Having the serial #'s run on your concealed carry weapon

[N555]

Who know how it happened. Someone could have flip-flopped the last 2 or middle 2 serial numbers on their gun that was actually stolen. Oops. Now your gun is "stolen".

 

[RickD427]

Who know how it happened. Someone could have flip-flopped the last 2 or middle 2 serial numbers on their gun that was actually stolen. Oops. Now your gun is "stolen".

That happens. Keypunch mistakes while doing data entry are pretty common.

I've also seen many issues with the NCIC database where records are indexed by Serial Number, and there is no assurance that Serial Numbers are unique between manufacturers and between differing models of firearms made by a manufacturer. For many years, the Serial Number of my on-duty revolver was listed as "Stolen" in NCIC, but in viewing that record closely, the stolen firearm was one that had the same Serial Number as mine, but was a different model.

 

[Drail]

You have to love the stupidity of having a cop ask if you've been drinking - and if you just say NO they let you go on your way. Or - are you an American citizen and you say yes and go on your way. How does THAT keep us all safer? Personally I couldn't care less what the Supremes say about anything anymore - ALL checkpoints are a clear violation of the Constitution.

 

[bdickens]

Personally I couldn't care less what the Supremes say about anything anymore - ALL checkpoints are a clear violation of the Constitution.

Except that it is the Supreme Court who decides what is Constitutional and not you.

Now, wherever would such a silly idea come from? The Constitution.

 

[herrwalther]

"Checkpoints" are basically illegal as it is, bit that's a whole other thing. But of course, we get what we put up with and allow.

Except they aren't illegal in most states.

https://www.oyez.org/cases/1989/88-1897

Hotgunz claims to have records of 27,000 stolen firearms. That seems like too low of a number to be useful. Based on research I did years ago, the black market has over a million firearms from thefts, straw purchases etc. The typical ways that criminals get firearms.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

I'll ignore the paranoid delusional rantings that I have read here, and ask a question:

When you fill-out form 4473 and the serial number gets called in, is it run thru NCIC by the FBI?

 

[herrwalther]

When you fill-out form 4473 and the serial number gets called in, is it run thru NCIC by the FBI?

Long answer short, no. Listen to the call sometime, if your store does it in front of you. The serial number is never entered in on the call or online, if they do the e-check. It is recorded in the paper 4473 and the shop's A&D "Bound book."

 

[daniel craig]

Are you flipping serious? Not one word? Even when you get pulled over for a traffic violation? I suspect that if you act like that, you will have every opportunity to have your lawyer present. At the jail.

Nope. I've been pulled over a few times in my life more than I care to admit and I've used this method every time and nothing bad has come of it. You do what they ask and you don't answer their questions.

 

[daniel craig]

I'll ignore the paranoid delusional rantings that I have read here, and ask a question:

When you fill-out form 4473 and the serial number gets called in, is it run thru NCIC by the FBI?

It's run through NICS but as we know that system is only as good as the information that exists within it.

 

[dogtown tom]

It's run through NICS but as we know that system is only as good as the information that exists within it.

NICS is purely a background check on the buyer. It has NEVER even had an option other than Handgun/Long Gun/Other firearm.
NICS isn't even told the manufacturer or model.

Its been posted at least once in this thread and hundreds of times in the last year.

 

[daniel craig]

NICS is purely a background check on the buyer. It has NEVER even had an option other than Handgun/Long Gun/Other firearm.
NICS isn't even told the manufacturer or model.

Its been posted at least once in this thread and hundreds of times in the last year.

I'm well aware of that.. that's my point.

 

[Elkins45]

It's been my observation that standing on principle often results in sitting in jail. And a hefty legal bill.

Myself, I'm happy to answer a few questions and save myself the $10K. That may make me a sheep, but at least I'm a sheep grazing in my home pasture without a giant legal bill.

 

[Old Dog]

Apparently he had watched too many episodes of Sons Of Anarchy and thought all motorcyclists ride around with saddebags full of drugs.

Yeah, like all cops on patrol duty have time to watch a lot of network television. Newsflash: cops are the most skeptical television and movie viewers in existence, and have been waiting 75 years for TV or motion pictures to accurately depict their jobs (not to mention the real evil that actually exists in the criminal world).

Geez. Threads such as this get me a bit worried. I'm now retired and haven't had to do traffic stops for a while anyway, but the folks that promote perpetuating an adversarial attitude toward a guy (or gal) just doing their job get me wondering. I never confronted anyone with an attitude, and always believed that if you demonstrate respect, you'll receive respect in return.

As it was i was able to get it dismissed without hiring an attorney and all is well.

And yet, you keep making a huge deal about this. Yes, it's hard to believe that there's not more to the story...

I'm also noticing that on the internet, folks continually keep confusing NICS and NCIC (not to mention NCIS, but don't get me started).

 

[CodeSection]

While I would have handled the questions differently, I appreciate @davethedog starting this thread as I missed his original thread. Tonight, I emailed most of my pdfs purchase receipts to myself and then loaded them into my photo folder on my iPhone as well as loaded them into my FirearmSafe app. Tomorrow, I plan to scan in the remaining paper receipts from decades ago and make additional pdf files to load into my iPhone and FirearmSafe app.

@davethedog, thanks for sharing!

 

[Fooey]

Really? You honestly think that the questions being asked at a DL checkpoint are evil and diabolical? Would answering "Is this your current address, Mr. Smith?" have gotten the OP in more trouble that what happened when he didn't comply? Why would anyone with an ounce of intelligence, intentionally try to act suspicious when carrying a CWC?

Any lawyer out there will tell you "rule #1, never talk to the police without a lawyer present"

 

[RickD427]

Any lawyer out there will tell you "rule #1, never talk to the police without a lawyer present"

Yup, Guess how much the lawyer gets paid if your field contact with the nice officer gets immediately resolved in the field?

Now, Guess how much the lawyer gets paid if you go to jail, and the lawyer provides the same explanation as you could have provided in the field?

Folks, let's be smart here. Not all situations are the same, and what is wise for you to do in a field contact with a LEO is gonna be highly dependent on the circumstances. There is no "one size fits all" response to be had.

 

[Old Dog]

Any lawyer out there will tell you "rule #1, never talk to the police without a lawyer present"

Yeah, sorry, but... you're wrong. If you are traveling on the public roadways and you get pulled over for a suspected violation of the traffic code, you are actually legally obligated to provide certain information. (No, no good cop is gonna ask you where you're going, so put that one to rest, your Constitutional rights are safe). Any lawyer out there will tell you "rule #1, never talk to the police without a lawyer present" applies specifically to when you are actually being apprehended/arrested with possible criminal charges to follow.

We must have some members here who've talked themselves into more'n a few tickets. (I personally hated writing tickets, because I didn't like having to go into court for some jackwagon who was trying to prove he wasn't going twenty miles an hour over the posted speed limit, when I coulda written him for going 35 over, but was trying to save him from a reckless driving charge as well). Sheesh.

 

[Mosin77]

There’s obviously a line somewhere between being pleasant and cooperative and innocent, and giving information that may lead to suspicion or falsely incriminate.

The trouble is, we humans aren’t great at thinking on our feet, with perfect equanimity and unflappable poise, while an armed authority figure is questioning us.

And at the end of the day, right or wrong, the man with the badge and gun is going to do what he wants, and legal or not, he’ll have the presumption of the law on his side. That’s just how it works. Most of us opt to smile, be polite, and answer questions that seem reasonable, with the idea that if we really have nothing to hide, this strategy will probably get us on our way faster and more painlessly than any efforts to evade questions or flat out refusal to answer them.

It’s hard to say if the OP’s situation could have been handled in a way that would have defused the situation and not led to an arrest.

 

[Fooey]

Yeah, sorry, but... you're wrong. If you are traveling on the public roadways and you get pulled over for a suspected violation of the traffic code, you are actually legally obligated to provide certain information. (No, no good cop is gonna ask you where you're going, so put that one to rest, your Constitutional rights are safe). Any lawyer out there will tell you "rule #1, never talk to the police without a lawyer present" applies specifically to when you are actually being apprehended/arrested with possible criminal charges to follow.

We must have some members here who've talked themselves into more'n a few tickets. (I personally hated writing tickets, because I didn't like having to go into court for some jackwagon who was trying to prove he wasn't going twenty miles an hour over the posted speed limit, when I coulda written him for going 35 over, but was trying to save him from a reckless driving charge as well). Sheesh.

I disagree. The time to shut your mouth is when cops show up, before you are arrested or ticketed. Any lawyer will tell you to never talk to police period, it makes lawyers job harder. They also tell you to always record any contact with LEOs. Nobody has ever talked their way out of a charge but like you said, many have given enough information for the cops to twist it into something they can charge you for. The time for talking is in court. Yes you have to give license , insurance and registration if pulled over for a traffic code violation, but are not obligated to answer any questions. And yes you should be courteous to the officer. All my opinion my friend.

 

[Fooey]

Yup, Guess how much the lawyer gets paid if your field contact with the nice officer gets immediately resolved in the field?

Now, Guess how much the lawyer gets paid if you go to jail, and the lawyer provides the same explanation as you could have provided in the field?

Folks, let's be smart here. Not all situations are the same, and what is wise for you to do in a field contact with a LEO is gonna be highly dependent on the circumstances. There is no "one size fits all" response to be had.

You are much more likely to go to jail and get a large lawyer bill if you answer all his questions and/or argue endlessly with him. Talk less and you are more likely to go home.

 

[dodo bird]

I know there are some people who would adamantly refuse to do this as they don't want anyone to know what kind of firearm they own. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i think it's wise to do so. From now on anything i carry will have the numbers ran on it for a stolen firearm. I was arrested recently and charged with a felony at a DL checkpoint for a stolen firearm i had owned and carried for 17 years purchased new from a FFL dealer. No criminal record, legal carry permit, senior citizen. If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone. You just never know if someone entered a serial # one digit off or if the firearm was actually stolen and resold through a FFL. If it's in your possession even though you didn't know it, don't assume they will let you go. This is one of those horror stories that falls under the category of "This could never happen to you". Yes it can. Ask any of the thousands of people in the US who were innocent and charged with crimes they had nothing to do with. Law enforcement simply will not believe you and will charge you no matter what you say. It was dismissed in court of course but all it takes is one bad small town "officer' to ruin the reputation of all the good cops out there. In my case i was pulled to the side at a DL checkpoint for a criminal investigation because i wouldn't answer questions.

You did nothing wrong by not talking to the police. Don’t let anyone tell you different. I am sorry your got caught up in a mistake.

 

[dodo bird]

Sounds like it would have been just as wise to answer their questions.

My 4th amendment is just as important as my 2nd. He did nothing wrong. I don’t want to live in a country that wants to stop and ask questions. (Need a history lesson? Trying to be polite) Huge slippery slope.

 

[daniel craig]

Yeah, like all cops on patrol duty have time to watch a lot of network television. Newsflash: cops are the most skeptical television and movie viewers in existence, and have been waiting 75 years for TV or motion pictures to accurately depict their jobs (not to mention the real evil that actually exists in the criminal world).

Geez. Threads such as this get me a bit worried. I'm now retired and haven't had to do traffic stops for a while anyway, but the folks that promote perpetuating an adversarial attitude toward a guy (or gal) just doing their job get me wondering. I never confronted anyone with an attitude, and always believed that if you demonstrate respect, you'll receive respect in return.
And yet, you keep making a huge deal about this. Yes, it's hard to believe that there's not more to the story...

I'm also noticing that on the internet, folks continually keep confusing NICS and NCIC (not to mention NCIS, but don't get me started).

I'd be much more inclined to talk to the police if I knew that everything I said wouldn't be used against me in court if they decided they needed to. I think a lot of people would be much more willing to talk to the police if they knew that this was the case. You want people to be more cooperative change the statutes under which you operate that's my opinion.

Until policing in our country operates from a set of behavior standards that sees citizens of this country not as enemies immediately but as equal and fellow citizens to those doing the policing and until every Police department the nation over has stricter standards on police conduct I think it's pretty one-sided to ask citizens to be cooperative with police. Perhaps we should be asking police to be cooperative with us because most of us aren't criminals.

It's also entirely possible and plausible that someone could want to speak to the cops but be too scared at a traffic stop to be able to do so. Law enforcement are intimidating and the way we do law enforcement in this country they're supposed to be.

 

[davethedog]

We did what was required and presented license and insurance and were told to go on. The one bad deputy was the one who pulled us aside for questioning. This wasn't a "real" policeman like most of ya'll would think of. It was a small town deputy in Mississippi where i assume the standards are pretty low for employment as a law enforcement officer. If one of the guys had said something like, "you guys been riding all day?" i would have said "yeah we've rode 550 miles from Texas. It's been a long day." We had nothing to hide and the idea that two old retired guys carry drugs around is ridiculous. Maybe he thought i was legally carrying a firearm to do drive bys and carjackings. If you think things like this still don't happen, look up Brookside Alabama and read about all the innocent people who got fined or arrested by the Brookside Police in the last several years.

 

[davethedog]

I forgot to mention that i talked later to a fellow i knew who works in a garage in that town repairing motorcycles after business hours to pick up some spare money. The same deputy had been watching the garage and pulling over customers on bikes for any little thing.