Happened to my brother - What would you do?

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You brother did better then 75% of folks posting here (myself included) would likely do. He used minimum force to protect himself.
I have delt with one local gent who thankfully moved. Seems when he was off meds he learned he was needed on Mars to help them. He took a shotgun from neighbor and said neighbor asked me to come over with him and get his shotgun back. I REFUSED and told him call 911 and tell them EVERYTHING .
Well he got a idiot to go with him so two gents with shotguns (both 160lb dripping wet) after a 6'3" 300lb looney toon with shotgun (thankfully he didn't have any shells.) They wind up rolling in yard and THEN call Sheriff.
Worst thing IMO is they told Deputy that they had talked to me (in vein I told them to go get their shotgun back) So Sheriff/Deputy was upset with me. I was able to straiten that out finally. (course they still said I should have called them but I felt I was NOT involved "didn't want to be" so why give 3rd hand info when folks involved were SUPPOSED to call?)
 
I never said don't defend yourself, just that he had, just what might have been the aftermath if he had used deadly force.

A good shoot, is a good shoot is a good shoot, but then the silliness starts.

Like, a gentleman south of where I live had the same illness as the fella in the first post. He went off his meds and attacked his neighbor, who on his cell phone called the popo. While on the phone and ushering his family into the basement for protection, this truly whacko, dives through tiny basement window head first, and advances on the guys family. The "defender" advised the nutcase that he has a gun and do not come any further or he will shoot. One gun shot was recorded and then the popo showed up. Hell every badge in a 15 mile area hauled ass to that house. About as good a shoot as I have ever read about.

Aftermath


Defender was arrested for murder, then charged with manslaughter.

Body was autopsied for cause of death (silly, I know like every one couldn’t figure of that the big a$$ gunshot wound in his chest wasn't the cause, but it's the way the machine works)

Pistol was taken away and a ballistics test was done to insure that the gun that "defender†said he used was the pistol used in the shooting. (again silly but the machine works like that)

Defender was interviewed 18 times right after the shooting by 18 different badges asking the same questions.

Played court games for a few days and some DA tried to make a name for themselves pushed the case.

Case tossed out of court due the overwhelming evidence on “defender†side, (the 911 call is IMO saved his ass)

The SBI still tried to keep “defender†pistol and the county sheriff was asked to intervene.


If you shoot some one, this will happen, about 99 out of a 100 times. My advise and the advise of a judge I have spoken to, suggested this if you have to use deadly force. When the police arrive, shed some tears , say that you just did some thing that you never thought you would have to do, and that you will answer any questions and help in any way you can, but you will do it through your lawyer, and don’t say a damm thing else.
 
When the cops show up they get one statement:

"I was in fear for my life and the life of my wife and Kids, I would like to speak to my lawyer NOW..."


MaceWindu
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I gotta agree, that's just about the exact words I'd use. and nothing more.
 
Never make eye contact - never!
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Wow. I'm glad I've just read some good explanations of WHY, because I look people in the eye always. I've always been told that it's respectful to look at those with whom you are conversing in the eye... but I guess you never know if they've got a mental illness or not.

I'll have to change that, I suppose.

Wes
 
I disagree about avoiding eye contact. What I've found to work the best is giving the person a slow, calm glance every so often just to let them know you're paying attention. You don't want to stare, but you don't want to act like you're totally ignoring them either. Don't make any quick moves one way or the other.

Appear to be very calm. :)

John

P.S. - I haven't seen very many people with actual multiple personalities in the past 30 years (32 counting grad school), but they're fascinating folks. One personality will need to wear glasses and another won't. One will appear to have serious personality problems and another won't. One personality will limp and the next one won't. If it isn't real then they should be in the movies and stop wasting their talent on people like me.
 
There is a difference in making eye contact in conversation , and making eye contact. :scrutiny:
Hard to explain, but you can tell when someone is paying attention or when someone is paying "too much attention".

Granted some folks with problems don't require much of anything to set them off. Violence, cowering in corner sobbing, whatever.

It is not just folks in Medical , LEO , Legal that run across folks like this.

What about the folks pan-handling around your grocery store. The homeless near the intersections in a neighborhood, around the back way to pick up a child at school.

I just consider this thread, sharing of experiences,, of professionals [ not me ] a "heads up"... , just another tool in the toolbox, Labeled : Education.

One can better defend if the foe is identified / understood and the legal paremeters defined.

This includes protecting an individual from themself.
 
Apparently, I can't spell schizophrenic.
Doesn't matter. And yes, the facts are as I say.
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Ah, but the REAL question is, can the voices spell it?



BTW, welcome aboard!




Oh, and clean up your spelling, willya? :D


;)
 
In my opinion, after a justified shooting in self defense, you should merely say to the police officer, "I was forced to shoot in defense of my life." Then politely state that you need to speak to your lawyer before you say anything else.
 
Two responses

1) "I was in fear of my life" [ then "I" shut up]

2) "I am sure the voices you hear are real to you - no, I do not hear them".*

[* This is the correct response to give in the event someone with Mental Health problems should ask you. As per various Medical Professions.

posted for the benefit of a member whom didn't feel comfortable posting to ask.
 
Heh - I just realized I didn't answer the original poster's question, at all :)

I think that your brother did the right thing, all the way through. Except he should have found out what he could about the disorder before approaching the individual. At least he'd have a clue about what's going on when something starts going on :)

Otherwise, he tried to be nice, then he tried to escape & evade, then he fought back.

It sounds like a lousy situation, and I can imagine if your brother feels bad. But your brother should remeber that it wasn't him that started the bad part of the confrontation, and he is responsible for protecting himself from attack, regardless of the state of mind of the attacker.
 
Well, my crazy neighbor was out on his front porch as I was taking my trash out to the curb.

He said very matter-of-factly "Well, I think the Secretary of State just puts me in a bottle."


:scrutiny:


Apparently, I can't spell schizophrenic.
Doesn't matter. And yes, the facts are as I say.
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I hope I didn't leave you with the impression that I thought you where being less then honest.

Oh and http://www.spellcheck.net/ lets you copy/paste a block of text into it and you can spell check :)


I disagree about avoiding eye contact. What I've found to work the best is giving the person a slow, calm glance every so often just to let them know you're paying attention.
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Yeah, with "normal" people you're probably right, but I believe they where refering to Schizophrenics.


In my opinion, after a justified shooting in self defense, you should merely say to the police officer, "I was forced to shoot in defense of my life." Then politely state that you need to speak to your lawyer before you say anything else.
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I agree ... the way I've heard it stated is "every word you say will cost you more money and headaches"
 
It occurs to me that I've known a multiple personality case, and I've known another person who recovered from very long-term methamphetamine abuse and as a remaining side effect, had to avoid ordinary caffiene (yes, coffee/soda/tea) at all costs, or they went completely babbling loony :scrutiny:.

And those are NOT the weirdest individuals I've known. I've known two others that weren't mentally ill, they were even scarier. I refuse to talk about them until I know both are dead of a ripe old age. (They've each got about 20 years on me, so I've got a book waiting eventually...)
 
I worked at CA's maximum security state hospital for the criminally insane for 20 yrs.I always made direct eye contact when dealing with a patient.Tell your brother to move tomorrow.It will be the safest thing to do.This guy is not going to change, the risk of serious assault is great.Moving tomorrow will be far cheaper than his legal fees if he has to stop this guy.As has been stated contact an attorney.But the main advice, even if you have to max out your credit card is MOVE NOW!!!
 
I've worked as a psychiatric RN for the past 13 years and I always make eye contact and keep a calm demeanor when dealing with agitated patients. True multiple personalities are extremely rare. I've taken care of two in my career; that's 2 out of thousands of patients over the years. And I work at a high acuity, publicly funded, Baker Act receiving facility.
If I were your brother, before I went through the hassle of moving, I'd be calling the police trying to have this guy Baker-Acted (72 hour evaluation). If he's truly psychotic there's a pretty good chance he'll be committed by the court for treatment up to 6 months. And even when he's discharged it's very unlikely that he will be returning to his previous (unsupervised) residence. That's the way it works in FL. Other states' laws may differ slightly, but all have provisions for mandatory treatment for those that are a risk to themselves and/or others. If the cops won't Baker-act this guy, or he's discharged back home right away, then yes by all means find a new place. Just my 2 cents.



nero
 
In addition to the lawyer providing your bro with civil/criminal legal protection, he should also be able to help him break his lease - unsafe enviroment - that sort of thing.

As an aside, is there a network of pro - 2nd Ammendment attorneys one could use for reference in cases like this?


Keith
 
In addition to the lawyer providing your bro with civil/criminal legal protection, he should also be able to help him break his lease - unsafe enviroment - that sort of thing.

As an aside, is there a network of pro - 2nd Ammendment attorneys one could use for reference in cases like this?


Keith
 
FWIW, I know this information from somehwhat firsthand experience -

If you DO manage to drop the hammer in self defense and get charged with murder, felony, first degree or otherwise - kiss your financial stability goodbye. Your legal fees can run $50k-100k at the drop of a hat. Something to think about before taking someone's life, even if they're trying to take yours.
 
Your legal fees can run $50k-100k at the drop of a hat. Something to think about before taking someone's life, even if they're trying to take yours.
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Not to minimize the financial issue, but if someone is trying to take my life the last thing I'll be thinking about are financial issues. I already considered the financial aspect before I chose to carry. If I ever do have to shoot, I hope the only thing in my mind will be front sight, press.
 
Your legal fees can run $50k-100k at the drop of a hat.
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Where do you get your figures?

The figures I've heard (which are based on actual cases) put the cost to defend yourself in a murder trial that comes from a self defense shooting to more in the $18k-$25k range.

Not chump change, but still a bit removed from "$50k-100k at the drop of a hat"
 
Also....unless shes really cute, and not psycho, never try to make friends with someone because you feel bad for them!!!
 
I really don't care if the guy is bipolar, tripolar, quadpolar, skitz, hates his mother or wets the bed. If he's forced his way into my home and I've smacked him twice in the head with a hockey stick and he's trying to knock down a locked door behind which is yours truly is holding a Beratta-he's toast.

And as for any legal repercussions are concerned just let me say I'm glad to live where I do. My only legal cost would be after the funeral suing his estate for the replacement cost of my door and any clean up cost.
 
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