Heckler and Koch 91
- Thread starter d vader
- Start date
- Status
opto_isolator
Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2006
- Messages
- 49
I don't know if anyone knows about heckling a cock, but some may know about a Heckler and Koch 91. 
JustinJ
Member
Btw, what did you pay if you don't mind my asking?
Last edited by a moderator:
Rollis R. Karvellis
Member
Some people feel the H&K 91, is God's gift to man, others think it came from farther south. The original modle from Germany, will go, close to $2000.00, or much more, the Springfield's, seem to be in the $1500.00 range. They shoot well, can be accurate, and easily meet combat accuracy. Also they destroy the brass real good.
Sometime around 1978 or so a friend called me saying he had put a deposit on a rifle at the gun shop and then realized he would not be able to complete the purchase. He didn't want to lose his deposit so he asked me if I would be interested in buying the gun. Mostly to help him out I agreed. It was an H&K M91 that he had in holding. This was my first experience with a military style semi-auto. As I recall the price was $340 brand new.
The 19" barrel makes for a loud report. cases are battered and thrown 30-40 feet. IMO the FAL is a sleeker and slightly better on ergonomics (I have one of those, too). But the 91 is robust, will do anything you need such a rifle to do and is fun to shoot.
Mine was stolen in 1985. In 2003 the LAPD called me saying it had been recovered in a raid on a drug house. After 18 years there wasn't a mark on it. Apparently the drug dealer took care of it.
This is what I bought 33 years ago.
This is what it looks like with the collapsible stock and 30 round magazine. I describe it as an AK on steroids.
I think the plethora of cheaper clones makes selling a genuine H&K difficult.
The 19" barrel makes for a loud report. cases are battered and thrown 30-40 feet. IMO the FAL is a sleeker and slightly better on ergonomics (I have one of those, too). But the 91 is robust, will do anything you need such a rifle to do and is fun to shoot.
Mine was stolen in 1985. In 2003 the LAPD called me saying it had been recovered in a raid on a drug house. After 18 years there wasn't a mark on it. Apparently the drug dealer took care of it.
This is what I bought 33 years ago.
This is what it looks like with the collapsible stock and 30 round magazine. I describe it as an AK on steroids.
I think the plethora of cheaper clones makes selling a genuine H&K difficult.
Ditto on all of the above. I like the ergonomics, they will shoot 3" groups or less at 100 yards with open sights. The post in ring front sight finds alignment easily with the peep. They do kick harder than the FN LAR, or comparable gas operated autoloader of the same weight and calibre, but nothing really objectionable.
They are brass crunchers, not only do they eject the brass with almost as much velocity as the bullet, the fluted chambers impress creases down brass, pretty much destroying it for serious re-loading. I've got one of the Century Arms re-mans. It looks fine, but if you are considering a CAI parts gun, I would suggest you know your 91's very well and know every specification to the thousandth of an inch or you could wind up with an expensive boat anchor that is not reliable.
All that said, if you get a good one, they are very reliable, accurate, rugged, and way cool looking. They get attention on the shooting range.
Just my 2 cents worth.
They are brass crunchers, not only do they eject the brass with almost as much velocity as the bullet, the fluted chambers impress creases down brass, pretty much destroying it for serious re-loading. I've got one of the Century Arms re-mans. It looks fine, but if you are considering a CAI parts gun, I would suggest you know your 91's very well and know every specification to the thousandth of an inch or you could wind up with an expensive boat anchor that is not reliable.
All that said, if you get a good one, they are very reliable, accurate, rugged, and way cool looking. They get attention on the shooting range.
Just my 2 cents worth.
451 Detonics
Member
I have owned 91's, 93's, MP5's and 94's in various configurations...liked them all. When the ban came they all made me a bunch of money as well. Today I own just a single CETME but I still like the design. I have always enjoyed shooting them, a Fleming sear gun (a 94) won me the original Jungle Lane competition 2 years in a row. The design really is a love it or hate it design...no one seems to think they are okay. As stated above the FAL is sleeker and probably my favorite .308 MBR but I do enjoy the 91 platform.
Enjoy yours...
Enjoy yours...
Question for SaxonPig: If your HK-91 was stolen in 1985, and then recovered long after the California AWB (1990 deadline for Roberti-Roos), how difficult was it to get it back from LAPD? I might guess that it had to be removed from California right away, or never there in the first place? Is there some process for late registrants in the case of documented stolen AW's for California residents? I have never heard of such a case, but am curious how that might play out. I can't imagine LAPD releasing anything like that without a court order, and even so, might drag their feet as long as possible. Thanx, SplitHoof.
CutMan
Member
SR9T
I own a newer variant, but everything said in this form to this point is absolutely true. The brass will not be reusable for the most part, but it is crazy accurate and built like a tank. Mine has a 20"barrel and MSG-90 and PSG-1 parts on it, hence the variation. I have kept it stock except for the front grip, which was horrible. Shoot the things... have fun, and they will last longer than your children's children's children. Seriously. hkparts.net is a great source for parts, if you want to freshen either one up a bit (cosmetically, of course). Tell Adam I said 'hi'.
I own a newer variant, but everything said in this form to this point is absolutely true. The brass will not be reusable for the most part, but it is crazy accurate and built like a tank. Mine has a 20"barrel and MSG-90 and PSG-1 parts on it, hence the variation. I have kept it stock except for the front grip, which was horrible. Shoot the things... have fun, and they will last longer than your children's children's children. Seriously. hkparts.net is a great source for parts, if you want to freshen either one up a bit (cosmetically, of course). Tell Adam I said 'hi'.
amd6547
Member
Brass fired in a fluted chamber can be reloaded...if you can find it.
AK103K
member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 7,610
I owned a couple of 91's back in the 80's/90's. Sold both around 2000 for right around $2000 each. Made a bunch more on the accessories, especially the HK claw mounts.
Both of mine were accurate and reliable, as were all the HK's Ive owned. They really arent any heavier than any of the other similar rifles of the era, but their balance is a little different, and the weight slightly more forward.
Their recoil impulse is a little sharper due to the delayed blowback/roller lock system, especially when compared to some of the adjustable gas guns, like the FAL's.
If you dont have a port buffer on them, they do tend to beat the brass up pretty good. With the buffer, there is little damage and the brass is readily reloadable. The fluted chamber just leaves a lot of soot, and some minor scratches. I did find that I was only getting about 6 reloads out of the brass fired in them, compared to 10+ with my M1's/M1A's, which I always attributed to the force of extraction with the delayed blow back system.
The sights and triggers tend to confound many US shooters. The triggers really arent bad once you get used to them, and you dont need to modify them to get good results. Companys like Williams do trigger jobs on them to make them more palpable to trigger sensitive shooters, but they also tend to limit the guns usefulness for anything but target shooting.
I always felt the G3 family had the best combat iron sights of any of them. Once zeroed, they are simple and fast to use. The big "notch" is the combat sight and is used with the front "globe" for CQB, the smaller "V" at the bottom and the "post" to 100 yards, the peeps for farther out.
The claw mounts (HK or ARMS) offer a zero repeatable optics mounting that are easily attached and dismounted. The commercial HK mounts with the rings are not the best if you like your head down and forward. The Germans seem to thing holding your head high and rearward is the way to go. I always found the ARMS flat top mounts to be more versatile and usable. My favorite scope was a Beeman SS-3 1.5x4 on an ARMS mount. The whole thing would fit into a pocket on your utilities or field jacket. With an A2 stock on the gun, you dont need a cheek piece, with reasonable optics, and simply have to slide your cheek up the stocks "ramp" a little for a decent cheek weld.
They offered a couple of versions of folding bipods that clipped to the front handguard. I always found them to be annoying. Most didnt allow vertical adjustment and the gun sat to high when you were prone. When folded, they interfered with your grip on the handguard, and never locked closed tightly, and moved around a lot.
The sling system is what most of the others attempted to copy. I still like theirs the best of most of the others Ive tried.
The biggest thing the HK's had going for them, especially when they were current, was the fact they were "modular", and easily reconfigured. That, and being able to quickly take optics. Something most guns of the age were not. Thanks to them, their early innovations got the juices flowing with the other guns, and were in a better place today.
The downsides for many shooters, were the placement and operation of the charging handle, and the lack of a bolt hold open after the last round. Both are fairly easily overcome with a little practice and familiarization. US shooters seem to be more hung up on the BHO feature. I never thought it was really a big deal, as when the gun stops running, you just reload it, like you do anything else. The G3's/select fire versions do have an additional "paddle" mag release, which the commercial 90 series normally dont. They do make mag changes a bit simpler, but once you figure out how to work the button on the right side, its really not a big deal if you dont have one.
Both of mine were accurate and reliable, as were all the HK's Ive owned. They really arent any heavier than any of the other similar rifles of the era, but their balance is a little different, and the weight slightly more forward.
Their recoil impulse is a little sharper due to the delayed blowback/roller lock system, especially when compared to some of the adjustable gas guns, like the FAL's.
If you dont have a port buffer on them, they do tend to beat the brass up pretty good. With the buffer, there is little damage and the brass is readily reloadable. The fluted chamber just leaves a lot of soot, and some minor scratches. I did find that I was only getting about 6 reloads out of the brass fired in them, compared to 10+ with my M1's/M1A's, which I always attributed to the force of extraction with the delayed blow back system.
The sights and triggers tend to confound many US shooters. The triggers really arent bad once you get used to them, and you dont need to modify them to get good results. Companys like Williams do trigger jobs on them to make them more palpable to trigger sensitive shooters, but they also tend to limit the guns usefulness for anything but target shooting.
I always felt the G3 family had the best combat iron sights of any of them. Once zeroed, they are simple and fast to use. The big "notch" is the combat sight and is used with the front "globe" for CQB, the smaller "V" at the bottom and the "post" to 100 yards, the peeps for farther out.
The claw mounts (HK or ARMS) offer a zero repeatable optics mounting that are easily attached and dismounted. The commercial HK mounts with the rings are not the best if you like your head down and forward. The Germans seem to thing holding your head high and rearward is the way to go. I always found the ARMS flat top mounts to be more versatile and usable. My favorite scope was a Beeman SS-3 1.5x4 on an ARMS mount. The whole thing would fit into a pocket on your utilities or field jacket. With an A2 stock on the gun, you dont need a cheek piece, with reasonable optics, and simply have to slide your cheek up the stocks "ramp" a little for a decent cheek weld.
They offered a couple of versions of folding bipods that clipped to the front handguard. I always found them to be annoying. Most didnt allow vertical adjustment and the gun sat to high when you were prone. When folded, they interfered with your grip on the handguard, and never locked closed tightly, and moved around a lot.
The sling system is what most of the others attempted to copy. I still like theirs the best of most of the others Ive tried.
The biggest thing the HK's had going for them, especially when they were current, was the fact they were "modular", and easily reconfigured. That, and being able to quickly take optics. Something most guns of the age were not. Thanks to them, their early innovations got the juices flowing with the other guns, and were in a better place today.
The downsides for many shooters, were the placement and operation of the charging handle, and the lack of a bolt hold open after the last round. Both are fairly easily overcome with a little practice and familiarization. US shooters seem to be more hung up on the BHO feature. I never thought it was really a big deal, as when the gun stops running, you just reload it, like you do anything else. The G3's/select fire versions do have an additional "paddle" mag release, which the commercial 90 series normally dont. They do make mag changes a bit simpler, but once you figure out how to work the button on the right side, its really not a big deal if you dont have one.
Owen Sparks
member
- Joined
- May 27, 2007
- Messages
- 4,523
I had one. it was accurate and reliable but it mangled the brass and threw it into the next county plus the muzel velocity was really low.
Twiki357
Member
SaxonPig
I share the same amazement expressed by splithoof (Post #9).
If your HK91 was returned to you by LAPD, I assume that you are current or retired LAPD since LAPD has a fixed policy (I think policy #14 or 44) to steal recovered weapons and never return them to their rightful owners. Or has LAPD changed their policy since I escaped california in 2001.
I lost two handguns in an afternoon burglary in 1986. The 2 perps were caught the following morning. Everything they took from my house was recovered EXCEPT my two guns. Funny thing, the charges included weapons possession. MY WEAPONS that the detective said they didn’t recover while looking me straight in the eye.
I share the same amazement expressed by splithoof (Post #9).
If your HK91 was returned to you by LAPD, I assume that you are current or retired LAPD since LAPD has a fixed policy (I think policy #14 or 44) to steal recovered weapons and never return them to their rightful owners. Or has LAPD changed their policy since I escaped california in 2001.
I lost two handguns in an afternoon burglary in 1986. The 2 perps were caught the following morning. Everything they took from my house was recovered EXCEPT my two guns. Funny thing, the charges included weapons possession. MY WEAPONS that the detective said they didn’t recover while looking me straight in the eye.
- Status