Heavier357 bullets

[Byron]

I have a Cimmaron Model P in 357 4 5/8th" barrel. It was a gift from my wife.It shoots very low(about 10" at 10 yards) with 158 grain bullets(jacketed and lead). As this was a special gift,I do not wish to file the front sight. I note cast bullet Performance makes their 357 bullets in 180,187,200 grain weights. I am after a good plinking round and not trying to set new velocity records. Where can I find data for these weights and any comments on what one would think is the best weight to achieve POA,POI?
Thanks, Byron

 

[Jim Watson]

That is a gross error, worse than my Schofield with the crooked barrel that shot way left. I would contact Cimarron and see what they would do or recommend.

I assume that you have considered the obvious stuff, like whether you get center hits with other guns, especially single actions; trial by other good shot; or shooting off a rest.

Ten inches at ten yards is about a 3/16" sight change, I doubt you will make that up by changing bullets. If you want to try, get the heaviest available.

What powder(s) do you have on hand?

 

[Byron]

I have IMR 4227,Olin 231,Olin 296, and AA #7. Byron

 

[rcmodel]

Cimmaron and other replica's do in fact leave the factory with some excess front sight blade. A lot in fact with some light loads.

This is done so the owner can file the sight down as needed to zero the gun with his load, his hold, and his sight picture.
Better then not having enough blade and shooting way high with no way to fix it!

If you are loading very light loads it will be more pronounced then the same weight bullet driven to max velocity because the light recoil isn't moving the gun up as much during the time the bullet is in the barrel.

Have you tried the 158 at full .357 velocity and see where it shoots with that?

rc

 

[Furncliff]

File the front sight down. Worked on a 1911 for me. But I must be honest I was trying to correct 3" not 10.

 

[kludge]

I am after a good plinking round and not trying to set new velocity records.

Is the 10" low with your loads or factory loads?

 

[Byron]

The groups are with my reloads that I have kept under 357 factory velocities.
I plan to go to the range today or tomorrow and carry some factory loads in 158 gr and 125 grain. I was after a lighter load as I was concerned to many factory loads would be too hard on the gun. I post after I can get to the range. Byron

 

[Bruce H.]

I have a Cimarron Model P with a 4 5/8" barrel. With 158 grain bullets it hits the bullseye level of the target in elevation at ten yards. It shoots lower with lighter bullets, as expected. I have not touched the front sight. My problem is that is shoots to the left. It shoots about 6" to the left with 125 and 148 grain copper plated bullets. But, only about 2" to the left with copper plated, 38 special 158 grain bullet reloads. With .357 mag. JSP factory loads it shoots about 1" to the left of center. I read in John Taffin's "Single Action Sixguns" that he was able to correct shooting high, low, right or left by trying various powders and bullets. I use Winchester 231 powder. Yesterday I received a shipment of some 158 grain, .358" dia. lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. I plan on trying these bullets in my Model P, using Win. 231, to see if they shoot a little more to the center of the target. Shooting 2" to the left of center is not as much of a problem as Byron is having, but I am picky.
On the other hand, I have a Ruger Blackhawk that shoot perfectly to the center of the target, with the rear sight centered using 125, 148 and 158 grain plated bullets.

 

[rcmodel]

You can "turn" the barrel on a single action quite easily. The are usually not very tight on the Cimarron's I have messed with.

You need to make a barrel vice block out of a piece of drilled hardwood, split lengthwise.

Remove the ejector rod assembly and clamp the barrel up tight in a vice using the wood blocks.

Use another stick of hardwood, oak, etc through the frame window to "bump" the barrel threads just a scooch in the direction it needs to go to correct the POI.

If you happen to have one that is very tight, don't get carried away, as you could spring the frame by applying too much force.

rc

 

[Mal H]

rcmodel - You had me confused as to how slightly rotating the barrel was going to fix the 10" down problem. But, you are talking about how to fix Bruce's problem, right?

(Thought I'd mention this before anyone else starts twisting their barrel.)

Byron - I don't think you're going to get away without filing down the front sight. If you go to a lighter bullet (generally giving you a higher speed bullet), it's only going to move the POI even further down. As Jim said, I doubt you can correct 10" by changing bullets or loads, that is if you still want the bullet to exit the barrel!

 

[rcmodel]

Yep!
Bruce's sideways shooter it was!

Byron needs a file and a touch-up blue pin.

Sorry about any confusion.

rc

 

[Bruce H.]

Thanks rcmodel. I think that I will give that a try.

 

[Byron]

I have not had a chance to get to the range on the factory 158's.I live in Murfreesboro and a massive tornado hit the front of my subdivison and destroyed it. The tornado was 1/2 mile wide and left destruction for 15 miles and was an F-3. I saw it coming dead at our house.I took shelter. The tornado turned 200 yards before my house. We are OK and no damage but beyond the 200 yards is destroyed.Two fatalities,a mother and infant daughter. For me and others beyond it,we have all utilities up and running. I hurt for those losing so much. I am a retired ins adjuster and a total house loss is one of the worse tragedies people experience. I'll get back my range data later in the week. Byron

 

[rcmodel]

Glad you were spared!

I've been in, or too near three of them here in Kansas and they aren't any fun, that's for sure!

rc

 

[Byron]

I went to the range today and fired factory Remington 158 gr LSWC and my load equaling that of a 158 gr JHP,SPM primer and 16.6 grains of 296. Both shot to the same POI which was 1 1/2 low using the Canadian Bullseye target.I was quite surprised at the increase upward in POI.Now,I must determine what amount to take off the front sight(I decided to do so as opposed to my first post) and will continued use of 357 rounds,perhaps 300+ rounds a year,losen the Cimarron. Byron