Have you heard of Russian made Remington NMA?

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Mizar

Mizar

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Hello gentleman - long time no see...

A Bulgarian collector recently posted pictures of an interesting Remington NMA - it appers to be made in Russia, by the gunsmith Nikolay Goltiakov in the city of Tula. The problem is that there isn't any information for such revolvers - Russian made Colts 1851 are well known and documented, but NMAs - no, nothing... Goltiakov himself was known to make 1851 copies - either licensed or not, I don't know, but there is information on that. The marking on upper part of the barrel reads "Nikolay Goltiakov in Tula" and there's the imperial proof mark. No other markings are known to be on the revolver. But, compared with the rest of the revolver, those barrel markings appear to be almost pristine - no rust, no rounded edges from use... They are quite suspicious. So, my question is - looking closely, can you say if the said revolver could be authentic, or it's a fake? Frame does not look like it is from a known manufacturer, but then again I might be missing something.

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There is no reason to assume that in a nation state as large as Russia, with its industry, in a city that made weapons, that someone could not have made copies of the Remington 1858 revolver. I have seen an outstanding 22 lr match rifle made in the 50's or 60's by a machinist. There are guys who get a wild hair and make stuff.

This was made in Poland. Big, badda, boom!

 
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The reason I'm asking is that Nikolay Goltiakov was a very well known gunsmith, had a factory in the city of Tula and the revolvers (among other firearms) that he made are well known and documented. He made copies of Colt 1851, Adams, Galand, M1854 Lefaucheux... But no mention of Remington NMA. Non, nothing...
 
Mizar said:
The reason I'm asking is that Nikolay Goltiakov was a very well known gunsmith, had a factory in the city of Tula and the revolvers (among other firearms) that he made are well known and documented. He made copies of Colt 1851, Adams, Galand, M1854 Lefaucheux... But no mention of Remington NMA. Non, nothing...
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Knowledge about Russian firearms or European firearms is bounded by a number of factors.

1) American's are primarily interested in their own hero's
2) Russia is across an ocean full of sharks
3) the number of American's who speak Russian is vanishingly small
4) The Russians would probably consider anyone studying their firearms industry as a spy.
5) most of what is in the American press is there to promote sales
6) American's probably would not pay big money for an antique Russian copy of an antique American gun, even if there was a large collection of them in the US.

And if you are eastern European, you know American's are pretty clueless about your country, your history, your culture, and really don't care to know.

(note, more Americans know that Wakanda is a nation in Africa, than can point to Africa on a map, and anyone who claims they can locate Wakanda is a liar. Because, Wakanda is invisible)

In this aspect, Americans are not uniquely stupid, the masses in every country act this way, because all large human organizations are self centered and grandiose.
 
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I know all of that, Slamfire, but it doesn't hurt to ask - there are some pretty knowledgeable folks in this forum. We have quite a few Russian members as well.
 
Howdy

I know nothing about a Remington style revolver being produced in Russia, but it is well known that the Smith and Wesson Russian revolver was also produced by Ludwig and Lowe, and I believe they were produced in Tula.

If you view this video by Ian McCollum on his Forgotten Weapons website, at about 6:50 he shows the Cyrillic markings at the top of the barrel.

 
I know about the Russian made S&W revolvers, Driftwood - they are well known and documented. This particular revolver is of interest, because I cannot find any information, any mentioning at all, about NMA's being ever produced in Russia. Goltiakov had a small factory - in that period the city of Tula was something like a miniature Liege, full of small gunsmith shops and factories that made any kind of firearms. So it may be a valid assumption that this revolver was one of a kind, or "experimental" model if you like... But still, I would appreciate if there's any information about it.

Driftwood Johnson said:
If you view this video by Ian McCollum on his Forgotten Weapons website, at about 6:50 he shows the Cyrillic markings at the top of the barrel.
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Unlike Ian I can actually read them... :neener:
 
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So can I, and they look authentic here. If they are faked they are very well done. The last character stamped looks to be a pre 1900 version of the "hard" modifier, something a modern 'faker' might not know or bother to do, and the wear across the "Л" and T are consistent with the surrounding wear.
As you surmise, it most likely is a 'one-off' maybe made just for the challenge of it, or commissioned by some aristocrat who wanted it "off the books."
Nice to see you posting again, Mizar! :thumbup:
 
Hi, Entropy - nice to see you too!
The more I look at this revolver, the more I'm convinced that it's actually just that - "a one-off". Outside of Russia, Goltiakov's firearms are not well known, the revolver was bought in Bulgaria (it's a Balkan country - not really close to Russia), so counterfeiting it makes a little sense here. It was sold for about $1000, which is a, sort of, OK price for a sound, no name, Belgian revolvers for instance... Not low, but nothing out of ordinary for such weapon. Doesn't look like an aged replica from a known (to me) European manufacturer. In the same time, it's different from the later model NMA in several areas... So yes, I agree with you - it's probably authentic.
 
Mizar said:
Hi, Entropy - nice to see you too!
The more I look at this revolver, the more I'm convinced that it's actually just that - "a one-off". Outside of Russia, Goltiakov's firearms are not well known, the revolver was bought in Bulgaria (it's a Balkan country - not really close to Russia), so counterfeiting it makes a little sense here. It was sold for about $1000, which is a, sort of, OK price for a sound, no name, Belgian revolvers for instance... Not low, but nothing out of ordinary for such weapon. Doesn't look like an aged replica from a known (to me) European manufacturer. In the same time, it's different from the later model NMA in several areas... So yes, I agree with you - it's probably authentic.
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If it sold for $1000, then it could be an Italian counterfeit. I have seen a number of Italian cap and ball pistols very intelligently aged to appear to be original Colt Dragoons and 1860's. The forger was able to obliterate the proof marks, etc.

I suggest, if you have the pistol, take a screw gauge and see if the screws are metric. I know the nipples on those Italian replicas have metric threads, probably so do the other screws. And if they are metric, they cannot be period. Russia went metric in 1925, and the US, has not!
 
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