The other night I sat straight up in bed to the sound of my back yard gate creaking and then slamming shut. The gate can only be unlatched from inside as it has a turnbuckle that you tighten to draw the gate tightly closed. (It has somehting to do with "Yard Nazi" lawn man and his riding mower that didnt fit thru a standard gate.) I grabbed my Glock 34 (on nightstand) with high cap and UTL. I stood at the doorway to my bedroom. My black lad was in the den. I figured if the BG tried to open the back door, the lab would alert so I stayed in the bedroom. My heart pounded, mouth got dry and hands started to sweat. I stood there in near total darkness without my contacts or glasses. Minutes passed and I had time to collect myself and think. Kinda wished I had a shotgun then with an assault sling. At the range to the door, a shotgun would have served the purpose well. My wife fianlly awoke to the gate slamming again. I turned on the floodlights, listened for more activity and went outside, with wife at the ready, to investigate. Nothing found except loose turnbuckle. Maybe i forgot?????? Anyway, any thoughts on ideal HD gun? Is a 19 round 9MM, in the dark without glasses gonna suffice over a 7 or 8 round shotgun? Benelli Nova?
HD gun
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ShaiVong
Member
I've never used a NOVA, though i would like to try one. I really dont think you can go wrong with a good condition second hand Remmington 870 or Mossie 500. I also think most people here have good things to say about one or both of those as a basic HD weapon.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Glock 34 is an excellent HD weapon. If your vision is good enough to ID a threat, it's probably good enough to hit the threat with your handgun. You could consider upgrading to tritium sights (or hang a boresighted light on your accessory rail, if your 34 has one) if you are concerned about being able to see the sights at night without glasses. If you're farsighted (or nearsighted, for that matter), the light might be a good choice since you can put the shot in the center of the light pattern.
A long gun has its advantages (power, ease of hitting with), but a handgun is more versatile in many HD situations (opening door while "pie-ing" a room, turning on lights, getting kids to safety, etc.). My primary HD gun is my CCW handgun, a S&W 3913LS 9mm, but if I thought an intruder were in my house at night and I was guarding the hallway with my family safe behind me, my mini-14 with a 30-rd mag full of 40-gr JHP's would probably be in my hands, not the 9mm.
Do be aware that a long gun may be somewhat easier to get away from you as you are entering a room, though good retention technique can help. In summary, the long gun shines if you are staying put, whereas the handgun is better if you have to move (IMO).
A long gun has its advantages (power, ease of hitting with), but a handgun is more versatile in many HD situations (opening door while "pie-ing" a room, turning on lights, getting kids to safety, etc.). My primary HD gun is my CCW handgun, a S&W 3913LS 9mm, but if I thought an intruder were in my house at night and I was guarding the hallway with my family safe behind me, my mini-14 with a 30-rd mag full of 40-gr JHP's would probably be in my hands, not the 9mm.
Do be aware that a long gun may be somewhat easier to get away from you as you are entering a room, though good retention technique can help. In summary, the long gun shines if you are staying put, whereas the handgun is better if you have to move (IMO).
Your home is simply not properly armed and defended unless you have a reliable, solid pump-action 12 gauge from any of the major manufacturers. ( Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, etc.)
Of course a solid hangun is necessary too, but if the choice was between either only a shottie or a handgun, most everyone you ask will go shottie hands down. I sure would.
True that pistols are better close-quarters weapons, but you probably shouldn't go house-clearing in the first place. If you really, truly think someone is in your home, lock yourself and family in one room (hopefully a designated "safe" room), dial 911 and let the police do the rest.
Anyone tries to get through that door while you're waiting for the cops should leave courtesy of the local coroner.
Of course a solid hangun is necessary too, but if the choice was between either only a shottie or a handgun, most everyone you ask will go shottie hands down. I sure would.
True that pistols are better close-quarters weapons, but you probably shouldn't go house-clearing in the first place. If you really, truly think someone is in your home, lock yourself and family in one room (hopefully a designated "safe" room), dial 911 and let the police do the rest.
Anyone tries to get through that door while you're waiting for the cops should leave courtesy of the local coroner.
sm
member
I use my CCW's.
This is for MY needs, in an apt complex. I'm more prone to need entering and leaving. That includes going to mailbox, or visiting a neighbor. I carry while inside my apt. I figure for ME carrying on person is best. If have if a knock on the door...things goes bad. I come in and the exterminator is waitng on me...and he is not here to spray but, has robbery in mind. I like to be mobile, flexible and CCW allows me to do so.
[ I have come home and someone had broken in through a back window of my house at the time...they were awaiting my arrival, so I base my choice from experience]
[ I don't trust maint. persons, known cases of them using a duplicate key to rob, or worse...especially when preying on the females ]
YMMV
This is for MY needs, in an apt complex. I'm more prone to need entering and leaving. That includes going to mailbox, or visiting a neighbor. I carry while inside my apt. I figure for ME carrying on person is best. If have if a knock on the door...things goes bad. I come in and the exterminator is waitng on me...and he is not here to spray but, has robbery in mind. I like to be mobile, flexible and CCW allows me to do so.
[ I have come home and someone had broken in through a back window of my house at the time...they were awaiting my arrival, so I base my choice from experience]
[ I don't trust maint. persons, known cases of them using a duplicate key to rob, or worse...especially when preying on the females ]
YMMV
ShaiVong
Member
Alright, NOW you have to tell us what happened when you came home to find an intruder inside.
sm
member
Sorry, best I not comment.
There is some truth to "concealed means concealed" and " action is quicker than reaction". Let just leave it at that , shall we?.
There is some truth to "concealed means concealed" and " action is quicker than reaction". Let just leave it at that , shall we?.
1
12.7x99mm
Guest
I keep both 12 guage and a Glock 45acp in my room. Get glock first from under pillow then move to get SG. Allways have a back up close by.
You can prolly buy three used mossberg 500's for the price of glock. Saw a few at the show this week for 150 bucks.
Almost thought of getting a second one for the car.
You can prolly buy three used mossberg 500's for the price of glock. Saw a few at the show this week for 150 bucks.
Almost thought of getting a second one for the car.
Gordy Wesen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
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- 422
This happened to me once. I never thought sheets could make so much noise. Because I thought he was in the house I stayed put with a .44 mag pointed at the door.
mercop
Member.
Home Defense-
Cell Phone
Surefire
Primary- Mosseberg 500 loaded with birdshot, awesome at room distance but will not overpenetrate and kill kiddies in next room,
Secondary-Glock 19
Cell Phone
Surefire
Primary- Mosseberg 500 loaded with birdshot, awesome at room distance but will not overpenetrate and kill kiddies in next room,
Secondary-Glock 19
Penforhire
Member
My thoughts on the HD gun, owning said 870 as well as assorted handguns --
I have no doubt that when SHTF the shotgun is the better tool. Less penetration to endanger neighbors (don't use slugs) and serious stopping power. BUT, for the other 99+% of the incidents I investigate around the house I prefer the handguns. The reason is I can hide the handgun behind my back when the problem turns out to be something non-threatening. It is impossible for me to hide the shotgun while holding it. I figure avoiding trouble, like a brandishing charge, is worth the slight reduction in defensive force.
I admit in the back of my mind I'm also thinking that in a surprise close encounter I'll be able to fire my handguns when I might otherwise be wrestling for control of my shotgun.
I have no doubt that when SHTF the shotgun is the better tool. Less penetration to endanger neighbors (don't use slugs) and serious stopping power. BUT, for the other 99+% of the incidents I investigate around the house I prefer the handguns. The reason is I can hide the handgun behind my back when the problem turns out to be something non-threatening. It is impossible for me to hide the shotgun while holding it. I figure avoiding trouble, like a brandishing charge, is worth the slight reduction in defensive force.
I admit in the back of my mind I'm also thinking that in a surprise close encounter I'll be able to fire my handguns when I might otherwise be wrestling for control of my shotgun.
StLGlocker
Member
By my bed at night:
Charged cell phone
SureFire E2e
Glock 26
In the nearby closet:
Mossberg 590 loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck
At the foot of the bed (usually):
Labrador Retriever mix Mark V Early Warning System in black & tan
I sleep soundly and with a lot of white noise going, but the dog lets me know when anyone is around.
I take the flashlight and the Glock when investigating random noises. I don't want to call out the local LE just because the wind blew something over. However, if the sounds leave no doubt at all that I am actually dealing with an intruder (footsteps, breaking glass, strange voices, etc.), then I'm staying put, and covering the bedroom door with the 590 while I dial 911.
Charged cell phone
SureFire E2e
Glock 26
In the nearby closet:
Mossberg 590 loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck
At the foot of the bed (usually):
Labrador Retriever mix Mark V Early Warning System in black & tan
I sleep soundly and with a lot of white noise going, but the dog lets me know when anyone is around.I take the flashlight and the Glock when investigating random noises. I don't want to call out the local LE just because the wind blew something over. However, if the sounds leave no doubt at all that I am actually dealing with an intruder (footsteps, breaking glass, strange voices, etc.), then I'm staying put, and covering the bedroom door with the 590 while I dial 911.
I don't think there are ANY instances of somebody taking a COM shot by a 12ga of 00 who has remained standing. (Let's exclude body armor for the sake of arguement.)
There are hundreds or thousands cases of an individual taking COM shots from a pistol round (any caliber) and still full of fight.
When at home, a shotgun is the best HD weapon, because you can access it as easily as a pistol.
There are hundreds or thousands cases of an individual taking COM shots from a pistol round (any caliber) and still full of fight.
When at home, a shotgun is the best HD weapon, because you can access it as easily as a pistol.
Baba Louie
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- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
The only negative to a shotgun for HD is the two handed carry required. Unless you have a light mounted to it and can open closed doors with your mind, you may have to take one hand off of it even temporarily... like talking to 911 on your miniature cell phone, and with my luck and Mr. Murphy's input, that would probably be the exact second when things got interesting.
Kinda hard to rack a slide on those pumps or even take skillful aim one handed.
Practice, practice, practice.
Dogs are good for early warning systems.
Leaving one light on in the living room or kitchen is another idea to consider if a two handed HD weapon is to be considered.
If you've a Flashlight or cell phone in one hand, what DO YOU put in the other?
Are you "clearing the house", the back yard or what? How near (or far) are your neighbors? The Police? Can you control the lighting indoors and out from your bedroom? Rural or city? Upstairs or down? Kids or no? Where do they sleep? Are they safe or do you have to carry a sleeping 10 year old into your "safe" room... then what about his 12 year old sister? You need two more hands sometimes. Is your wife/GF or significant other your back-up? What's her role? How "offensive" is your defense gonna be? Why? Do you retreat or go forward?
Ponder also the point of explaining to the authorities why you did just what you did and the aftermath... just have good well thought out reasons, common sense (unless you're in a country that doesn't allow any devices to be used for self-defense of house and home).
So MANY things to consider.
Good points from previous posters.
Any gun is better than no gun. They each have their strengths and weakness'. No ONE gun is right for everybody.
That's why we need one or two of each make, kind and caliber.
And who said birdshot won't go thru a wall at across the room ranges?
Adios
Kinda hard to rack a slide on those pumps or even take skillful aim one handed.
Practice, practice, practice.
Dogs are good for early warning systems.
Leaving one light on in the living room or kitchen is another idea to consider if a two handed HD weapon is to be considered.
If you've a Flashlight or cell phone in one hand, what DO YOU put in the other?
Are you "clearing the house", the back yard or what? How near (or far) are your neighbors? The Police? Can you control the lighting indoors and out from your bedroom? Rural or city? Upstairs or down? Kids or no? Where do they sleep? Are they safe or do you have to carry a sleeping 10 year old into your "safe" room... then what about his 12 year old sister? You need two more hands sometimes. Is your wife/GF or significant other your back-up? What's her role? How "offensive" is your defense gonna be? Why? Do you retreat or go forward?
Ponder also the point of explaining to the authorities why you did just what you did and the aftermath... just have good well thought out reasons, common sense (unless you're in a country that doesn't allow any devices to be used for self-defense of house and home).
So MANY things to consider.
Good points from previous posters.
Any gun is better than no gun. They each have their strengths and weakness'. No ONE gun is right for everybody.
That's why we need one or two of each make, kind and caliber.
And who said birdshot won't go thru a wall at across the room ranges?
Adios
Feanaro
Member
Depending on your situation a shotgun may or may not be a good HD weapon. In my house the only doors lead outside or to the upper bedrooms/basement. There is a big living room/kitchen, a hallway to the bedrooms and the stairs to the basement. An 18" barreled shotty fits perfectly all over and there aren't many doors to worry about.
Overpenetration is not a problem and I have dogs so I should know the BG is here before they get inside. A shotgun is perfect for me. But a real small house or one with a lot of small rooms, or even big ones, can make shotgun use hard.
Rule of thumb: Get one of each. A good pump costs half of what your Glock cost(most likely) at the MSRP level.
Overpenetration is not a problem and I have dogs so I should know the BG is here before they get inside. A shotgun is perfect for me. But a real small house or one with a lot of small rooms, or even big ones, can make shotgun use hard.
Rule of thumb: Get one of each. A good pump costs half of what your Glock cost(most likely) at the MSRP level.
Bullshooter
Member
ShaiVong
Member
I like to use a Pistol, that way my off hand is free to swing my mace. (not the chemical kind... 
)
)
Feanaro
Member
"Bring enough gun" is my motto. Number one buck from a 12 gauge seems to fit the bill against humans on up to small deer. A pistol might... or it might not. (I lke pistols but more lead IS better when it still penetrates and doesn't get in the way)
HBK
member
I hope no deer attack my home, I only have a handgun. 
ShaiVong
Member
Yeah, im going to get my Glock reamed for 30-30 just incase mutant zombie deer attack. Dont limp wrist that!
In MY Homeland Security arsenal....
First up is the Springfield 1911-A1 Champion, followed by the Maverick/Mossberg w/6 rounds of 3" #4 Buck. After that, I will have faded back to the strongroom/closet for the Most Serious Artillery...US Rifle Cal .30 M-1
First up is the Springfield 1911-A1 Champion, followed by the Maverick/Mossberg w/6 rounds of 3" #4 Buck. After that, I will have faded back to the strongroom/closet for the Most Serious Artillery...US Rifle Cal .30 M-1
You simply can't beat a 12 gauge for HD.
Some of the reasons are:
1) One shot stopping power
2) It's easier to hit the target with a shoulder held weapon
3) It doesn't have the range of a rifle so you won't kill someone a mile away
4) It is versatile enough that it can be used for close quarters and longer distance using a slug.
Some of the reasons are:
1) One shot stopping power
2) It's easier to hit the target with a shoulder held weapon
3) It doesn't have the range of a rifle so you won't kill someone a mile away
4) It is versatile enough that it can be used for close quarters and longer distance using a slug.
Actually, you should keep you mouth shut. Or at the very most simply utter "I was in fear of great bodily harm or death. I wish to speak to my attorney." No need to go running at the mouth about "why" you did "what".
Personally, I keep one of my .45's on the nightstand along with a SureFire. Occasionally I'll also have an AR-15 that has a mounted light or an M1-S90 with 00 buck. Always the .45 though.
capt_happypants
Member In Memoriam
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2003
- Messages
- 304
I'll be the odd man out and suggest a different long gun: the AR-15 carbine.
The recoil is lighter, and follow-up shots are much easier. A pre-ban with a collapsed telestock (or a post-ban with Rock River's Tactical LE Entry stock) is a lot easier to manuever in the confines of a home. I find that it's easier to shoulder a CAR-15 from a low ready position, than a combat scattergun. I am a lot more comfortable with clearing jams from my ARs, since I practice with them a lot more than my Persuader
Yes, the 5.56mm has way more overpenetration potential. Research available combat loads at www.ammo-oracle.com, and choose the one that fits your needs. Consider light JHPs or varmint (Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sierra Blitz-King, Hornady V-Max/TAP) bullets if you want to minimize overpenetration; I think M193 is the gold standard for combat applications.
The ideal CQB setup for an AR would a 16" carbine, with telescoping stock, flash suppressor, red-dot sight, and some sort of tactical light for positive target identification. With any luck, the AWB goes away, and this could be a reality. Right now, you're stuck with a pre-ban prices.
The recoil is lighter, and follow-up shots are much easier. A pre-ban with a collapsed telestock (or a post-ban with Rock River's Tactical LE Entry stock) is a lot easier to manuever in the confines of a home. I find that it's easier to shoulder a CAR-15 from a low ready position, than a combat scattergun. I am a lot more comfortable with clearing jams from my ARs, since I practice with them a lot more than my Persuader
Yes, the 5.56mm has way more overpenetration potential. Research available combat loads at www.ammo-oracle.com, and choose the one that fits your needs. Consider light JHPs or varmint (Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sierra Blitz-King, Hornady V-Max/TAP) bullets if you want to minimize overpenetration; I think M193 is the gold standard for combat applications.
The ideal CQB setup for an AR would a 16" carbine, with telescoping stock, flash suppressor, red-dot sight, and some sort of tactical light for positive target identification. With any luck, the AWB goes away, and this could be a reality. Right now, you're stuck with a pre-ban prices.
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