handloading 7.62 x 39

[bender]

I loaded up 50 of these yesterday. It was the first time I've done any reloading in around 15 years. I've forgotten some details, such as adjusting dies, etc.

The reloads all look great. I used my old Lee Turret press, and Lee dies. "Dupont" 4198 (an old can!) and winchester .310 123gr FMJ bullets.

I bought these Lee dies way back in 1990 or so, but have never used them until yesterday. It's a 3-die set, but I only used the resizer/expander & the seater die. The other die is a FC die, which I've never used before and wasn't really sure what to do with it. Since I was using new cases, I just expanded the necks.

I got my seater die adjusted so that the bullets were seated right to the middle of the cannelure, and just a little crimp, but not much. I tested them by pressing the bullets in the loaded cartridges down on the table top, to see if I was able to move the bullets in. They stayed were they were, COL didn't change.

I'm wondering what exactly the factory crimp die does? Does it just do a slight taper crimp? How do you adjust your normal seater die to not crimp? I assume you would back-out the die a little, and then screw in the seater plug a little so as to keep the COL the same.

Also, there's no "top" on my FC die. When you look down inside it, you see the sections of the crimper. Is that the way its supposed to be? Looks like there's something missing in the die...

thanks for any comments on using Lee FC dies...!

 

[Grumulkin]

Though other's techniques vary, I rarely size new cases.

The Lee factory crimp die has a collet that compresses the end of the neck to crimp it. Adjust the press so the shellholder contacts the sleeve that comes out of the bottom of the die. By adjusting the pressure exerted there, you will adjust the amount of crimp the die produces but don't do it excessively since it will only crimp so much. The "no top" on the die is the way it's supposed to be.

To adjust the seater die to not crimp, back the die out a bit and the seater portion in as you guess to keep the cartridge overall length the same without crimping.

For the cartridge you are reloading, I wouldn't even bother crimping. The recoil thereof is so mild that the crimp really doesn't get you anything. I don't crimp cartridges up to 30/06 and 7mm Mag. I do crimp 458 Lott cartridges and heavy recoiling handgun cartridges such as 460 S&W Mag. that will be shot in a revolver.

Another thing about crimping. With the factory crimp die, you can crimp any bullet anywhere; you don't need a cannelure. When crimping the the seating die, you have to crimp in a cannelure.

 

[bender]

ok thanks Grumulkin. I was wondering if something was missing out of the FC die, since I could see down in it.

Next time I reload some 7.62x39's, I'll probably back out the seater die a little, then screw in the seater plug to make up for it. That'll give me less crimp, or maybe even none.

I'll try out the FC die too, just to see how it works.

thanks!

 

[silhanek]

Here here is a link that might help from Lee's website.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/TP2131.pdf

On the bullet seater/crimper die, you usually get a round you want to replicate. With the die in that station removed, put it in the press and run the ram all the way up. Make sure the bullet dept knob is screwed way out. Then screw the die down until it makes contact. At that point, you should have zero crimp and can run the bullet depth knob down until it touches the tip of the bullet. Depending on the crimp you want, you then lower the ram down and screw the die in another 1/4 to 3/4 turn.


These videos might help on Lee's sight too. The die adjustment videos are decent.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1152376650.4550=/html/HelpVideos/video.html

 

[bender]

that sounds like a good way.

Since I hadn't reloaded in over 15 years, the first case I seated a bullet (an empty "test" case), I buckled the neck... oops... threw that case away. adjusted the die out, and the next one was just right...

but the way silhanek detailed, is alot better... I wouldn't have trashed a case that way

 

[Gewehr98]

Bad idea.

For the cartridge you are reloading, I wouldn't even bother crimping.

If he's feeding that handloaded 7.62x39 ammo into an AK, SKS, or Mini-30 rifle, then by all means continue to crimp those bullets firmly into the cases.

None of the above 7.62x39 delivery systems are particularly gentle or kind to ammo as it's being fed from the magazine into the chamber. The last thing you want is bullet setback on a round because the crimp was too light or non-existant. Trust me, I've seen it happen in my own AK rifles w/handloads. Autoloaders like some form of crimp or asphalt bullet sealant. The latter isn't commercially available to handloaders.

 

[bender]

They're for my SKS. I also plan to buy a CZ Model 527 Carbine bolt rifle, in 7.62x39 before the end of the year... I like the caliber, a perfect "middle" caliber.

One thing about my Lee dies, they can rotate a little. It never bothered me way back when, but now, once I get the dies exactly the way I want them... I'd like a real lock ring on them, instead of the rubber Lee thingies...

I'll get a bunch from Midway on my next order...

 

[R.W.Dale]

Lyman OR RCBS for 7.62x39.. Why? Because they should come with a .380 and .311 expander ball

 

[bender]

actually the Lee 7.62x39 die set that I am using (bought over 15 years ago) also came with both expander sizes. I installed the bigger one, which is .311, since I plan to shoot .310 bullets...

Only quibble about Lee dies is the rubber o-ring lock rings. I'm buying 8 Hornady Sure-Lock rings to replace all my Lee seater die rings with.

I really like the 7.62x39 cartridge. Too bad american rifle companies don't make rifles for it... except for the mini-30... but that one's supposedly not very accurate.

 

[rbernie]

None of the above 7.62x39 delivery systems are particularly gentle or kind to ammo as it's being fed from the magazine into the chamber.

G98 speaks the truth - you really need to crimp bullets being fed thru autoloaders. I use the Lee factory crimp die because it lets me set the OAL where it works best for the rifle/load combination, not just where the bullet manufacturer happened to put a cannelure.

I've actually converted a bunch of money into noise trying to determine if crimping my 7.62x39 handloads (shot thru an AR) had a negative impact on accuracy. If there's a degredation in accuracy, I can't find it in this rifle and with me behind it using at least three different powders and six different bullets from 123gr to 180gr.

Too bad american rifle companies don't make rifles for it...

DPMS and a bunch of others wil gladly sell you an AR chambered in 7.62x39.

I bolted this one together, and so far it's got a couple of deer and a handful of hogs (125lb-500lb) to its credit. It's been my most-favorite rifle for a while now; not too much of anything and just enough of everything...

 

[bender]

Too bad american rifle companies don't make rifles for it...

DPMS and a bunch of others wil gladly sell you an AR chambered in 7.62x39.

hmmm... I didn't know that. I learn something every day here on THR

In this case, I was meaning nice, bolt rifles.. like hunting rifles... I want one nice bolt action rifle to use to learn how to shoot accurately, and use a scope. All my rifles are old milsurps... and I love them all. I just want one nice, modern, bolt rifle... and since I'm trying to avoid getting "yet another caliber to reload" I thought to get a bolt 7.62x39 since I already load it for my SKS. CZ makes the Model 527 in that caliber.

All the remingtons, and other american rifle companies... when they go on sale cheap at Cabela's, Academy, or where-ever, they don't come in 7.62x39.

 

[Grumulkin]

I've loaded for several autoloaders including an SKS and have never crimped the bullets and have never had a problem with any of them.

 

[steve4102]

I've loaded for several autoloaders including an SKS and have never crimped the bullets and have never had a problem with any of them.

How would you know if you had a problem unless you removed each and every round after it was cycled through the action and took a measurement?? Try it sometime, load up a couple of rounds and do NOT crimp with the LFCD. Cycle them through the action, remove and measure. I think you will be surprised as to how far the bullet has moved forward due to the round being slammed into the chamber.

As we all know consistency is Key to accuracy, yes? Yes. If the COL does not remain constant then accuracy can and will suffer. Keeping the bullet locked into place is essential to accuracy.

 

[Gewehr98]

It's not the bullet jump that scares me.

It's the bullet setback in the case that raises the hair on my neck. Before I went with a healthy crimp on my 7.62x39 handloads, I'd seen many where the bullet was pushed back into the case with the nose almost flush with the case mouth. Nor did those setback rounds always fail to feed, I caught them because the bolt didn't sound "right" when cycling. Had I pulled the trigger, those higher-pressure loads would've fired, I'm certain. Granted, the guns are proofed, but why take unnecessary risks to life and limb?

 

[WayneConrad]

My experience matches Gewehr98's. The SKS has a feed ramp that might properly be called a "feed cliff." I think it's magical that the bullet can get past that and into the chamber.

I had an incipient head separation caused by bullet setback. This is the event that prompted me to always crimp my 7.62x39.

 

[bender]

I need to resurrect this old thread. I tried reloading some 7.62x39 today, and after a couple hours, only got about 10 or 12 done...

I was using the Lee 3-die set (the set with the FC die). I tried to get the normal seater die to do the crimp correctly, but was having some trouble.

When I had the die adjusted to where it was just a little roll crimp, and the bullet was the exact correct depth (COL was correct), I could pretty easily move the bullet deeper by pressing it down on my reloading bench.

I could not get a tighter crimp. When I tried moving the seater die down a TINY bit, it would start to buckle the neck a little...

Then I decided to back out the seater die, so that the bullet was being seated correctly, but not crimped...

then I would try the FC die (which I have never used before). It puts kind of a ring around the case mouth... like its crimping too much maybe... ? However, the bullets are in nice & tight.. finally... can't move them in easily by pressing them down on the reloading bench.

I was wondering what is making the ring around the case mouth... is the FC die down a little too far? I'm not at my bench now (I reload at a buddy's house).

 

[aka108]

I reload 7.62x39 for use in a Ruger 77 bolt action I own. Cost is about the same as the Russian ammo. Use the Russian stuff in the AK and SK types. Don't like chasing down the empties.

 

[highlander 5]

I have a Ruger M77 MKII in 7.62x39 i I use the smaller expander ball .308 dia and a lihgt crimp. all my bullets jacketed and cast are.3105-.311 so the extra tight neck and light crimp holds bullets quite snogly. and my case life seems to be fine

 

[WayneConrad]

Bender, Are you able to post a picture of a problem round?

Does the round fit in a max cartridge gauge? Does it chamber in the rifle?

 

[bender]

the cases are at someone else's house. I reload over there. Can't post a pic.

Well, in my long-winded post up above, I was trying to say that I finally got some pretty tight crimps... using the Lee FC die, instead of crimping with the regular seater die. However, looking at the loaded cartridge, I can see what looks like the collet in the FC die pressed very hard about 1.5 millimeters below the mouth of the case. I'm happy that the bullets are tight now, but that "crimp ring" near the case mouth is kinda ugly...

Since I never used a FC die before, I was asking if it seems that maybe the FC die needs to be raised up slightly... ?

The "ring" I was mentioning is not a 'incipient head separation...", its like a "squeezed" indentation right below the case mouth. I haven't used these FC dies before, and don't know much about setting them correctly. It seems that to get any crimp at all, the die is way down in my lee turret, and the shell holder hits it way before the ram is at the top of the stroke...

I probably won't be at my reloading bench (at a friend's house) until next weekend again...

but thanks for any tips & comments!!

 

[WayneConrad]

Just so there's no confusion, I ought to mention that I never thought you had an incipient head separation. I mentioned it as the event that caused me to insist upon crimping my 7.62x39.

 

[bender]

ok, I see that now. I was replying last time while I was at work... and didn't read very closely.

BTW: the brass I'm using is brand new Winchester brass, bought at sportsman's warehouse. I have to say, its the worst quality new brass I've ever purchased. Many of the case mouths are dented very badly and some of them are even sharply folded or creased. I've thrown away about 5 already, and I'm less than half through the bag of 50.