Head to Head: Low recoil hunting rifle

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Just thought of something Kachok, It may be a bit difficult calculating recoil with AR platforms. Given the different gas settings and piston vs. direct impingement along with all the other variables.
 
Thanks for the great info, sir. It gives me even greater confidence in my 6.5x55 and 7mm-08 rifles. Those 6.5 stats are simply AMAZING. I don't reload, so I bought a bunch of high-dollar Norma ammo and I'm glad I did. It at least approaches the performance of handloaded stuff.
 
OK, so I'm not a handloader, but would like to explore the world of 6.5mm. It seems that in the US, that means 260 (264?). Seeing as that is close to the venerable 270 - do you think that the performance of the 270 and the favoritism it gets is because it is the stand-in for the 6.5 over here?

And how close is the 257Roberts to the performance of the 6.5mm?
 
I will have to get 6.8 SPC info where ever I can seeing as no major manufacture has it listed in their manual yet, or non of mine anyway. The recoil of the 6.8 SPC will not approach the 14lbs limit of this exercise so bolt vs gas piston will not be an issue at all, the calculators I use to not have a variable for gas piston because that involves a whole new set of variables. There are several good 110gr 270 cal bullets that work well with the 6.8 so I should be able to at leased get a solid projection of external ballistics and terminal ballistics. By popular demand I will be including the 6.5 Grendal, 6mm REM, 250 Savage, 7.62x39, and 240 WBY. My off the cuff projections are that the 240Wby and 6mm Rem are going to be very compeditive across the board. 6.8SPC and 7.62x39 should make a hell of an impact on close shots but I doubt either will be in the running for the #1 all around low recoil rifle, more of a special purpose hunting rifle.
 
The 6.5 has better performance, ballistic-wise, over longer distance than the 257Roberts, but the 257 is a great caliber in its own right.

I was originally wanting a 260Rem really badly, and am left-handed, so started looking for one. Ironically, though it is an American cartridge, there were very few rifles available, and none in left-hand versions, and factory ammo for the 6.5 was much more plentiful, though expensive, than for the 260. Consequently, I went with the Swede in a Blaser. Don't regret it one bit. Some will disagree, I am sure, but I don't see that the 260 does anything the 6.5 can't do.
 
BrocLuno, the 6.5 is a hand loaders dream because of all the various bullet weights and VERY high ballistic coefficient in the long slim bullets. As I said earlier, availability (at least here in the US) of factory ammunition is so very limited which to me is why it is only a popular cartridge among us hand loaders. As Kachok said earlier, there are some factory rounds out there that do come close to our loadings such as the Norma round. But there are just so many other popular cartridges for hunting that ammunition is readily available at most all local stores such as the 7mm.08 (VERY close to the 6.5 in performance with a bit more punch) the 30/30 and the .243 (all lower recoiling rounds). Most all your target shooters reload or have their ammo reloaded for them.
 
The biggest difference between the 270 and 260 (actualy .277" and .264") is the rifling twist, the standard 1:7.5-1:8 twist on the old Sweed will stabalize very long heavy high penatration bullets that the standard 270 could never use. The 270 with twist rates from 1:12-1:10 specalizes in it's shorter 130-140gr bullets at higher speed. Both are top notch rifles, both have killed every species of game anamal on the planet, but only one of them makes this list. I own both but the 6.5x55 goes hunting with me 90+% of the time.
 
Kachok, you are right on. I have a bunch of rifles in assorted calibers, but the Swede is as close to a do-it-all round for most hunting as there is. In my opinion, of course. Modest recoil, accurate, hard-hitting, and incredible penetration.
 
I have never had a bullet fail to get full penatration on deer or feral hogs, and I have never had to track any of them, there really is somthing magic about those high SD bullets at moderate speeds.
 
Nice work.

It confirms what I've always believed - 7mm-08, 6.5x55 and .260 Rem is where it's at!
 
I know. Not to gush, but I have always thought it mind boggling the way that round works, and I am truly mystified and curious to know how they, the Swedes, or whomever developed that round, figured it out. Was it just dumb luck, or did they know something about ballistics all those years ago that no one else did. I actually read somewhere that it is no longer the most popular round in Sweden/Scandinavia, that the 30-06 and 270 are more popular, the 6.5 being number three. But still...
 
I have always though of the 257 'Bob' as the Swedes American cousin. They are quite similar, and either would make an excellent choice for a low-recoil general purpose hunting rifle.
 
30 years ago I was loading a Speer 130 gr. SP designed for the .30-30 in my Remington M788/.308 for a low-recoil hunting round. Powder was IMR3031. It was SUPER accurate.
 
OK chapter2 of the ultamate sissy kicker showdown. Here are our contestants
Caliber-----Weight-speed--recoil--Max range--MPBR----OGW---Bullet
6.8SPC----110gr @2724fps 7.6lbs 225 yards 253yards 111 lbs Nosler Accubond .370BC
6mmRem---100gr @3261fps 12.0lbs 525 yards 317yards 264 lbs Serria Gameking .430BC
250Savage 110gr @2809fps 9.7lbs 375 yards 276yards 192 lbs Nosler Accubond .418BC
7.62x39----150gr @2150fps 8.3lbs 200 yards 215yards 144 lbs Speer Hot-core .411BC
6.5 Grendal 120gr @2499fps 7.8lbs 300 yards 250yards 166 lbs Nosler Ballistic tip .458BC
240 wby----100gr @3352fps 13.5lbs 575 yards 325yards 288 lbs Speer SPBT .430BC

The loads for the 6.5 Grendal, 6.8SPC and 7.62x39 were all shot through a semi auto so their speeds would ba aprox 100fps faster in a bolt action. For a realistic figure of their recoil subtract aprox 20% recoil for your average semi-auto action.
The modern AR/AK rounds did pretty good I was supprised that the 6.8SPC could hold 1800fps/1000ft lbs to 225 yards that makes it a lagit hunting caliber in my book. The 6.5 Grendal did pretty good too, had it been proofed in a 24" bolt gun it would probably hang in there with the old school 250 Savage. As we probably all already knew the SPC was more powerful at 100 yards and the Grendal stomped it at 300 yards
As expected the 6mm Rem and 240 Wby OWNED everything in this round although the 240 pushes the limit of our recoil cap and would probably be the least enjoyable to shoot. WAY OVERBORE=VERY LOUD! :what:
 
LOL I have been calling them sissy kickers for years, I think my next chapter will detail the calibers that do NOT make the 14lbs and under club. Just so all the good folks at home have a head to head comparison not only of the low recoil calibers but the conventional and trendy calibers that are over our 14lbs limit. So we can see what we are getting for all that extra recoil/muzzleblast. I am going to go out on a limb and say there will be a few shockers on that list.
 
LOL which Wby mag do you have? Low recoil was just not in their design scheme I don't think. Even with a tiny 6mm bore the 240 hardly made the list.
 
I don't have any load data for any nitro express, if you could PM me your exact load I could give very detailed information, otherwise I could look up some unverified loads and give you the whole rundown that way.
 
OK numbers are in for the 450 NE with 106gr of powder pushing a 500gr bullet the recoil numbers are astonighing so you might want to sit down LOL
caliber--weight-speed--Recoil---Max range--MPBR----OGW@300--Bullet
450 NE 500gr @2250fps 104.3lbs 175 yards* 215 yards 1273lbs! Horandy RNSP .287BC
While 104 lbs of recoil sounds shoulder breaking this is a slower kind of recoil then what you would experence on a large high speed caliber, while it is still far from pleasent to shoot it won't send you to the ER either. 1273lbs OGW at 300 yards WOW that is a monster chunk of lead no doubt, the 450 Nitro Express was intended as an African big game hunting rifle, and was a common caliber in British safari rifles.
 
Yes it is more of a "push" than a ...What the hell am I saying it is like a dang mule kicking me in the shoulder on the bench. Surprisingly it is not TOO awful bad off hand though. After 5 rounds on the bench I was starting to see stars.

I think when I get my new book in, it has some black powder loads for it as well. I will DEFINITELY be loading it down for goofing around and may actually load it down to just over 45/70 for hog hunting. It is a hoot to shoot no doubt!
 
For those of you wanting to keep track of the top compedators
-------------------22-250--243--257R-25-06--260-6.5x55-7-08-6mmRem-240 Wby
MPBR 331 yards--------100---93---84----92----87---85----86---96-----98
max range 700 yards----25---68---68----86----96--100----89---75-----82
OGW 370lbs-------------19---63---64----86----86--100----99---71-----77
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total-------------------144--224--216---264--269--285---274--242----257
The 22-250 was only left in the running because it does hold the best MPBR. I will invent a fair formula to adjust for their actual recoil and we will crown the KING of the sissy kickers.
 
I'm curious about why there's no Rem .223 in that list. I'd think it would be a good candidate for a low recoil round.

I'm not a hunter (yet) but I've settled on two rifle calibers for my own long gun shooting. .30-30 (LOVE my lever guns:D) and 7mm-08. So it was interesting to see the comparative numbers in your data. I have to say that the numbers for those two rounds definetly jive with the findings of my own educated shoulder.

I picked the 7-08 as a round to try shooting some metallic silhouette matchs. I picked it based on the recomendation of a hunter that uses it because it's not a round that beats up a fellow's shoulder but it has the ability to reach out and be effective on a decently wide variety of game.
 
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