Hamas in power
- Thread starter Gun_nut
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a terrorist organization running a country stevelyn
Member
It's a sovereign nation with a lawfully elected govt voted in by the people there. It would be in everyone's interest to recognize it as such. Hamas should at least be given as much benefit of the doubt as the IRA was given.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
MechAg94 said:
Do you think they care? Seriously, it seems to me that the voters knew full well what they were putting in power. It seems like state sponsored terrorism is exactly what the average Palestinian voter is asking for.
Voters put Hitler in power as well. Democracy worked well then huh?
There are some saying we HAVE to acknowledge this as legitimate because it came out of a democratic process. Was the same thing said about Hitlers election as Chancellor?
What if you knew at Hitlers election what was coming?
Do we know now what Hamas will do? What are the chances that they will "play nice".
I think somewhere between slim and none......
Lupinus
Member
I say recognize it. This isn't Saddam where any other runner were killed or put there by him to try and make it look more lagit. It is now a goverment, not just a terrorist organization. Like them or not they ere democraticly elected to office.
That said I second that they need to be careful now. An attack on Isreal ordered by Hammas is now legally a decleration of war and Isreal would be 100% in the right to counter-attack. No more pansying around from the Palistinian goverment and the terrorist groups.
That said I second that they need to be careful now. An attack on Isreal ordered by Hammas is now legally a decleration of war and Isreal would be 100% in the right to counter-attack. No more pansying around from the Palistinian goverment and the terrorist groups.
No, I don't think they care. But we are no longer dealing with terrorists hiding among a bunch of refugees the evil Israelis kicked out where the only choices are better security and counter-terrorism efforts. Now we are dealing with the terrorists who are the military of a full blown country. Now a general military solution is justified and it can't be said the average Palestinian is innocent in all this. It is a political/legal change that Hamas might need to consider.
I don't know if it changes anything practically, but it is continuing the change Arafat started when he finally got a country and continued to sponsor terrorism. They aren't just a bunch of refugees that even the other Arab countries wouldn't take. They have their own land now, they need to act more responsibly or pay the consequences.
I don't know if it changes anything practically, but it is continuing the change Arafat started when he finally got a country and continued to sponsor terrorism. They aren't just a bunch of refugees that even the other Arab countries wouldn't take. They have their own land now, they need to act more responsibly or pay the consequences.
On a positive note, it proves that the Palestinian people are totally fed up with 40 years of misery that Fatah has given them. This could end up as a good thing - kinda like a bootlegger like Joe Kennedey going legit. Now that Hamas has legitimacy, they will be held accountable for the impact of their actions/decisions. Additionally, their actions will be far more transparent.
Manedwolf
member
MechAg94 said:
Uh...Let's see. US Credibility Check
1. USA says we promote democracy.
2. They have a legitmate election via democracy. We don't like the results
3. We blow them up.
US credibility score in eyes of entire world: Zero.
You can't only play democracy when you like how the dice land.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Exactly. Hamas is going to HAVE to back off. As long as Fatah was in power and Hamas was allegedly operating in the shadows, the Palestinian government could protest the violence and blame Hamas. Now, if Hamas carries out any attacks, the Palestinian government will be seen as much more directly responsible.
The fact was, under Fatah, even if the Palestinian gov't wanted to stop the attacks, it didn't really have the tools to do so (it realistically couldn't have gone toe-to-toe with Hamas, IMHO, either tactically or politically). Now, Hamas will have to police itself, or else. Which could be a good thing.
Lennyjoe
Member
Just seen on the news where the Fatah folks are rallying against the election. Maybe they will have a civil war against each other.
Manedwolf said:
Who says we are going to blow them up? Come on man, We are tied with Iraq...I see no "blowing up" of Palestein in the near future....thats what the Israelies are for. And lets think of the consequences if Isreal declares war on Hamas (now that they are a government)...you would have every middle-east nation supporting Palestein....just imagine another 6 day war....only with Nukes now.
Bush did acknowledge the government of Palestein ..... he just said they should renouce their terror tactics if we want to do "busniess" with Hamas. Crazy world....
Manedwolf said:
agreed. hopefully we just keep our mouths shut and let it play out like this:
hamas orders new suicide bombings when new conservative, hard-line israeli prime minister is elected. israel makes legitimate declaration of war and finally destroys the "palestinian authority", can now turn attention to other pesky arab neighbours after quickly securing borders and flooding the west bank and gaza strip with fresh jewish settlers....fingers crossed.
wallysparx
Member
they're still not a country, last i checked. and they certainly aren't continuing what arafat started, seeing as how they're currently exchanging fire with supporters of arafat's fatah party.MechAg94 said:
Hamas has just been honest enough over the years to NOT lie about their ultimate aim -- the destruction of Israel and the death of as many Jews as they can accomplish. This is of course the same ultimate goal that Arafat and Fatah had, they were just smart enough to lie about it to the rest of the world for political purposes.
Nothing has changed except not as many people will be able to keep their head in the sand about the situation as before -- which may be a good thing.
We can easily 'Recognize' that Hamas is now the legitimately elected party in power in Palestine, and still utterly reject their policies and goals. If Hamas wants to abandon their genocidal barbarity, then maybe we can talk.
Nothing has changed except not as many people will be able to keep their head in the sand about the situation as before -- which may be a good thing.
We can easily 'Recognize' that Hamas is now the legitimately elected party in power in Palestine, and still utterly reject their policies and goals. If Hamas wants to abandon their genocidal barbarity, then maybe we can talk.
rwc
Member
Two types of folks were surprised by the results of this election:
1. Those not paying attention, and
2. Those who thought Fatah would steal the election.
You can't blame the Palestinians for throwing Fatah out and hoping Hamas can lead to something better. While zealots are rarely prone to corruption, they don't tend to lead peaceful lives.
1. Those not paying attention, and
2. Those who thought Fatah would steal the election.
You can't blame the Palestinians for throwing Fatah out and hoping Hamas can lead to something better. While zealots are rarely prone to corruption, they don't tend to lead peaceful lives.
Manedwolf said:
+1
I feel that we should now hold them responsible if they commit any terrorist acts whether overtly or covertly. I think they will seriously change their appearance. I also expect a new Terrorist organization to emerge that Hammas will claim is "independent" of themselves. We shall see though.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
ManedWolf, I have a bit of difficulty in calling it a "legitimate election" when one of the parties is dedicated to genocide.
Art
Art
Optical Serenity
Member
carlrodd said:
+1 Haha... Now that is a great punch line!
axeman_g
Member
another example of people electing the goverment that they deserve.
I see a Palestine Civil War in the future. Syria and Iran on the Hamas side, Egypt and Jordan backing the Fatah. Watch out, this is going to get very interesting.
I see a Palestine Civil War in the future. Syria and Iran on the Hamas side, Egypt and Jordan backing the Fatah. Watch out, this is going to get very interesting.
spartacus2002
Member
Hey, Bush wanted to spread democracy to the Middle East.
The voters have spoken.
Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it
The voters have spoken.
Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it
Manedwolf said:
We blow them up?
When ever the new leadership takes any hostile action to Israel or the US the country is now fair game. It's obvious that's what the poster means. Leave it to America haters to try and come up with something otherwise.
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