Headspace and Handloading

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MaduroBU

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First time posting here outside of the intro thread, but I've read threads for a long time. Greetings.

I've been handloading since I was 14 (>20 years now...time flies), but am trying to get serious and into PRS competition. Having my M70 rebarreled is a several month process, so like many I am getting into the Savage/Ruger user-replaceable barrel rifles. My goal is a cheap rifle for practice, so a easy to workup load (thus the hybrid ogive), user-swappable barrel are the top priorities. I got a cheap Savage Axis with an -08 bolt face and am putting a Shilen 6.5 CM barrel (26", 1:8") on it. I've got a new SS barrel nut, an action wrench, and GO/NOGO PTG gauges as well as a dummy round that mimics what I'll be shooting (in this case Lapua brass and a 147 Berger OTM Hybrid). Seating depth is capped by the magpul mag length, which is important as PRS competition will need box mags vs single loading. I will measure CBTO before starting work with increasing powder charges, and will probably just use Litz's strategy of big jumps starting at the lands to 0.15" jump in 0.05" increments. This gun will only ever fire my handloads, and I'll measure CBTO and work from that before I start load workup (probably IMR 4350 or SUPERFORMANCE,which gave great velocities and 0.25-0.33 MOA in a rifle I had made for my dad).

With all of that backstory out of the way, here's my question: How important is the GO gauge for safety? I am terrified of excessive headspace, and have the barrel fitted so that the bolt handle couldn't be forced down on the NOGO with a hammer. The bolt will just start to close on the GO gauge, but will not fully close. The rifle will easily feed and chamber my dummy round (virgin Lapua brass run through the sizing die that I'll use), which has the bullet seated at maximum magazine length. My understanding is that while this slightly below spec headspace could cause issues with 1) going into battery or 2) chambering ammo close to maximum allowable dimensions, I am effectively skirting those issues by 1) using a bolt rifle which is obviously going into battery and 2) using exactly one type of ammo which I've verified chambers without difficulty.

Every thread that I see on headspace seems to rapidly devolve into insults and corner cases, with the added problem that many revolve around ARs and highly questionable reloading practices. The discussion that I've seen on this form does a great job of avoiding those pitfalls, so I wanted to post this here both as a help to myself and for possible interest to others.
 
Personally I would set it so the bolt will close on a GO Gauge. I machine and fit my own barrels. I set all mine to min spec that will close on a GO Gauge. Even in my AR's I have my gas system tuned where I get less than 0.001" stretch/firing. If you drop them into a case gauge you would think they would pass, there that close. If you run a straight edge a long the top you will feel the case head. Measure it and its < 0.0005". I have a 224 Valk that has what would be a perfect combo. I've yet to trim any brass. It's stretching less than 0.001"/firing. Makes case prep goes real fast.

As a chamber gets dirty you will want the extra insurance. A lot of ammo is below spec so it will fit any gun. Even new brass is that way.

Even if your a little over min, you can size the brass so you have < 0.001" shoulder movement during sizing. This is actually beat it gives you a little wiggle room.
 
I am not up to date on the current crop of finicky loading but if you have a Savage Nut Job, you can set the headspace where you want it. If your brass shot in a short chamber "rides up with wear", just loosen the nut and set to GO.
 
I moved the barrel out a turn and can now easily chamber the GO gauge but could not even force the bolt closed on the NOGO. My real concern was that the sweet spot would be too narrow and run a risk of too much headspace. Fortunately, that proved not to be the case. Thanks all!
 
Wow, that's a lot; your dummy round must be tiny.
Savage barrel thread is 20 tpi so one turn is .050"; way more than common GO - NOGO range.

When a friend and I changed barrels on our Savages, we just stripped the bolt and screwed the barrel in until it touched the GO gauge firmly.
 
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Concur on setting the bolt to close on the go-guage. Since you're handloading, it should be no problem for you (sometime with case trimming) to ensure that your cartridges will feed consistently.
 
First time posting here outside of the intro thread, but I've read threads for a long time. Greetings.

I've been handloading since I was 14 (>20 years now...time flies), but am trying to get serious and into PRS competition. Having my M70 rebarreled is a several month process, so like many I am getting into the Savage/Ruger user-replaceable barrel rifles. My goal is a cheap rifle for practice, so a easy to workup load (thus the hybrid ogive), user-swappable barrel are the top priorities. I got a cheap Savage Axis with an -08 bolt face and am putting a Shilen 6.5 CM barrel (26", 1:8") on it. I've got a new SS barrel nut, an action wrench, and GO/NOGO PTG gauges as well as a dummy round that mimics what I'll be shooting (in this case Lapua brass and a 147 Berger OTM Hybrid). Seating depth is capped by the magpul mag length, which is important as PRS competition will need box mags vs single loading. I will measure CBTO before starting work with increasing powder charges, and will probably just use Litz's strategy of big jumps starting at the lands to 0.15" jump in 0.05" increments. This gun will only ever fire my handloads, and I'll measure CBTO and work from that before I start load workup (probably IMR 4350 or SUPERFORMANCE,which gave great velocities and 0.25-0.33 MOA in a rifle I had made for my dad).

With all of that backstory out of the way, here's my question: How important is the GO gauge for safety? I am terrified of excessive headspace, and have the barrel fitted so that the bolt handle couldn't be forced down on the NOGO with a hammer. The bolt will just start to close on the GO gauge, but will not fully close. The rifle will easily feed and chamber my dummy round (virgin Lapua brass run through the sizing die that I'll use), which has the bullet seated at maximum magazine length. My understanding is that while this slightly below spec headspace could cause issues with 1) going into battery or 2) chambering ammo close to maximum allowable dimensions, I am effectively skirting those issues by 1) using a bolt rifle which is obviously going into battery and 2) using exactly one type of ammo which I've verified chambers without difficulty.

Every thread that I see on headspace seems to rapidly devolve into insults and corner cases, with the added problem that many revolve around ARs and highly questionable reloading practices. The discussion that I've seen on this form does a great job of avoiding those pitfalls, so I wanted to post this here both as a help to myself and for possible interest to others.

I would suggest you quit worrying so much about headspace. NOGO is kind of a misnomer. The max headspace for safety is the FIELD gauge. Gunsmiths aim for a headspace dimension that is between the GO and the NOGO that still allows EASY chambering, but it is pretty easy to find factory rifles that are a bit loose. I have a couple that are a thousandth or two OVER the NOGO. That is no big deal however. I just adjust my sizing die a bit to tailor the brass to the chamber. Those rifles don't suffer from lack of accuracy either. The bench rest boys like to play with really tight chambers, but that is a pain in a field rifle. Set your rifle up to a point between the GO and NOGO that gives reliable feeding in all conditions and adjust your sizing die to match.
 
Did savage axis xp make a trigger guard is a one- piece design, looks likes it is made of the same material as the stock and is moulded to fit
 
Did savage axis xp make a trigger guard is a one- piece design, looks likes it is made of the same material as the stock and is moulded to fit
The stock trigger guard/bottom "metal" is one piece looked like the same plastic as the stock. Just to reiterate: this is not a high quality gun. Recoil lugs matter a LOT to me, and this firearm uses one of the wobbliest, cheapest systems that I have ever encountered. Instead of a Rem 700 style washer, it has a cutout on the bottom of the round receiver a the extreme front. A metal key fits into a hollow in the stock on bottom and into this receiver slot on top. When the screws are torqued down, the barreled action cannot fall out of the gun.
 
The stock trigger guard/bottom "metal" is one piece looked like the same plastic as the stock. Just to reiterate: this is not a high quality gun. Recoil lugs matter a LOT to me, and this firearm uses one of the wobbliest, cheapest systems that I have ever encountered. Instead of a Rem 700 style washer, it has a cutout on the bottom of the round receiver a the extreme front. A metal key fits into a hollow in the stock on bottom and into this receiver slot on top. When the screws are torqued down, the barreled action cannot fall out of the gun.
That's the way Tikka does their re coil lugs, also Bat Machining the latter being arguably the top of the line, and not just me running my lips but anyone can look up the equipment list from any sanctioned benchrest event you'll see predominantly BAT actions.
J
 
...this firearm uses one of the wobbliest, cheapest systems that I have ever encountered. Instead of a Rem 700 style washer, it has a cutout on the bottom of the round receiver a the extreme front. A metal key fits into a hollow in the stock on bottom and into this receiver slot on top...
That's the way Tikka does their re coil lugs, also Bat Machining the latter being arguably the top of the line...

Design, material, execution. Fail in any one and the rest doesn't matter. BAT gets it right. Remington used to get it right, but not so much more recently. They even screwed up Marlin after they bought them out. Savage did a good job with the 110 for many years, then all of their machinery got worn out and the guns were pretty rough for a while. They got better again after re-equiping the plant. I have not worked with or examined an Axis, so I cannot speak to their quaility.
 
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