Hearing protection and HD

[Acera]

Ok, how many years did our fighting men go into close combat with out hearing protection??

Yeah, you can still talk to a lot of vets from the service, and they can hear you. They probably fired a few more rounds than you will be in a HD situation.

Supersonic crack, come on folks. It is not that loud.

 

[JohnKSa]

Supersonic crack, come on folks. It is not that loud.

Ever fired a centerfire handgun indoors? I have. It is that loud.

Yeah, you can still talk to a lot of vets from the service, and they can hear you.

I can hear you after my experience but I wouldn't have been able to for a couple of minutes after the shot. There was someone screaming at me from a few feet away and I never heard a thing. After a few minutes my hearing came back (that was a very strange experience, I might add) and I realized that I had been essentially totally deaf for a few minutes.

The long-term hearing loss (yes, from ONE shot) is a bummer and causes me some problems but thinking back to how badly I was impaired immediately after the shot is actually more concerning in terms of trying to function through a similar situation in the future.

 

[jakemccoy]

So, 911 would be on speaker phone, right?

 

[ironcode]

Suppressor, if you can afford it (and you can get through the legalities) is best. Me, if I hear a bump in the night, aside from my gun I'll probably grab my pillow as well and improvise like they do in the movies (you know, shoot through the pillow ). Probably won't look good in court, though

 

[PandaBearBG]

I've never fired a centerfire pistol indoors, but I have fired centerfire rifle indoors along with about 16 other marines in a warehouse, and not a training warehouse, but one down town for MOUT training. We used blanks, but there were about 50 of us in there all at once (it was a large building) that included the 249's. It was loud and deafening and the acoustic boost of the walls was crazy, but a couple days of ringing everything was back again.

Understandably everybody's body reacts differently and I sorry about your hearing. I'm just relating my experience with indoor fire. As for temp hearing loss after inital shots, you just gotta adapt and use everything else that is working mostly eyes and visual cues.

These types of situation are never planned, you are never truely 100% ready and it never EVER works out just as you'd want. If some scraps and bruises are the result appreciate them because its only those injuries and not your life.

 

[JohnKSa]

As for temp hearing loss after inital shots, you just gotta adapt and use everything else that is working mostly eyes and visual cues.

It SHOULD go without saying that if you have to shoot in self-defense without hearing protection that you won't be worried about the lack of hearing protection. It should also go without saying that one shouldn't waste time donning hearing protection if the situation is time-critical. Besides, both statements are moot--reality is that you WON'T worry about hearing protection by the time a situation has deteriorated to shooting, or if the time is so short that there's not a second to spare because other more pressing things will be on your mind.

But that doesn't mean one should completely write off the use of hearing protection in self-defense scenarios. You DON'T "just gotta adapt" if you can manage to don a good quality electronic hearing protection system. If you can't then you can't, but there are definite advantages, both short term and long term if there's time to do so and you have it available.

...but a couple days of ringing everything was back again.

My hearing loss is noticeable, but the sad fact is that even if you can't tell that you lost hearing, if you experienced ringing in your ears, especially ringing that lasted for days, then everything is NOT back again. Ringing is indicative of PERMANENT hearing damage.

 

[jakemccoy]

I've read about quite a few home invasions. I can't imagine putting on some high-tech electronic ear muffs right in the middle of one. I would like to know if anybody here has ever known someone to put on hearing protection in the midst of a real home invasion. By "real", I mean a home invasion with an actual intruder who was intent on causing harm, not a bump in the night that turned out to be the neighbor's kid playing a prank or something like that. I'm not saying that putting on muffs has never been done before or that it can't happen. I'm saying that my skeptical old mind just can't imagine it.

I had a false home invasion one time. Let me tell you. My heart rate went from about 60 bpm to about 200 bpm in about three seconds. It's a strange feeling unlike any other. It's sort of like coming up on an unexpected cliff when snowboarding. In other words, it feels like "hey, this might be the end of it all right now". I would not have wanted to put on electronic ear muffs during my false home invasion, even if I could have. For one thing, I had 911 on the phone and not on speaker phone. That issue is a distant second to the fact that I just would not want electronic earmuffs on my ears while my life is flashing before my eyes.

 

[Acera]

JohnKSa asked:

Ever fired a centerfire handgun indoors? I have. It is that loud.

Yes, quite a few times. I regularly shoot a Sig 9mm indoors, suppressed without hearing protection. We shoot the regular rounds, and the sonic crack is not near as loud as the sound of the bullet hitting the steel plate at the end of the range.

JohnKSa you really do need to check this out, contact a suppressor dealer near you and see if you can set something up where you actually get to hear for yourself what a sonic crack sounds like, without the normal report mixed in. You will probably change your tune when you get to hear it for real.

 

[JohnKSa]

...where you actually get to hear for yourself what a sonic crack sounds like, without the normal report mixed in. You will probably change your tune when you get to hear it for real.

How is that the least bit relevant? I'm not talking about how loud suppressed pistols are but rather how loud unsuppressed pistols are.

If you're telling me that I would be surprised at how much quieter a suppressed firearm is compared to one that is unsupressed, you are wrong. I've fired a variety of suppressed weapons and they are much quieter. As if anyone would need to be convinced that suppressing firearms actually makes them quieter...

I can't imagine putting on some high-tech electronic ear muffs right in the middle of one.

Neither can I. But many home self-defense scenarios start with a "bump in the night" as opposed to a full-blown, kick-in-the-door home invasion. Am I suggesting someone should take a time out in the middle of a home invasion to go look for hearing protection? There's clearly no way any rational person could read my posts and believe that I am.

Of course I'm not suggesting that--neither is anyone else. On the other hand, if you're awakened by a strange noise with no imminent threat apparent, putting on a good set of electronic muffs can actually aid you in identifying and locating the source of the noise as well as protecting your hearing should the unthinkable happen.

 

[LibShooter]

Am I really the only one here who has accidentally fired a round with my hearing protection parked up on my head, leaving my ears unprotected? I've done it indoors at least twice. The ringing went away in 15 to 20 minutes.

Did I cause permanent hearing loss?

 

[hso]

It seems that a number of people in this thread are intentionally misrepresenting keeping active hearing protection available to use should the time permit as fumbling around looking for hearing protection while the alien zombie hordes kick in your bedroom door.

Everyone who has thought using active hearing protection in a home defense situation could be beneficial places it's use behind the primary focus of arming themselves to deal with an eminent threat.

Would I use them? If I had time, sure. That "time" is after my wife and I have secured my daughter's safety by arming ourselves and getting her into our bedroom and we're forted up.

 

[mustang_steve]

For what it's worth, I've had a seriously loud noise in very close proximity to my head occur in my living room (racing bicycle tire @ 150psi blew off the rim about 2/3rds arms length, bike was right in front of a wall, neighbor thought it was a gunshot, called the police, police had a good laugh when they got there). I felt like I had cotton in my ears for close to 3 hours.

A gunshot is certainly louder than that. So really, no defense suitable ammo is going to make it tolerable. Fortunately, the need to defend one's home should be uncommon enough that we may never have to do it, or do it less than a handful of times.

 

[natman]

You will not hear the muzzle blast. You will not feel the recoil.

You may not be aware of the muzzle blast. Your ears will suffer the damage nevertheless.

 

[PT1911]

OR... you could just wear hearing protection during your recreational shooting and hunting and not worry about it in a HD or SD situation... it is repeated exposure to such noises that causes the long term damage. Seeing as most of us are unlikely to be in such a situation anyway, much less many of them, I dont expect to be taking a time out to put on my muffs before protecting myself...


Sure.. you can argue that it only takes one .357 shot in a car to cause hearing damage, (questionable at best) but all I can say to that is it is better than losing my life.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

If you can put on a gas mask in a few seconds, in combat, and go tactical through smudged, dusty lenses, then you can do the same with electronic ear muffs. All you need to do is make it part of your drill. Our soldiers practice the gas mask thing all the time. Try the ear muff thing. If you absolutely can't fuction, then don't do it, but that is more of a personal problem, and not shared by all.

 

[Sav .250]

Order of business:: Be awakened be a loud noise (glass breaking) jump out of bed, bang big toe on night stand. Gather your thoughts. Try an remember where your hearing protection device is. Oh, ya, in the night stand. Jerk draw open. Opps, a little to fall as everything falls to the floor. Must be all the excitememt. Found-um!
Just then the bed room door is flung open..........................................

Bang...Bang. Game over. Better luck next time.

Hearing protection is good no doubt.............at the gun range or other places where loud noises might be a problem.

 

[lobo9er]

some of you guys are going to have hearing problems in the fututre

 

[theotherwaldo]

Yep. But we'll have a future.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Why are people assuming ear protection would be the first item you would go for? It's unquestionably an "only if there's time" item. Instead of press checking your gun for the 6th time while holed up and listening to your heart race, throw some decent amplified ears on. The first item without question is firearm.
I'm not 100% sold on the idea, and talking to 911 dispatch would be an issue (calling 911 is another "if there's time" thing), but I'm not against the idea either.
That's just my opinion. Now, I better get back to listening to my tinnitus thanks to years of "toughing it out" when shooting, working on fast cars, blasting music, using power tools, etc...

 

[jakemccoy]

Calling 911 should definitely be up there on the priority list.

Calling 911 is important for legal reasons. If the 911 dispatcher can capture the entire incident on tape, then you should be golden in court if the DA even charges you. One approach is to call 911 and tell the dispatcher that you're putting the phone down on speaker. Whatever happens, definitely call 911 immediately after shooting someone. Do NOT call your lawyer, or anybody else, first. The time line will be forever set in place. If we didn't have to deal with the legal aftermath, then 911 wouldn't be so high on my priority list.

Calling 911 is also important for practical reasons. If an intruder is in my house and my family is safe behind me, then there is nothing else in my house that is worth risking my life for in a clearing. If you're incapacitated while clearing your house, then that probably means your family dies. I will allow the cops to come and do what they do. If violent intruders were in my home, then I would think of my home as being dangerous like the yard at San Quentin State Prison without the guards around.

Let's not forget the home invasion of the Petit family in Connecticut:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/24/nyregion/24slay.html
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEym_cK579acqUBys6kL2S1PlEqQD9AJRGFG5

 

[iiibdsiil]

When I shot through the floorboard of my car with my 9mm Kahr MK9, I could hear fine immediately after the gunshot. So could the guy sitting next to me. Long story, it's on here somewhere

He was talking on the phone when it happened and had no problems hearing his girlfriend on the other end. It was unexpected to both of us, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

I could also hear fine when I didn't get the muffs on in time at the outdoor range. First time outside like that, you take them off when they call a cease fire. The guy next to me got to firing before I got them back on.

My personal experiences anyways. YMMV.

 

[JohnKSa]

Why are people assuming ear protection would be the first item you would go for?

Because without that strawman there's no way to coherently and rationally argue against it.

...it is repeated exposure to such noises that causes the long term damage.

Repeated exposure is definitely worse, but it is absolutely not true that a single incident can't cause long term damage.

I dont expect to be taking a time out to put on my muffs before protecting myself...

I'll go a step farther. Anyone who "takes a time out to put on their muffs" in a time critical self-defense situation is absolutely barking mad insane.

That's why no one is advocating "taking a time out" to put on hearing protection. Several people ARE advocating putting on good electronic muffs in non-time critical situations (typical bump-in-the-night scenario). Not only could it help protect your hearing should things deteriorate to a shooting, a good set will actually boost your hearing considerably helping you to locate and indentify the source of the noise. In addition, it will eliminate the temporary deafness that some people experience for up to several minutes after firing a shot unprotected.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

911. Right. It takes less time to arm oneself, assess the situation, grab a flashlight, don a bullet resistent vest, and put on amplified ear protection than it does to dial 911, engage in distracting and lengthy conversation with a dispatcher asking all kinds of questions (and THEN she'll send someone), and waiting for the police to arrive (3-20 minutes, at best). Which one will get you killed first, putting on hearing protection (the kind that allows you to hear but blocks a gunshot), or talking to 911? I'm assuming I am talking to folks on this gun-related board that intend to respond armed, not unarmed people who are relying on the police to be their sole protectors.

 

[.38 Special]

You will not hear the muzzle blast.

The phenomenon is called auditory exclusion, and it happens in the brain, not the ear. Imagine being chased by a bear, and getting a scratch from a thorn while doing it. You won't notice the scratch -- your brain has more important things to do at the moment -- but after you've gotten away from the bear, you're still scratched.

If your ears ring for more than a day some portion of your hearing has been destroyed.

Technically, any ringing at all is a sign of damage.

Yeah, you can still talk to a lot of vets from the service, and they can hear you. They probably fired a few more rounds than you will be in a HD situation.

I see vets at my hearing aid practice every day. Were it not for the U.S. military, I'd probably have to find a different line of work. Or at least sell the Mercedez.

Supersonic crack, come on folks. It is not that loud.

The decibel scale is logarithmic, which is to say that a sound at 10 decibels is 10 times more intense than a sound at zero decibels, a sound at 20 decibels is 100 times more intense than the zero decibel sound, 30 decibels is 1000 times more intense, etc.

The threshold for instantaneous hearing damage is thought to be 120-130 decibels. A gunshot from even a "quiet" cartridge will be 140 decibels, and the "loud" cartridges can exceed 170 decibels.

If you fire an unsuppressed centerfire handgun in an enclosed area you are almost guaranteed to damage your hearing.

it is repeated exposure to such noises that causes the long term damage.

I am always gratified to see such opinions. It assures me that I am in a very steady line of work.

 

[jakemccoy]

911. Right. It takes less time to arm oneself, assess the situation, grab a flashlight, don a bullet resistent vest, and put on amplified ear protection than it does to dial 911, engage in distracting and lengthy conversation with a dispatcher asking all kinds of questions (and THEN she'll send someone), and waiting for the police to arrive (3-20 minutes, at best). Which one will get you killed first, putting on hearing protection (the kind that allows you to hear but blocks a gunshot), or talking to 911? I'm assuming I am talking to folks on this gun-related board that intend to respond armed, not unarmed people who are relying on the police to be their sole protectors.

That's just bad advice. You may not know that you don't have to say a word to the 911 dispatcher in order for the cops to show up. You can dial 911 and put the phone down. I just timed it. It takes about 3 seconds. If you have the time, dialing 911 is definitely the smart thing to do from a legal and practical standpoint. The fact that you called 911 BEFORE you shot someone is a good way to relieve yourself of criminal charges. It presents a strong case of self-defense, just to be sure.

Once again, in case you didn't quite get it yet, you can dial 911 and put the phone down. Assuming you want to just live through the home invasion without playing Superman, a smart action would be to hunker down in your safe room, gun pointed at the door, and not roaming around your house like you're invincible. You're not. I cringe every time I hear someone talk about clearing their house, and the person always says it nonchalantly like they have the advantage over the criminal. You don't.

I encourage you to browse my Youtube channel below and listen to some real home invasions where armed homeowners called 911 before shooting. If you want to make sure you look like Superman in front of your wife and kids, then we are on different wavelengths...good luck.