Headshots are considered AC??

[Pacsd]

I think I would be havin a conversation with the dept/store manager. He's got a guy working in a store that caters to hunters? Hunters shoot animals and they die. If he has has a gripe about it quit and go to work for PETA.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I NEVER take head shots unless i have no other choise on a "finisher", and this is why,

We can't post pics and clips of nearly countless non-lethal shots to the body, animals crippled as a result, etc. Would that be a reason not to shoot there?

 

[35 Whelen]

For deer and other medium/large game I will pass on head shots. Animal brains are a lot smaller in proportion to their skulls than ours are. There is a whole lot of head that you can hit without damaging anything immediately vital.

If I can't take a good broadside or quartering shot at the vitals on a deer, the white patch on the neck is a good alternative.

Exactly. I never gave much thought to head shots until a few years ago. At that time I hunted with a blow-hard who bragged about his ability to make head shots.

Due to the birth of my daughter, I couldn't be at the lease opening weekend of season. Opening morning he hunted in my stand where he reportedly hit a really nice buck. According to him there was a good blood trail but it played out and he just couldn't find it. It was two weeks before I got to hunt but I wanted to find this "really nice buck". By then it had rained and the blood trail was long gone. I went to where he'd been hunting and since I had no way to track the buck, I just went where I would've gone were I a wounded deer; the thickest, deepest cover I could find. I hadn't gone far until I found the "really nice buck"...a forkhorn. Our headshot expert had blown the little bucks nose off and he laid there until he bled to death. Since then I've be adamantly against head shots. After all, why would you shoot at something the size of an orange, as in the case of a deers brain, when you their lungs are larger and make just as lethal of a shot?

35W

 

[Art Eatman]

Ya shoot 'em in the head and there's no brains'n'eggs for breakfast.

My dear ol' dad always said to me, "Son..." (He always called me "Son") "Son, if you shoot 'em in the white spot, they don't go anywhere."

Sure enough, they don't.

 

[HarcyPervin]

+1 on buffoon, although I might have gone with Dunce. I wouldn't take a clerk at one of the box stores too seriously on something like that. That being said, I look at head shots in the same way I was taught to play defense in basketball. My coach used to tell me "when you're playing defense, don't watch a player's head or eyes, (think head-fake), watch their chest or stomach, that will tell you where they're going" Same applies to animals, heads move, and they move irratically and unpredictably, makes for tough shots and the margin of error is much smaller. Yes a brain shot will anchor an animal right in its tracks, but so will a double lung - heart shot. If you can't consistently pull that shot off, I don't think you have much business taking a shot at the smaller brain (in most animals, two and four-legged) Some people are much better shots than I am, and they might be able to pull it off. I'm not in the business of losing or tracking mutilated deer for miles because I had to take a marginal shot (head or otherwise)

 

[spclpatrolgroup]

Perfect shots seldom exist in the field, ive seen deer that have starved to death due to their jaw being shot off. Maybe some people can accuratly execute a head shot on a living target, but I would suspect that number is no where near how many belive they can. I will continue to aim for the vitals, even if it doesnt drop DRT, ill have a nice blood trail to follow.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Perfect shots seldom exist in the field, ive seen deer that have starved to death due to their jaw being shot off.

And I have seen a gut shot deer dying as a result of infection and intestines herniated (outside of the body). Bad shooting is bad shooting.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Bad shooting is bad shooting.

That's a fact. Seems like a deer with his jaw shot off disturbs my sentimentalities more. I don't know why.

Anyway, I would like to see how they would prove in court that you were shooting at the head.

 

[Bobson]

ive seen deer that have starved to death due to their jaw being shot off.

And I have seen a gut shot deer dying as a result of infection and intestines herniated (outside of the body). Bad shooting is bad shooting.

I'm happy to say I haven't seen either one, but I agree, a bad shot is a bad shot, and since we should all know our individual limits, they shouldn't exist. There have been a lot of good points brought up here, particularly against taking a head shot (IMO). I can't say I'll never aim for an animal's head again, but I'll definitely have some of this stuff in mind when the time comes.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

That's a fact. Seems like a deer with his jaw shot off disturbs my sentimentalities more. I don't know why.

I think that we, as humans who are involved with facial recognition as a huge major part of our social behavior, are more disturbed by head and especially facial trauma than trauma to other parts of the body. People are much more emotionally against blundered head shots for this reason than they are all the other blundered shots that cause considerable harm and suffering as well.

 

[41 Mag]

While I do not advocate the head shot on a deer or other game species, I have, and will in the future I am sure, take the shot if needed.

By needed I don't mean that it is a shot simply to put meat on the ground, as I don't need the meat that badly. However there are times when we are looking to take a few does off a place, and being they ravel in bunches, sometimes this is the only shot they will give that is clear of another animal. In cases like this I NEVER aim for anything but the back of the head just below the noggin bump, just below the ear canal, or right under the chin in the throat patch. I never simply put it on a spot and shoot, but look through the shot to be sure it will travel through the area I want it to.

The rifles I use in these circumstances will group easily under an inch at 200yds so making a shot like this at 75 - 100 isn't an issue with me. I can honestly say that after all of the ones I have shot in this area, I only had one doe which I actually missed this area. She was laying in the sun on the backside of a small ridge out of the pounding north wind, shortly after a torrential rain from a front passing through. I put the center of my scope right below her ear canal and touched off the shot. All she did was twitch her ears and look around. I chambered another round and when I settled back in for the second shot I noted I had hit about an inch low of the tip of her ear, and pierced them both with a 25 caliber hole. The shot was less than 75yds.

I didn't take the second shot but walked away, quite disappointed in both the rifle and myself. Once back to camp I found the rifle hitting almost 4" high at 50yds and just over 6" high at 100. this was after being sighted in right at 5 weeks earlier. I no longer have that stock, and no longer have that issue with that rifle.

Like I said I don't advocate this shot, but have and will again use it depending on the situation. This said I make sure that the rifle and load are capable of the accuracy needed.

 

[Cosmoline]

We can't post pics and clips of nearly countless non-lethal shots to the body, animals crippled as a result, etc. Would that be a reason not to shoot there?

The "head" is not a valid target. In some cases the BRAIN can be, or the brain stem. But it's very small and hard to find on a lot of animals. From certain angles what you swear is head is really muscle or flesh. Plus a miss even by an inch means horrible maiming.

Of course you can miss the heart/lung and gut shoot an animal but the heart/lung area tends to be many times bigger than the brain and easier to locate.

Exceptions would be for small critters and varmints who are comparatively tiny compared with the bullet and who are often being killed with high velocity rounds. So if you hit any part of the head, the whole head is detonated. Can't do that with a moose unless you hunt with a 30mm ;-)

Also for marine mammals I believe it's SOP to shoot for the brain stem.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The "head" is not a valid target.

I think the same could be said for the "shoulder," "neck," "chest," etc. We have people here talking about these sorts of shots all the time in the hunting section. In fact, we have folks stating such targets in this thread.

 

[Art Eatman]

I wouldn't worry much about it, DNS. All of us get a tad sloppy with the language instead of unfailingly using appropriate specificity.

 

[kemper]

That's complete BS

That's complete BS, in fact head shots on feral hogs are the PREFERRED & BEST way to take a hog out. I avoid them on deer as a general rule, but they are the way to go on hogs, squirrel and rabbit in my opinion.

 

[35 Whelen]

....head shots on feral hogs are the PREFERRED & BEST way to take a hog out.

Why and since when? What's wrong with a lung/heart shot on a hog? It's killed every one of the several dozen I've shot there.
If you've ever seen a hogs skull, you'll know that it's quite thick and heavy and the forehead area could turn or destroy a small, lightweight bullet. Given the skull is so heavy, the target (the brain) so small and the nose/snout so long and prominent (thus increasing the chances for a bad shot), what makes the head shot better than the lung shot?

35W

 

[Loosedhorse]

Brain/high neck shots are the only ethical shots on Nile crocodile. One of the toughest shots in Africa.

Like any other hunting shot: don't take a head shot if it isn't there. But if it is...

 

[ZeroJunk]

There are certainly species of animals where a head shot makes sense.

And, you can get in to a hunting situation with any game where the head shot is all you have and the distance and circumstances make it appropriate.

But, just shooting at a deer's head becasue you think it is the cool thing to do bothers me. There natural habit is to bob their head up and down quickly to check for predators. And, the point of shooting at a smaller target when a larger target will work just fine escapes me.

 

[lizziedog1]

Illegal headshots?

I guess I'll have to be more careful shooting at birds with my shotgun. I'll have to keep the pellets away from the head.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you've ever seen a hogs skull, you'll know that it's quite thick and heavy and the forehead area could turn or destroy a small, lightweight bullet. Given the skull is so heavy,

This is wrong. A hog's skull is extremely thing except on the occipital/parietal crest at the top rear of the skull. Flintknapper has a great set of pictures of the thinness of the skull in the "Feral Hog Control in Texas" (or similar title) thread. If you look carefully, it is built more like corrugated paper - very thin walls and large chambers between them.

 

[Flintknapper]

If you've ever seen a hogs skull, you'll know that it's quite thick and heavy and the forehead area could turn or destroy a small, lightweight bullet. Given the skull is so heavy,

Unfortunately…..this is a common misnomer. One I hope will be dispelled over time.

See the thread below and decide for yourself, but it is my opinion….that a hogs skull actually is quite thin most places.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=449721&page=30

See posts 722 thru 726


Thanks,

Flint

 

[35 Whelen]

O.K. so I'll play devil's advocate and agree a hogs skull is thin. Why does this dictate that "head shots on feral hogs are the PREFERRED & BEST way to take a hog out."?

Preferred by whom? The best in whose opinion?

The ONLY I time I ever hit a hog in the skull nearly resulted in a failure. I hit a boar at about 25 yds. with a Hornady .375", 220 gr. SP with a MV of right at 2200 fps. The bullet struck him just under the left eye, travelled under his brain into his right jowl where it came to rest just under the hide. The boar was nowhere near dead and I dispatched him with a shot through the lungs. To me that's a testament of the toughness of a hogs head.

So, if you want to shoot hogs in the head, that's your business, but you'll never convince me that's a good idea.

Personally I think most head shots are stunts because as I said before, I see no really reason to shoot at something as small as an animals brain when a lung shot will kill them just as dead.

35W

 

[tahunua001]

that was complete and utter bogus. in hunters ED they tell you not to do it, not because it is illegal but because you are guaranteed to have to shoot through bone to get a kill shot and it's a much smaller area to hit than the vital organs.

that said, if you have enough gun and you are an accurate enough shot there is nothing wrong with head shots but that's more the domain for seasoned shooters.
instant death over asphyxiation in your own blood, which would you choose? inhumane to shoot them in the head...I've never heard such rot.

 

[Flintknapper]

35 Whelen wrote:

O.K. so I'll play devil's advocate and agree a hogs skull is thin. Why does this dictate that "head shots on feral hogs are the PREFERRED & BEST way to take a hog out."?

Hi 35, I will try to address your questions as best I can, but understand...it is my opinion only and may not apply to others (with respect to circumstance).

In response to your question above...neither the thickness or thinness (take your pick) of the skull "dictates" a head shot on a Feral Hog. Similarly, it is my opinion that it should not be the "preferred" shot except in a limited number of circumstances.

Preferred by whom? The best in whose opinion?

An excellent question Sir! Generally speaking...those using smaller calibers and lighter bullets are responsible for the popularity (if we can call it that) of the "head shot" on Feral Hogs. The intent...of course, is to score a "CNS" (Central Nervous System) hit, thereby dropping the animal instantly.

The problem is: With Feral Hogs...the "head" is the one anatomical region most prone to movement (bested only by the tail). This can be problematic in some cases. I know someone is going to jump in here and cite the many instances in which they successfully shot a hog in the head...and that's great IF you are a good marksman and carefully pick your shots.

Personally, I recommend two things:

1. Use enough gun (with a properly designed bullet for the task at hand)
2. NECK SHOOT! Anywhere from the Occipital Joint at the base of the skull to just forward of the shoulder. Next "best shot" in my opinion is a high shoulder shot (not as high as on a deer).

The ONLY I time I ever hit a hog in the skull nearly resulted in a failure. I hit a boar at about 25 yds. with a Hornady .375", 220 gr. SP with a MV of right at 2200 fps. The bullet struck him just under the left eye, travelled under his brain into his right jowl where it came to rest just under the hide. The boar was nowhere near dead and I dispatched him with a shot through the lungs. To me that's a testament of the toughness of a hogs head.

I have heard a few similar accounts when the bullet path travels to the mandible (lower jaw). The lower jaw is indeed quite thick and tough (on mature animals) and the presence of large molars there also contribute to the likelihood a bullet will be stopped or have its path significantly changed.

However, it is probably "inconclusive" at best....to point to ONE such incident in order to support the position.... the entirety of a hogs skull is thick and tough.

So, if you want to shoot hogs in the head, that's your business, but you'll never convince me that's a good idea.

I am with you here. As previously stated, except for certain circumstances (hogs in a trap), hunter is marginally armed (small, light caliber) and the hunter is supremely confident of his/her ability, I would recommend other shots be considered first.

Personally I think most head shots are stunts because as I said before, I see no really reason to shoot at something as small as an animals brain when a lung shot will kill them just as dead.

A "lung shot" (especially a Bilateral Pneumothorax) will most certainly result in a dead hog. Not necessarily "right there"....but dead at some point. I can think of places in South Texas, Deep East Texas and parts of Florida or Georgia...where it would be less than desirable to have to track a hog any distance.

But I am in agreement...that in most cases it is best to take the higher percentage shot offered by the neck/shoulder area. Hogs should NOT be shot behind the shoulder (unless quartering away). Far too many people shoot hogs as they would a deer. The placement of a hogs vitals (read heart, lungs) is somewhat forward of that of a deer. Lots of hogs run off and are never recovered as a result of this shot placement. Yes, some drop too.

Caveat: My post is in no way an admonishment to those who "head shoot" hogs, that is your business. I have done it myself....and will do it again (under certain circumstances), but I do not generally promote the idea for the reasons cited above.

Flint.

 

[Daveboone]

Dead is dead. AC? please. This would have to include the countless animals that recieve finishing head shots also. I have long preferred head shots when I am meat hunting...absolutely no wasted meat. But you are picky about making the shot. After the shot, it can be gruesome, so I make the effort to be somewhat tactfull when transporting the deer.