Hammer Forged Barrels?

[KeithCo88]

I'm looking at mini 14s and heard that the tactical comes with a hammer forged barrel whereas the standard ranch rifle and other models don't. I've got a few questions:

1) is this true (Ruger's website isn't terribly detailed)?
2) does this really matter?
3) if it does really matter what's the physics behind it? Is it applicable because of the cartridge size (i.e. would a hammer forged barrel on a 10/22 be a waste of money) or something else?

Thanks
KeithCo88

 

[atblis]

First and foremost it is perhaps the cheapest way to crank out a whole bunch of barrels really fast. My opinion is that they came up with the supposed benefits later. A quality barrel is a quality barrel.

 

[BrocLuno]

Hammer forging (around a mandrel) can make a tougher barrel. But, plenty of precision barrels are button rifled, so it's more about the maker and the tolerances than the technique.

 

[kozak6]

I'm looking at mini 14s and heard that the tactical comes with a hammer forged barrel whereas the standard ranch rifle and other models don't. I've got a few questions:

1) is this true (Ruger's website isn't terribly detailed)?

Yes. Click on "Features" above the picture of the rifle.

It seems to be a feature of the entire current production Mini-14 series. I don't know if it's always been that way.

2) does this really matter?

Not particularly.

3) if it does really matter what's the physics behind it? Is it applicable because of the cartridge size (i.e. would a hammer forged barrel on a 10/22 be a waste of money) or something else?

It's a cheap way to make a reasonably good barrel. It's just that the tooling is rather expensive, so only the large manufacturers do it.

There's some stuff about blah blah blah work hardening blah blah blah grain of the metal, and while I'm not metallurgist, it seems to be debatable as to whether it actually makes any real difference. There's also some stuff about how it sets up blah blah blah residual stress in the metal, which is supposed to be bad. How bad? Debatable.

Found a neat link:
http://technology.calumet.purdue.ed...gazine - November- 2005 (Vol_ 53 - No_ 7).htm

 

[Z-Michigan]

All Ruger rifle barrels are hammer forged. I believe all their shotgun barrels and most or all of their handgun barrels are also.

In high round count applications, the greater durability of hammer-forged barrels is proven and has been for a long time. It is incidentally also the cheapest way to make large numbers of the same barrel design. As for accuracy, it is more than good enough for most uses down to about 3/4 MOA, where cut rifling seems to be beat all other options. For all but the highest precision applications the three common rifling methods are all quite comparable and accuracy depends more on quality of the barrel than on the rifling method.

 

[benzy2]

Single point cut rifling seems to get the best results, and be the most labor intensive to go along with the cost. Button rifling is cheapest on a small scale. The problem here is the button wears and if you get a barrel towards the end of the button's life, the barrel may not shoot that great. Hammer forged is cheap to turn out multiple barrels quickly, once you recover your initial millions on the machines. Honestly, anymore, short of match rifles, they all seem to shoot well. I wouldn't worry about how it's made as much as how well it was made.

 

[MachIVshooter]

As others have said, hammer forging is the fastest way for a manufacturer to spit out barrels, it's just the most expensive initial investment. That's why you find it with high volume production guns from major companies.

Basically, it's putting a steel blank on a mandrel die and pounding the snot out of it.

-Hammer forged barrels can be rifled in under a minute.

-Button rifling takes a few minutes

-Cut rifling can take hours

Benefit: They're a little tougher than button or cut rifled barrels of the same alloy, and so handle heat better

Detractor: Due to the nature of steel alloys (memory), hammer forged barrels will have the greatest discrepencies WRT inside diameter, which is why they're not known for producing the best accuracy when compared to button or especially cut rifled barrels. Only cut rifled barrels do not need to be stress relieved.

 

[Hopkins]

Steyr, hammer forged, accurate.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Due to the nature of steel alloys (memory), hammer forged barrels will have the greatest discrepencies WRT inside diameter, which is why they're not known for producing the best accuracy when compared to button or especially cut rifled barrels.

While I understand this on a theory level, it seems that many manufacturers, particular FN Herstal, Steyr, and SIG, are able to make hammer-forged barrels that shoot MOA on a reliable basis. FN SPR barrels are not only hammer-forged but chrome lined also, stacking two supposed detriments to accuracy, and you can still expect 3/4 MOA with appropriate ammo. Like so many things in mechanical devices, it's not only the basic process, but the quality control.

 

[JohnBT]

"FN Herstal, Steyr, and SIG"

And Sako.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Like so many things in mechanical devices, it's not only the basic process, but the quality control.

This is true. Just sayin, you won't see a BR rifle with a hammer forged or button rifled barrel. If you can afford it, cut rifled is the best.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Just sayin, you won't see a BR rifle with a hammer forged or button rifled barrel. If you can afford it, cut rifled is the best.

No argument there - for rifles that are trying to do better than about 3/4 MOA - basically benchrest and the finest "sniper" or precision rifles.

 

[USSR]

FN SPR barrels are not only hammer-forged but chrome lined also, stacking two supposed detriments to accuracy, and you can still expect 3/4 MOA with appropriate ammo.

Yep, their proprietary method of chrome-lining results in a very accurate barrel. Mine was .75MOA out of the box with factory Match ammo, and sub-.5MOA with handloads it likes.

Don

 

[Hopkins]

The Steyr SSG is a sniper rifle and has a hammer forged barrel and is .5 MOA or better.

 

[pacecars]

I have had 3 Steyr Mannlicher Model M Professionals and their hammer forged barrels all shot under an inch and these are sporter weight. One of the .270s shot consistantly under 1/4 inch. Should have kept that one.

 

[atblis]

Steyrs, Sakos, etc. are all accurate rifles certainly. I kind of suspect their excellent performance has more to do with the people behind it rather than simply the process. I'd wager that if you had the Austrians making cut rifled barrels, they'd be just as good or maybe even better.

 

[M_E_]

Hammer forged barrels are great - until they fail. We had a Remington 700PSS brought into our shop with a split barrel. No pressure signs anywhere. We had to take the rifle apart to remove the split case. Very little throat wear. Lands & groves were ALL very serviceable. The barrel finally quit & fractured the crystalline structure of the steel. It had just under 13,000 logged rounds fired using that barrel.

IMHO, the best made barrels available are Schneider poly button rifled barrels made in Payson, Arizona. Higher velocity than land & grooved with almost NO FOULING. I know a match shooter that did an entire 450 round match WITHOUT cleaning the rifle because it didn't need it!

 

[Z-Michigan]

That sounds like an anomaly, probably due to a defect in the steel or some unusual use. I've never before heard of a hammer-forged barrel fracturing unless there was a bore obstruction or massive overcharge.

 

[MachIVshooter]

IMHO, the best made barrels available are Schneider poly button rifled barrels made in Payson, Arizona. Higher velocity than land & grooved with almost NO FOULING. I know a match shooter that did an entire 450 round match WITHOUT cleaning the rifle because it didn't need it!

They aren't really polygonal. The lands have radiused edges, but they're still lands. You really couldn't make true poly rifling with a button. They just don't work that way. Has to be on a mandrel (or could be cut, though I'm not aware of any maker doing so).

 

[451 Detonics]

Excellent article on rifling methods...

http://firearmsid.com/Feature Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm

Savage is one of the few companies left that has not gone to hammer forging, I believe that is the reason Savage will regularly outshoot most other rifles out of the box. I have owned most major brands of rifles including several Steyr SSGs and a Model S and none of the would shoot better than a heavy barrel Savage fresh out of the box. The only rifles I have owned that would better the Savages had cut rifling barrels from custom makers.

As for the Rugers it is design more than the type of barrel manufacture that gives it somewhat mediocre accuracy. They can be made accurate with the factory barrel but it requires changing the basic barrel support design.

 

[KeithCo88]

Excellent article on rifling methods...

http://firearmsid.com/Feature Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm

Savage is one of the few companies left that has not gone to hammer forging, I believe that is the reason Savage will regularly outshoot most other rifles out of the box. I have owned most major brands of rifles including several Steyr SSGs and a Model S and none of the would shoot better than a heavy barrel Savage fresh out of the box. The only rifles I have owned that would better the Savages had cut rifling barrels from custom makers.

As for the Rugers it is design more than the type of barrel manufacture that gives it somewhat mediocre accuracy. They can be made accurate with the factory barrel but it requires changing the basic barrel support design.

@ 451 Detonics

You mean like those AcuStrut things they sell to supposedly stabilize the barrel?

 

[KeithCo88]

What about "heavy barrel" vs one that isn't heavy? Looking at gallery of guns it seems like some (or maybe all and its just bad data) of the Ruger Mini 14s have heavy barrels. is this true? and what's the impact of that?

 

[451 Detonics]

I have never messed with the Mini's that much but I have never really wanted to. The Mini's do exactly what they were designed to do, they will all shoot minute of felon at the 300 yards. I am an NRA Law Enforcement Instructor for rifle among other things. We had two people shooting Mini 14's for the course and the only way both of them could pass the qualifications was to borrow an AR. The instructor for the course said he had never had a Mini pass the headshot portion of the quals...they just would not group well enough.

I have seen Mini's that would shoot very well after they had a 3 point bedding system added as well as a good barrel.