colt quietly dropped it. :eek:

Now I don’t really care how people decide to carry their 1911 pattern pistols, but it is a solid fact that generations of users – both civilian and military – occasionally carried the pistol with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. If this practice had led to an inordinate number of unintentional shootings two things would have happened. First, it would have been widely reported in firearms literature of the day, and second, Colt would have done something about it long before the Series 80 pistols came out. The fact that neither of these things happened should tell you something. :scrutiny:

So says The Old Fuff – who has indeed done his homework. :cool:
 
I have never understood the 1/2 cocked trigger. My DA/SA triggered guns I carry round in the chamber, decocked, safety off and my SA guns I carry condition 1. Once you train yourself, it easy and very effective.
 
I agree with Old Fuff about the 1911 being safe with a round in the chamber and the hammer all the way down, but the problem is to get the hammer down in the first place. To get the hammer down you need to pull the trigger while you ease the hammer past the full and half-cock notches. If the hammer slips from under your thumb somewhere along the way the gun could fire. That is one of the reasons that most people recommend carrying the 1911 cocked and locked.
 
Actually, the FIRST Colt-Browning .38 Automatic Pistol had the peculiar rear sight safety, which was only a firing pin block, it did not lock out the hammer, sear, or trigger.

From a contemporary article in 'Shooting and Fishing' April 19, 1900.

"The magazine is charged with seven cartridges and returned to the stock. The pistol is then returned to the right hand; the thumb and forefinger of the left hand then grasp the slide at the point where the corrugated places are shown, and by a quick pull backwards the are is cocked, this motion also carrying the top cartridge in the magazine forward into the chamber. If the operator desires to fire the weapon, the safety -- called the firing-pin block, which is also the rear sight -- is raised, aim taken, and the arm discharged. The firing-pin block may be raised before charging the magazine, if preferred, and left raised; the arm cannot be fired when the firing pin block is down, even if a cartridge be in the chamber, though the hammer may be cocked and snapped.

If it is not desired to fire all the cartridges, the hammer can be lowered and left at half cock, the safety left raised or lowered as desired. It is believed that most of those who use this pistol will, when they cease firing, remove the cartridge from the magazine, leaving the chamber empty. They will make it a habit, when ready to fire the arm, to cock the piece by drawing the slide to the rear with the left hand as shown in illustration; this operation being done quicker than one can cock the hammer with the thumb."

Kind of academic, the 1902 guns had no such firing pin block/rear sight, and indeed, Colt took them off any 1900 that was sent in for service. But it remains true that the very first Colt-Browning pistol did have a manual safety to block its full length bronze firing pin. The inertial firing pin came later.
 
Jim Watson

You're right. In my rush to reply I forgot about the Model 1900 having a firing pin block in the rear sight... :eek:

But it was quickly discontinued - either being unpopular or seen as unnecessary.

HammerBite

I agree with Old Fuff about the 1911 being safe with a round in the chamber and the hammer all the way down, but the problem is to get the hammer down in the first place.

This is another thing that is more theorical then a real life occurance - especially when the pistol came with a wide spur hammer.
 
Old Fuff said:
This is another thing that is more theorical then a real life occurance - especially when the pistol came with a wide spur hammer.
I agree. I have been shooting for 50 years and haven't had a hammer slip yet. I seldom lower the hammer on a hot chamber, but I usually fondle three or four guns each day and that adds up to a lot of manually-lowered hammers.

Geez . . . the realization that I have been shooting for a half-century was sobering. I guess that explains the old wrinkled guy who is always looking at me through the bathroom mirror.
 
Geez . . . the realization that I have been shooting for a half-century was sobering. I guess that explains the old wrinkled guy who is always looking at me through the bathroom mirror.

I know the feeling... :D
 
I am not in favor of C-2 carry, although I learned it pretty thoroughly about 30 years ago. Then I realized that the guy so vocal and so proficient in it who taught me was lefthanded in a day before ambi safeties were common.
So I went to C-1. But I still have the Commander with wide spur hammer and G.M. grip safety I had installed for C-2 carry.

I have shot a CZ75 with a DA start for home defense and IDPA SSP. It does not have a mechanical decocker so the hammer has to be lowered manually. My "pre-B" has a long hammer spur with sharp and undercut serrations for the purpose and I have never had an AD or even come close in competition or practice.

But these are rather special cases with guns made for the job. I would not undertake to thumb cock a 1911 with burr hammer and beavertail under an overhanging adjustable sight, for instance. Nor would I like to try to get the hammer down on a current CZ with burr hammer and pronounced beavertail... even though Matthew Mink and Angus Hobdell do it routinely for IPSC Production.

Nowadays, I figure if I want the hammer down, I will use a gun with the machinery to do it; like my Sig-Sauer.
 
The old Spur hammers were easier to manipulate in my opinion with less danger of them slipping and firing unexpectedly. I like them for nostalga as I think thy are cool, but I like the "Commander" style for carry.
I don't trust myself to manipulate the hammer with a live round in the chamber so I do not do it.

Cocked and Locked the sear is blocked from moving and the hammer is blocked from falling if the sear/hammer connection should fail. I feel very comfortable with that. If I want a less degree of readiness I carry with hammer down and no round in the chamber. My personal preferences here.
 
Good discussion, eh?

So which do you think is faster to fire:

1. Manually cocking the hammer on a loaded chamber
2. Racking the slide on an empty chamber
 
If you don't want to leave the manual external safety on, why not just leave the gun hammer down with the external safety off? If you still sweep it off every time you draw it...why not just leave the manual safety on, hammer down?

I don't leave it hammer down safety off because on rare occasion after carrying OWB I've come to find that the safety was on when I didn't intend for it to be. I don't leave it on because, as I stated before I prefer for my guns to need only one step to shoot after drawing, and that's "pull the trigger."
 
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