HELP! 357 Magnum with Berry's PRN

[powrguy]

I have some Berry's plated round nose 158 grain .357 bullets that I was trying to load for .357 magnums.

I used the Alliant recommended 6.0 grains of Unique, CCI 500 SPP's, and an OAL of 1.570.

Using that OAL results in the bullets seating so far into the case that they seem to be at past the start of the curvature of the round nose bullet. My cases are NOT over-length (they're 1.290), and I don't know if these bullets CAN be loaded without damaging the case mouths by over-crimping. There are no cannelures in these, either.

Anybody?

 

[ReloaderFred]

In loading for revolvers, you're free to use just about any length you choose, as dictated by the length of the cylinder. Seat those bullets out where they need to be and use a light crimp, being careful to not cut through the plating, yet will keep the bullets from walking out of the cases under recoil.

The only caveat is with seating the bullets out farther, you increase the volume of the powder chamber inside the case, so pressure will drop some, thereby reducing velocity a little. It's no big deal, as long as your load is accurate.

If you were seating the bullets deeper, and increasing the pressure, then it's a big deal...

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[powrguy]

In loading for revolvers, you're free to use just about any length you choose, as dictated by the length of the cylinder. Seat those bullets out where they need to be and use a light crimp, being careful to not cut through the plating, yet will keep the bullets from walking out of the cases under recoil.

The only caveat is with seating the bullets out farther, you increase the volume of the powder chamber inside the case, so pressure will drop some, thereby reducing velocity a little. It's no big deal, as long as your load is accurate.

If you were seating the bullets deeper, and increasing the pressure, then it's a big deal...

Hope this helps.

Fred

Thanks, Fred.

I've loaded a few thousand rounds of various ammo, but am still learning.

As long as I'm not over the 1.590 OAL (max. for a .357, as far as I can tell), then "eye-balling" for the curvature/flat-side would be okay, knowing that the velocity will decrease with less seating depth of the bullet. I'll see how that works out, and then adjust powder charge, as needed.

 

[Walkalong]

Load them so the whole diameter portion of the bullet is fully in the case with the curved part outside of the case. Add a medium taper crimp. At 6.0 Grs of Unique you will be fine unless you seated it way too deep.

 

[powrguy]

Bullet depth

Well, I've loaded 50 rounds to test, with medium crimp from the Lee FCD, and OAL of 1.585. Used 5.9 grains of Unique for testing.

We'll see how this works out.


thanks

 

[vaalpens]

As long as I'm not over the 1.590 OAL (max. for a .357, as far as I can tell), then "eye-balling" for the curvature/flat-side would be okay, knowing that the velocity will decrease with less seating depth of the bullet. I'll see how that works out, and then adjust powder charge, as needed.

I normally calculate how deep I can seat my 357sig bullets (I know it is not the same as 357magnum) and use an upside down sized case to verify that the bullet is not seated too deep. If it is too deep, then there won't be a gap between the cases and you will be able to rotate the upside down case without any resistance.

 

[ReloaderFred]

powrguy,

You can ignore the "maximum" OAL for the .357 Magnum, as long as it fits in your cylinder. That was the spec. set up for SAAMI by the industry, but it's really only a guide when it comes to revolvers.

The one thing you don't want to do is load to the leading edge of the cylinder, since bullets "walk out" in revolvers during recoil. If a bullet walks out that has been loaded to the forward end of the cylinder, it will lock up the cylinder. It's not dangerous, but it's a pain in the rear when it happens. Some cylinders are longer than others, so there's some leeway to work with.

Now if you were loading those .357's for a lever action rifle, anything longer than 1.590" probably wouldn't feed from the magazine tube. However for a revolver, the cylinder determines how long you can go, just like a magazine in a pistol does.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[joneb]

I trim all my 357 mag. brass to 1.279" works pretty dang good. I get a perfect roll crimp every time.

 

[PO2Hammer]

To keep OAL's within tolerance I seat round nose bullets deep in 357 brass so that the crimp falls on the nose, where the bullet measures about .350". Then a profile crimp of about .008" turns the brass down onto the nose, preventing recoil from pulling the bullet.

6.0 Unique is an excellent load with any 158 plated bullet. Loaded some today with the Rainier 158 plated FP. Should be right around 900 fps in a 4" revolver.

 

[rfwobbly]

As hinted at, but not specifically stated.... When a revolver bullet does not have a cannelure to place your roll crimp into, then you must defeat the roll crimp found in most revolver seating dies and use a separate taper crimp die.

You stated you were using an FCD, but does it apply a roll crimp or a taper crimp ?

 

[gonoles_1980]

I 3rd the using a tapered crimp on plated bullets. I just press the bullets until they hit a little from the top of the cannelure. 99% of my brass is starline. I use the FCD crimp for my lead bullets.

 

[herkyguy]

I load the same bullets with decent results. It was trial and error mostly and I've since relegated them to .38 loads, but I had a few walk forward in the cylinder under recoil. I kept increasing the crimp until they held up, but didn't push any further since I didn't want to crimp through the plating.

They're good for plinking, but not much more.

 

[TimSr]

I'm assuming we are talking about .357 mag for a revolver.

A non-cannelured plated bullet would not be a great choice for .357 magnum loads, and neither would a taper crimp, as I foresee bullets creeping out unless you load down considerably.

Having said that, load them as long as you can go, without them sticking out of the cylinder.

 

[powrguy]

I'm assuming we are talking about .357 mag for a revolver.

A non-cannelured plated bullet would not be a great choice for .357 magnum loads, and neither would a taper crimp, as I foresee bullets creeping out unless you load down considerably.

Having said that, load them as long as you can go, without them sticking out of the cylinder.

They're for plinking only, and I shoot a Model 19-3. I use the 158gr RMR round nose in my 38 spl loads, with no issues on the bullet length/case OAL.

thanks

LFC is a taper crimp.

 

[gwpercle]

For revolvers , if that OAL is too deep, ignore that setting. Seat the bullet so it looks right, not too far in and not too far out. No crimp groove or cannelure, light roll crimp or taper crimp. I loaded some cast bullets, an NOE 9 mm 125 TC GC bullets sized .357 , into 357 magnum cases , used my 9 mm die to lightly taper crimp them, when shot out of Ruger Blackhawk 357 magnum , absolutely no problems or bullet creep.
Revolvers are flexible about loads, that's why I like them .
The truncated cone bullets shot extremely well ...going to load some more. They grouped better than the cast bullets from a Lee , 158 grain SWC GC mould , sized .358. This surprised me !
Gary

 

[mdi]

A lot of "problems" have been popping up in forums about plated bullets w/o cannelures being used in revolvers. Personally, I wouldn't recommend them. I have used some in my revolvers, but I have 30+ years of reloading experience (and I have found no great benefit over nekkid cast lead bullets nor jacketed bullets). Revolvers usually need a bullet crimp to keep the bullets in place during recoil and the smooth sided plated bullets lend themselves to taper crimping, which may, sometimes not be enough. Roll crimping into the side of a plated bullet can cut through the plaring and result in leading from the plating coming off in the barrel (just my personal experience/observations). So, my only opinions for this thread are use light loads, use a taper crimp and next time get some revolver bullets w/cannalure or crimp groove and roll crimp properly...

 

[gonoles_1980]

I have to agree with mdi, you want a cannelure, and you want a tapered crimp on a plated bullet. On my 44 mag I was using a roll crimp on plated, I was getting a few bullets where a small piece of the plating was getting torn off when I fired. Switched to a tapered crimp, haven't had an issue since.

I don't know who it was, but someone did a study that showed for lead, the roll crimp was more accurate, while the taper crimp was better on plated bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

I have to agree with mdi,

Me too.

Medium Taper Crimp on .44 Spl.

 

[powrguy]

I'm gonna use up the couple hundred Barry's plated RN that I have, and then continue to use the RMR TCFN lead 158 grain I've been using. They are great in my .38 spl loads, and I'll use them now in my .357 magnum loads, too. They're just used for paper-punching for the most part.



thanks to all who responded

 

[mdi]

Medium Taper Crimp on .44 Spl.

__________________

Ahhhh (drool), .44 Special...

 

[herkyguy]

I bought those Berry's bullets when i was new to reloading..... Still got about 250 of them to go. I use them with light loads to shoot through my Winchester 1873 and that's about it. I don't want to send lead down that barrel if it's getting upwards of 1000 fps.