Handgun advances

[ZVP]

I hope I can post this so it makes sense!
The other daughter day the technological advancements have moved ahead in corriuyspondence with the imminent possible foes that one might encounter other words single shot, single/5double action, semi auto etc. Being a revo
Very fan, I'm realizing just howvoutgunned I am with my E&aw model ,10'and 36!!!
With a modern semi auto.iAnyone else notice this also?
I hope the need never comes it's nice to haveva back up revolver.!
On top of this our Nation is becoming s powder keg with current racial tensions. I wish and pray for a peaceful solo
Until'!
Thanks for reading.

 

[JONWILL]

It is the person behind the gun that makes the difference.

Most criminals aren't avid shooters.

I think, might be wrong though, most gunfights are over in 3 rounds or less.

A revolver in the right hands is deadly.

It has the benefit of being able to shoot the next round with a pull of the trigger in case the round doesn't go off. The semi has to have the slide racked and chamber cleared before shooting again

The revolver is better suited to neglect. No oil, very little care. You can load a bone dry revolver and 50 years from now pull the trigger and it will fire as long as the ammo is good.

Load a semi the same way. The lubricant will gum up. The round might corrode and stick in the chamber.

 

[wgp]

The things you mention are true, and I still have and buy revolvers. But, what if there are more than one adversary, what if the first shots miss or are ineffective. I find it hard to dismiss the potential value of more rounds. The high-cap semi-auto has become my way to go.
What I see now is a bit different: there are new model pistols coming on the market all the time, and I'm sure they are all (mostly?) good ones. My system (I keep pistols with the same operating system in locations around the house) is set up for Glocks and while I keep my eye out for a new gun that would convince me to start over, and I have not found it. The Glock is not perfect but I like it, I'm used to it and its trigger and it works. The revolver-to-semiauto was a revolution, but semi-auto to newer semi-auto does not meet that criteria, for me. Whatever the "next big thing" is, I have not seen it yet.

 

[Tirod]

Bone dry an auto will still fire, it's actually the practice in arid climates to wipe down the gun and remove as much lubricant as possible as it will only attract more grit when wet. It certainly won't rust.

On the other hand in a cold wet environment - about half the US - no lube will be a serious issue. For practical self defense purposes either will do when the likelihood of shooting more than 6 times is limited. The double stack auto pistol was intended for use as a combat weapon, all military arms moved to larger capacity magazines across the board.

Once that happened then the LEO community started buying into the concept as they were proven designs and relatively inexpensive - you could bid them on contract and win. Once polymer frames were commonplace a revolver bid was overpriced - all polished steel and blued is an expensive way to make a gun. Those auto models like that weren't getting sales as much, either.

It is arguable that high capacity combat automatics in the hands of LEO's are a better answer, considering the tactics of fire that create collateral casualties in street conflicts. Like the half dozen cops who shot down a recalcitrant homeless guy in NYC and hit bystanders. Nonetheless we've gone down that road and in the process, the perps have too, and they will arm themselves with the same kind of guns they see the police using. It's an ego contest with them, not really a matter of tactical application. They aren't that good a shot, don't maintain their guns well, and their main tactic of ambush and shoot first is about the depth of their experience.

As far as internal strife goes, tho, we are hardly in the same place as the 60's or LA riots. It's that so many now living aren't used to that level which creates a fear of things at the level we see now. In those days we had the SLA robbing banks by the dozens to finance their movement. Today we have deep pocket political sources funding rioters - in some cases, reputedly, having the same bus pick up opponents to bus them in for demonstrations. That never happened in the past. Today's street conflicts are much more managed media affairs, and the media complicit with hiding that fact.

It's all orchestrated to make owning guns bad, and the people who own them appear evil.

 

[Sam1911]

I hope I can post this so it makes sense!

Well...barely! I'll try to decipher and edit for clarity:

The other daughter day the

No idea...

...technological advancements have moved ahead in correspondence with the imminent possible foes that one might encounter. [In] other words [we've moved from] single shot, single/double action, semi auto etc.

This might be conflating the development of technology with an increase in THREAT. And I don't think that's realistic. You could be jumped by 5 bad men in 1995, or in 1935, or in 1753, or 2537 BCE. The fact that we didn't have repeating firearms commonly until the 19th century didn't mean that threat scenarios which would make one very useful didn't exist.

And the fact that a bad guy might have a semi-auto handgun, today, doesn't make him especially more of a threat to you than if he had a revolver, or even just a knife in many cases.

Being a [revolver] fan, I'm realizing just how outgunned I am with my [S&W] model 10 and 36!!!
[Than?] with a modern semi auto. Anyone else notice this also?

No. You aren't "outgunned" with a revolver in any common civilian self-defense situation. The standard maxim is that defensive shooting tends toward "3 shots, at 3 yards, in 3 seconds." Your brain is still your primary self-defense tool. Your sidearm is the last, last, last line of defense and having a gun is far more important than having a particular kind of gun with a particularly large capacity.

I hope the need never comes [but] it's nice to have a back up revolver.!

Sure. And if you can carry a backup without a problem, that's wonderful. The odds are very very low you'll ever need to fire a shot, and many times less likely that you'd ever have your primary weapon fail or run dry and need to access a second gun, but if you need it you need it.

On top of this our Nation is becoming s powder keg with current racial tensions.

Media drivel. Our nation is not any closer to widespread bloodshed than at MANY other times in our history. Don't fall for the hype drummed up for clicks and ratings. As John Farnham has famously said, "Don't go stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things."
Violence is very unlikely to visit you if you can live by those simple rules.

 

[bassjam]

Media drivel. Our nation is not any closer to widespread bloodshed than at MANY other times in our history. Don't fall for the hype drummed up for clicks and ratings. As John Farnham has famously said, "Don't go stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things."
Violence is very unlikely to visit you if you can live by those simple rules.

Quoted because it needs to be said again.

And I'm always very comfortably carrying a 5 shot revolver. I do have a 8 shot single stack 9, but my opinion is if those 3 extra rounds are really needed, I'm probably screwed regardless. Any way you look at it I'm still using a handgun which is just a relatively low powered close quarters defensive weapon.

 

[BigBore44]

Well my head hurts now. But I THINK I got the gist. Carry a revolver, carry a semi-auto. Regardless, you're armed. More bullets doesn't equal more hits.

About 20 years ago in Tulsa there was a shootout between two officers (a Lt. and a certified firearms instructor) and two perps. The shootout totaled something like 47 rounds at 10-12 feet. Not a single round between either of the groups resulted in a hit. And that's at 10-12 FEET not YARDS. It's still a story told between some of the older officers. The Lt. eventually became chief of police.

So carry what you want. But practice to make your shots count. Don't just assume you can hit your target because you go to a range, set up a paper target, and take slow, well aimed shots and can hit hit your target. Practice drawing and firing on multiple targets quickly. Also, know your target and what's beyond it. And like Sam1911 said, quoting John Farnham "Don't go to stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things". That is BEYOND good advice.

 

[entropy]

I hope I can post this so it makes sense!
The other daughter day the technological advancements have moved ahead in corriuyspondence with the imminent possible foes that one might encounter other words single shot, single/5double action, semi auto etc. Being a revo
Very fan, I'm realizing just howvoutgunned I am with my E&aw model ,10'and 36!!!
With a modern semi auto.iAnyone else notice this also?
I hope the need never comes it's nice to haveva back up revolver.!
On top of this our Nation is becoming s powder keg with current racial tensions. I wish and pray for a peaceful solo
Until'!
Thanks for reading.

Not really. Did you post from a phone? The gun is a tool. The mind is the weapon.

 

[Kendal Black]

You are only outgunned if you miss.

 

[cslinger]

Is more ammo better, of course you'd have to be a fool not to accept that. Will you regret having 18-20 rounds in a Glock 17 if you only fire off 2 rounds? Absolutely not.

All that being said it's the nut behind the trigger and we always talk about multiple attackers and such in a manner that said multiple attackers are steely eyed killing machines with Mohawks and buttless chaps from the Road Warrior.

The reality tends to be nobody wants get shootified and once bullets start flying all parties tend to remember they left the Iron on and they need to get home NOW.

Watching cam footage and knowing a bit about our local PDs experience etc. the above is more often then not the case.

Now again......could their be a determined attacker(s)? Of course, could there be a drugged up attacker? Of course. But you simply have to weigh your real world risks vs your mitigation strategy and basically pays your money and takes your chances.

If we get too worked up with what ifs it can be analysis paralysis what if I don't have a 17 round mag.......what if I do but the mag fails......etc. etc.

More is better and will never be missed. More doesn't mean you will prevail or Mr. Murphy doesn't have in for you that day.

I personally would be way more scared of the old guy, who doesn't give a crap anymore and has a 5 shot snub he has owned for decades the a sideways firing gangbanger with a Glock.

 

[Schwing]

I think, sometimes, we get inside our own heads a little on this. Most days I find myself carrying a 5 shot .38. It isn't that I wouldn't like to carry an anti-aircraft gun in my pocket but I work in an environment where anything larger than my .38 would be difficult.

At home I, admittedly irrationally, find myself placing semi-autos with high capacity magazines in my quick go-to safes and recently even bought another 9mm carbine and an AR-15. "What if there are multiple intruders?" "What if it is social unrest or rioting?" It probably isn't even rational but it helps me sleep better.

I just practice a lot with the guns I would possibly use for self defense and try my best to never need them. As far as the social unrest thing goes, I have to disagree as well. I find some of it even ludicrous. When I think of one of my happy places, I think of my local outdoor range. There I interact with white folks, black folks, Mormon folks, Jewish folks, Atheist folks and even several liberal folks. Somehow, that range has managed to be open for 99 years and none of us "Angry gun nuts" has shot anyone over any kind of racial/religious/political disagreement.

Maybe guns ARE the solution

 

[cslinger]

As far as societal unrest/riots/multiple attackers.

The best real world examples of this would be....
The LA Riots
Katrina
Fergison
Baltimore.

I can't think of any pitched battles that happened in any of them. The closest would probably be the Koreans protecting their stores from the roof during LA and even then they would likely have been served just as well with a few bolt action hunting rifles as again as soon as you become the target that wins the other guy the Cupie doll.....the carnival is over.

Again this is not a "YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU CARRY 15, 20, 30 ROUNDS OR EVEN DRAG AROUND A BELTFED". I am just pointing out even in the situations where for all intents and purposes the rule of law went out the window, you still only typically saw pot shots or very small exchanges of fire, that in many cases was random.

Could another LA bank robbery happen? Sure could. Isn't it super likely you will be involved and can't get the hell out of dodge probably not.

Point is in my real world experience (which is small) the one thing I have seen pay the most dividends is "have a gun." Period, end of story, any gun. Know how to passably shoot it.

 

[cslinger]

Now as an excuse to buy new toys.........heck mutant, ninja, zombie grizzly bears......ohhh they're out there and they are working for the U.N. .

 

[Sam1911]

Indeed.

While there's highly sensationalized reporting of widely scattered and very small scale violence among protesters at political rallies, or a handful of participants in the (rather tame) riots we've had after a few police incidents and court cases recently, nothing at all would indicate that you're likely to be tangled up in such a thing unless you WANT to be. If you're a protester, looking to duke it out with the other side on the steps of the courthouse, please leave your guns at home and take the beating you so richly deserve.

For the rest of us, avoiding such situations is as easy as paying just a little attention to what's going on in your city or around you and resisting the temptation to try to head downtown to "help."

There is no plausible scenario by which you're going to be out on the streets with your sidearm and end up in a running gun battle. Nor one wherein the people on the other side (of whichever side you think you're on) are going to come find you and invade your neighborhood and attack you.

These events are not random and do not take place just anywhere. And they pretty universally don't involve random folks just trying to mind their own business who somehow wound up in the wrong place at the wrong time. And being "outgunned" has nothing to do with avoiding and/or surviving such a situation.

 

[Kano383]

I hope I can post this so it makes sense!
The other daughter day the technological advancements have moved ahead in corriuyspondence with the imminent possible foes that one might encounter other words single shot, single/5double action, semi auto etc. Being a revo
Very fan, I'm realizing just howvoutgunned I am with my E&aw model ,10'and 36!!!
With a modern semi auto.iAnyone else notice this also?
I hope the need never comes it's nice to haveva back up revolver.!
On top of this our Nation is becoming s powder keg with current racial tensions. I wish and pray for a peaceful solo
Until'!
Thanks for reading.

ZVP, what is your original language? I understand a few languages, curious if I could help with the translation...

 

[Rexster]

ZVP, what is your original language? I understand a few languages, curious if I could help with the translation...

I think auto-correct was part of the problem.

 

[Rexster]

ZVP, you are quite well-armed with S&W Models 10 and 36, if your skill level is good, you remain alert and aware, and avoid places where angels fear to tread. After retiring from police work, perhaps as soon as next year, I may well revert to carrying two revolvers, much of the time, even though I live in a metropolitan area with a diverse population of about four million. Quite simply, I shoot a Ruger GP100 or S&W K/L-Frame revolver better than any other handgun, except perhaps a 1911 pistol. I shoot an SP101 slightly better than a baby Glock. I feel that the longer stroke of each double-action trigger pull allows me to self-correct errors, even when firing very quickly, and that the longer stroke, being more of a gross motor skill, is more stress-proof.

Work on speed-loading, using dummy cartridges. Carry speed-loaders, and also have the capabilty of single-loading and double-loading.

Nobody prevails in a gunfight by standing still and emptying multiple magazines at multiple opponents. Shoot, move, communicate, in whatever order is dictated by the circumstances, and repeat each as necessary. Check the cylinder often, and feed chambers as necessary.

 

[olafhardtB]

I love guns, I love to shoot guns, I like to have plenty of guns and ammo around. I often sleep with one or more in the bed. I don't feel at all threatened at all ,not because of the guns but just because I dont feel threatened at all. The guns don't protect me, I have them because I love guns. Collect what you like or don't collect at all. Me, I love guns.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Well...barely! I'll try to decipher and edit for clarity:

Media drivel. Our nation is not any closer to widespread bloodshed than at MANY other times in our history. Don't fall for the hype drummed up for clicks and ratings. As John Farnham has famously said, "Don't go stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things."
Violence is very unlikely to visit you if you can live by those simple rules.

Really? Since when has our country had the amount of "Gang Violence" throughout the country like it is today? Drugs increasing all the Time, Gangs growing all the time. BLM and others burning down cities, rioting, looting. Look at what happened to South American. Over have the Supreme Court Judges killed, hundreds of Payed off Politicians, Military leaders payed off. Hundreds of Building blown away, and on and on. Now look where the Drug Cartels are. Mexico and coming across the border all the time and right into the gang movements across America supplying drugs and Guns. Mexican drug cartels are 10 times more powerful than Pablo Escabar every dreamed. The racial divide is increasing every day. Look at places of high crime, Baltimore, areas gone crazy like Chicago, LA. and on and on. If you want to believe that times are like those in the times like the 50's then go ahead. My 87 year old and very active Lady will no longer go into her Home town any more as the whole area has been taken over. Just look at these statistics alone for just one area. More like a war zone.

I do not carry a lot of mags. I understand that the biggest Threat is just getting out of the car at the mall, etc. One on one over quickly. I do carry a single stack 9 in the winter with a reliable pocketgun backup.
Do I believe the violence will get worse. Yes, I am not blind. I see it increasing every day. I saw my Mothers and My home town become like a cancer that is continuing to grow to the city we moved away from. I have seen schools become shambles, drugs and gangs increasing all the time. I watched on the National News as a group of animals tried to burn down the town we now live in.

Here are just a few stats from one area.

Check it out.

http://heyjackass.com/

 

[Sam1911]

Really? Since when has our country had the amount of "Gang Violence" throughout the country like it is today?Many times and many places. Consider New York CIty, circa Drugs increasing all the Time, Gangs growing all the time. BLM and others burning down cities, rioting, looting. Look at what happened to South American. Over have the Supreme Court Judges killed, hundreds of Payed off Politicians, Military leaders payed off. Hundreds of Building blown away, and on and on. Now look where the Drug Cartels are. Mexico and coming across the border all the time and right into the gang movements across America supplying drugs and Guns. Mexican drug cartels are 10 times more powerful than Pablo Escabar every dreamed. The racial divide is increasing every day. Look at places of high crime, Baltimore, areas gone crazy like Chicago, LA. and on and on. If you want to believe that times are like those in the times like the 50's then go ahead. My 87 year old and very active Lady will no longer go into her Home town any more as the whole area has been taken over. Just look at these statistics alone for just one area. More like a war zone.

If that's how you see it, I'm certainly not going to "fact" you out of it. And this isn't a thread, nor a forum, dedicated to debating crime rates or statistics in the sort of depth needed to do so.

Let's say opinions vary and it would be wise to understand statistics and turn down the scale to which one takes the nightly news to heart.

Don't go to stupid places, at stupid times, with stupid people, to do stupid things -- keep your eyes open, and you're very very unlikely to end up a violence statistic.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Stupid people like the young man that was shot three times in the chest. Yes he was at a very nice Park on July 4th with his family. Very nice neighborhood. Some jerk came over from the basket ball court while he as cooking steaks. This criminal came over and wanted one, the family guy refused. When MY family were leaving, at the same time as his family, they entered the parking lot and the piece of scum walked up and shot him three times in the chest. Not something you want your family to witness. Were they in a stupid place? Were they and all the families just stupid? No, Please do not infer that they are.
I will agree with you, this is not the place for statistics. It is about Reality. And if you think that only bad things happen to stupid people, in stupid places doing stupid things, they your guard is way off. The Monster can raise his ugly head any where any time.
Yes, the odds against violence is on your side. And you can, if you do have any common sense reduce the odds. Just like a Home Alarm System. Yes, go play the odds that it will not happen to you. I was in the industry for three decades and Know that not having one is Not the odds I will bet on.
And by the way, I do not watch the nightly news. Especially the Propaganda channels. I hate the local news. A constant viewing of the same faces over and over every night doing the same kind of violent crimes which we all have should take very seriously.

 

[BSA1]

Up until February, 2016 I thought my 5 shot J-Frame revolver was enough for my self-defense.

No longer. Trained terrorists funded by foreign countries are launching attacks in France, England and other Christian nations. Terrorism is on the rise in America. It just isn't politically correct for the politicians and the media to call these violent attacks for what they really are. Work place shootings and lone wolf (actually sleeper cells) attacks are becoming common. The uncontrolled Southern border is rife with unhindered drug trafficking and illegals crossing into the U.S.

The automobile is becoming the weapon of choice. Five or six shots from a 38 Special just isn't enough. Multiple rounds of a heavier bullet such as 9mm Critical Duty and 147 gr. are needed to give adequate penetration through automobiles and trucks. Slated windshields are surprisingly difficult to penetrate. The best hope in a automobile attack is to disable the driver to reduce the body count of dead and injured people.

Sam makes a point that we are no closer to widespread bloodshed than previous times in history. I respectfully disagree. We have well organized Media, Democrats and Republicans in Washington committed to destroying President Trump anyway they can, whether it through legal or illegal means. Maintaining their power it not the most important thing, it is the only thing. The divide between liberal and conservative States has not been greater since the 1850's.

It requires a different mindset to carry a full-size handgun with sufficient power and ammunition capacity to stop a determined attacker(s). While the likelihood of being involved in a mass attack may seem low the fact is when you need the firepower you need it now! There will not be enough time to go back home or to the gun store.

 

[Sam1911]

Stupid people like the young man that was shot three times in the chest. Yes he was at a very nice...

Well, if we didn't all understand that truly random violence CAN happen to anybody anywhere at some quite low statistical rate, then we wouldn't be here discussing carrying defensive firearms, would we?

My objection is to the overheated perception and hype surrounding the "rising tide of violence!!!" that we get so sucked into believing in. When reality says we're actually in a continuing slide to lower and lower violent crime rates all the time and that the vast (VAST) majority of the violent crime which does exist occurs in extremely specific populations and locations ... and to be honest, certain activities.

Not a gang member? Not a drug dealer (or maybe user)? Don't live in certain parts of large metro areas? Don't hang out with people who do? Don't participate in highly charged political/social protests? Don't participate in highly charged political/social ANTI-protests?
Then your odds of needing A gun are low, and your odds of needing a high-capacity weapon and multiple reloads are astronomically lower.

 

[Sam1911]

Respectfully, BSA, if you're carrying specifically to be prepared to stop a truck attack, or a terrorist shoot-up then you probably are worrying about the wrong things. Sure, they COULD happen, but looking to statistics, the idea that you'd be in the right (wrong?) place at the exact moment that one of these hyper uncommon events takes place, and that you shooting the driver is the required plan of action are about equal to the likelihood of catching fire while falling from a high rise building while simultaneously being eaten by a shark.

Sure, you have to have some concept of the "stakes" but the odds play a huge part. If I wanted to prepare specifically for such extremely unlikely situations I'd logically also need to carry a life preserver, an AED, a fire extinguisher, a parachute, and probably GOAT repellent, so I could meet the various threats all far more likely to kill me.

 

[Sam1911]

We have well organized Media, Democrats and Republicans in Washington committed to destroying President Trump anyway they can, whether it through legal or illegal means. Maintaining their power it not the most important thing, it is the only thing.

Good grief. Read some US history, man. That's about as "new" as sliced bread. Actually, far older. Faction and party have pushed men to try do utterly destroy and discredit each other since shortly after our nation's founding (assuming we're going to limit this to OUR nation).

And it doesn't have anything I can see to do with what you'd carry as a personal defense sidearm. Gee, the Democrats are saying nasty things about Trump! Oh, I'd better switch to a high-cap gun!

Work place shootings and lone wolf (actually sleeper cells) attacks are becoming common.

Really? How common? Put it in terms of deaths or injuries per unit of population. Then tell me how worried I should be about these.

The uncontrolled Southern border is rife with unhindered drug trafficking and illegals crossing into the U.S.

And very little of that would have any impact on you and your personal safety. It might affect how expensive it is for you to have your lawn mowed, but "illegals" and "murderers" are two populations with only the most tangential of overlap. Calling them "illegals" instead of "undocumented workers" or what ever the dems call them make it sound like they'd be equally likely to mop the floor of the Dairy Queen as to cut off your head and drink beer from your skull. Despite what the politicians would tell you in order to get your vote, folks coming here illegally are vastly coming here to work and send some money home to families. They aren't coming to the USA because the killin' is better over here.