hard cast lead

[Jeff H]

I'll be moving into reloading some higher pressure cartridges in the near future and I like the economy of shooting lead, but don't like cleaning lead out of barrels. :banghead:

Is hardcast the way to go for 9mm and full power 357 or just a harder brinell number using regular lead? If I need to use hardened lead bullets, where do I buy them from I don't see them on sites like Misouri and Dardas. Or is this all just academic because it really doesn't stop the leading and I should stick to jacketed bullets for these two calibers?

 

[Walkalong]

You can buy pre cast bullets suited to both of those calibers that will not lead, assuming proper loads and guns with properly sized bores and throats.

The 9MM will not need as hard a bullet as the .357, assuming full loads in .357.

Anybody who says you can't load lead in those two calibers without leading, is wrong.

 

[rcmodel]

Using the proper alloy is always preferable to water dropping and attempting to harden something that isn't.

There is a very interesting article in this months Handloader by Brian Pearce concerning proper bullet hardness.
I highly recommend you buy the October issue and read it.

He points out quite correctly that back in the day, a normal factory bullet was almost pure lead, and had a BH of about 5-6.

Phil Sharp, Doug Wesson, and others who played the major role in developing the .357 Mag in the 30's used harder bullets consisting of 1/16 tin/lead with a hardness of BH 11.

Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton bumped the hardness up another notch to 1/15 tin / lead and got a little harder bullets, but not much. But they called them "Hardcast" bullets, and the name has stuck, and caused trouble, ever since.

Wheel-weights drop at about 9 - 11 BH and work perfectly in most guns.

It is my opinion that todays "hardcast" bullets of 18 - 20+ BH cause more problems then they cure.
They are too hard to bump up to fill the chamber throats on revolvers at any less then maximum magnum pressure. That can cause gas cutting and leading that would not happen with a softer bullet.

I think you would have good success with Lyman #2 alloy consisting of 90/5/5 percent lead, tin, and antimony.

Or even regular wheel weights at slightly less them barn-burner pressure levels.

In any event, it is much easier to error on too hard a bullet, rather then too soft with most loads & guns.

rc

 

[Ben Shepherd]

RC-- BRAVO. Excellent post.

Or even regular wheel weights at slightly less them barn-burner pressure levels.

Or, you can water drop them and with a proper lube run them as hard as you want in pistol length barrels.

I run straight cast wheel weights from 900-1400 in various calibers with little leading at all.

 

[ASCTLC]

Good topic. I keep throwing the idea around to cast my own using wheel weights because I have a source to get ww free. But just can't shake the thought they'de be super pain in the ass to deal with leading in the Puma 92 barrel at anything greater than anemic levels.

I'm a noobie with reloading and getting set up with the components for the 30-06 (all set for the 9mm and .357 mag). To cast my own lead, don't I have to have more expensive equipment beyond the casting block?

Andy

 

[rcmodel]

Stop to consider that millions of rounds of .22LR rim-fire are shot yearly with absolutely no leading at all.

Pure lead, soft swaged bullet, wax lubed at most, at 1,200 - 1,400+ FPS.
They work perfectly with no leading, because they are soft enough to bump up and perfectly fit any .22RF barrel ever made.

That ought to tell you something right there!

It can easily be done with any handgun caliber too.

rc

 

[ASCTLC]

Good point to consider RC. Thanks!

 

[angus6]

got almost 10K down the tube in my 9mm that was a 50/50 mix of ww and cable shield and water dropped , have yet to see any leading.
Now one of my shooting buddies fought lead in his 9mm for a while , think he just got it cured

Total $$ was $210 for equipment and the lead was free , makes for cheap bullets

Jeff just give Brad a shout at Missouri Bullets , his 9mm work just great

 

[Remo-99]

To cast my own lead, don't I have to have more expensive equipment beyond the casting block?

ALSCTLC, the mold blocks usually pay for themselves in about the first 500-1000 cast bullets for a particular calibre, after that it's basically just your raw materials(lead, lube, etc.)
The next biggest cost item would be the melter and if that is split amonst multiple calibres, cost are recouped quickly also, depending on quantities cast.

I first started out casting with a Lee mold, an old propane burner camp stove and a small cast iron pot, as well as liquid alox and the simple Lee push through sizer.
That whole setup paid for itself with the first 500 bullets, after that I just added to my casting setup with further savings from casting. It would cost me much more not to be casting myself.

I keep throwing the idea around to cast my own using wheel weights because I have a source to get ww free.

I've used WW's alot and found they are a good general purpose alloy and quite easy to cast with.

But just can't shake the thought they'de be super pain in the ass to deal with leading in the Puma 92 barrel at anything greater than anemic levels.

WW's pushed at magnum velocities did give me slight leading in my 686 which was no big deal to clean out. I use a gascheck mold's and seat gaschecks on 44mag bullets for my lever carbine and never had any issues with leading. Gaschecks are good insurance if your pushing above 1400fps.

 

[something vague]

Using the proper alloy is always preferable to water dropping and attempting to harden something that isn't.

There is a very interesting article in this months Handloader by Brian Pearce concerning proper bullet hardness.
I highly recommend you buy the October issue and read it.

He points out quite correctly that back in the day, a normal factory bullet was almost pure lead, and had a BH of about 5-6.

Phil Sharp, Doug Wesson, and others who played the major role in developing the .357 Mag in the 30's used harder bullets consisting of 1/16 tin/lead with a hardness of BH 11.

Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton bumped the hardness up another notch to 1/15 tin / lead and got a little harder bullets, but not much. But they called them "Hardcast" bullets, and the name has stuck, and caused trouble, ever since.

Wheel-weights drop at about 9 - 11 BH and work perfectly in most guns.

It is my opinion that todays "hardcast" bullets of 18 - 20+ BH cause more problems then they cure.
They are too hard to bump up to fill the chamber throats on revolvers at any less then maximum magnum pressure. That can cause gas cutting and leading that would not happen with a softer bullet.

I think you would have good success with Lyman #2 alloy consisting of 90/5/5 percent lead, tin, and antimony.

Or even regular wheel weights at slightly less them barn-burner pressure levels.

In any event, it is much easier to error on too hard a bullet, rather then too soft with most loads & guns.

rc

Thank you for this post! Nice to see someone else actually reading the articles out of this great magazine. This whole lead hardness thing was experienced by me a few months ago. I solved all my leading issues by switching over to soft lead, or what would be considered normal to hard cast lead back in the day.

 

[NuJudge]

With the 9mm, lots of barrels have larger groove diameters than they are supposed to, having .357" and even .358" groove diameters. Too small a bullet will give you lots of gas blow-by, with incredible Leading.

I like hard lead. Everything I cast has lots of Tin and Antimony in it. I use a lot of 6-cavity aluminum molds, even for rifle bullets, filling the mold at least 3 and maybe 4 times a minute. I drop bullets from the mold into water, if only for material handling purposes. If I drop into a box with a towel, quickly bullets are banging into each other producing dings. With water there are no dings.

If I want soft bullets, I can oven anneal.

A long time ago I did try really soft bullets, using NRA formula lube and really fast powders. I had trouble getting the Lead to fill out the mold cavity, and I still got bore Leading.

I suggest you try both and go with what works for you.

 

[Noveldoc]

I have fired hunderds of moderately hard lead bullets from Friendswood Bullet Co. in my 45s and 44 mag with no issues at all.

And it ain't too hard to clean out a bit of lead from time to time.

Well worth the financial savings.

Tom

 

[gunlaw]

if you don't want to cast your own i have found thar laser cast and meister bullets work well for 357 mag,however no experience with 9mm. keep your loads a little below max and you should be fine.

 

[Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets]

Various BHN numbers can be misleading when dealing with hardcast bullets of various manufacturers. Bullets with similar numbers can be widely different in their performance when the alloy strength varies, a measurement usually not provided.
Alloy strength is much more important than straight BHN numbers which has become the standard of comparison and thus creates problems and confusion. Proper alloys sized to fit each guns application along with proper powder selection for that alloy and the range that you want the load to work within , once achieved, will give you minimal or no lead fouling for your application. The gun must be clean and free from ALL copper fouling before switching over to lead bullets.

 

[ljnowell]

I think what you need is missouri bullet. Talk to brad. He can make any of the bullets in different hardness etc. Good people. I just received an order the other day, 2 days from order its on my front porch. Best people in the business.

 

[sonier]

woot, im gona have too start this soon, darn bullets gettin pricy for me. now just to get a few thousand primers lol

 

[bluetopper]

I shoot my Smith 44 Magnums exclusively with 240gr lead SWC bullets and get no leading. The large majority of them are not at max levels, but some are.
I really don't see the need for jacketed bullets in handguns, especially in lesser calibers.

 

[Superblackrifle]

Polish your barrel . It helps reduce leading

I use my own concoction to polish the bore of my guns and I shoot a lot of lead in glocks especially. The polishing helps the lead not stick to the surface and helps in cleaning.