Help/advice with a pair of Police Positives

[Pepe Domingo]

I just received a pair of Colts from my dad .

This one I remember him buying. It was probably 1983. It was NIB and has been fired maybe 12 times. The nickel has a cloudy appearance that will not rub out with oil. I think I remember reading somewhere that nickel can get stained if using certain cleaners. Is this what happened? Is there any hope of getting it shiny again? It is a Police Positive marked as such on the barrel with .38 SPECIAL CTG. underneath. Serial is 06501R. I did not know Police Positives were made in the 80's. Is it odd?

I have no idea where he got this one from. I assume it is pretty old. Serial is 186730. Caliber is marked .32 Police CTG. Is that .32 S&W Long? Is it old?

Thank for any help given.

Pepe Domingo

 

[Gordon]

Way cool, the first and (almost) the last PPs! Well the first is made before 1925 I believe because they started using wood grips then. The last is the model that looks the best IMHO as the very last PPs had a full under lug and weren't quite as well balanced. Don't monkey with the finish, buffing ect. it will only get worse, enjoy! Not quite sure but I THINK .32New Police is .32S&W long, BUT there was a .32 Colt Long also. This needs to be qualified by Olf Fuff et. all.

 

[Bart Noir]

The newer one is a Police Positive Special. They just stopped putting the "Special" on the name when they started using the partially shrouded barrel. And it is a nice gun. I sold mine (bought it used) only because the timing was so bad it shaved jacket pieces off the bullets and locked up the cylinder every few shots. Now I wish I saved it and hunted for a gunsmith who can work on the old Colt design. Well, not literally hunted, don't start worrying about a wacko on the board!

Bart Noir
Merry Christmas to all

 

[dfariswheel]

The older gun's age depends on the exact model.
In those days, Colt made the Police Positive AND the Police Positive Special.

The PP was made in calibers like the .32 and .38 S&W.
The PPS was offered in calibers like the .32-20 and .38 Special.

If the gun is a PP model, it was made in 1922-23.
If it's a PPS it was made in 1919-20.

These older Police models are fairly common, Colt having made hundreds of thousands over the years.

The newer Police Positive with the shrouded barrel was made for only a few years in the later 1980's.

Since there was low production, and the nickel finish is VERY rare, value on this one will be high, and will increase.
Because of the limited numbers made, collectors are actively looking for these rarer Colt's, so keep that in mind.

If you have the original box or any papers, hang tags or other box contents, protect them and keep them as that will increase collectors value.

There is nothing that can be done for the nickle finish that won't damage it.

 

[Pepe Domingo]

Thanks for the information.

Its a shame about the finish. I think I am the one that actually did it when I was young and foolish and in a hurry to clean.

They are making me hunger for more colts. I am a born auto pistol guy. I have a single Blackhawk collecting dust amongst a pile of wondernines.

This could be a new beginning for me.

 

[Old Fuff]

I suspect that the nickeled gun has a cloudy finish because someone wiped it down with a solvent designed to desolve copper and nickel. However don't give up! Get a tube of high-quality chrome polish (one source is Brownells at www.brownells.com) and use a little bit on a soft cloth while you HAND POLISH the finish. This will not damage the present plating and the shine will probably come back. When you are done don't oil the nickel, give it a good coat of wax (also available from Bownells). Unlike oils and solvents the wax will protect the plating but not harm it. Go slow and use pleanty of elbow grease. I have restored the finish on a number of guns, including antiques using this method.

Edited to add: Your second (blued) revolver is a Police Positive, not a Police Positive Special. If you look you'll notice that the cylinder is shorter then the one on your nickeled gun. It is chambered to use the .32 Colt New Police cartridge, which is identical in all important respects to the .32 S&W Long. It will also fire the .32 S&W (Short) cartridge, but I can think of no good reason too do this. It will not work with either the .32 Long Colt or .32 Short Colt cartridges.

 

[Pepe Domingo]

Thanks for the help, everybody.

I will try the products from Brownells and see if that nickle can be restored.

The newer police positive sure fits my hand as about as perfect of any other handgun I have ever held.

It is hard to believe that the older police positive was considered state of the art in weaponry at one point. I would not want to be shot with it, but it still seems so anemic. How could a cop have felt safe with that thing eighty years ago?

 

[Old Fuff]

Then as now, police/bad guy shooting confrontations were usually at very close range - often measured in feet, not yards. That, and the state of medical practice (or lack of same) made wounds from a smaller caliber more lethal in the long run, if not the short.

Last but not least, it's more about where and what the bullet hits rather then the size that counts. Many of those old timer's were dead shots - in the full meaning of those words.

 

[Dr.Rob]

That newer model looks like a VIPER... a limited edition Colt Police Positive. It's fairly rare, and a short production run.

The .32 New Police is Colt's answer to SW .32 Long... it's the same Ctg, just given a different 'brand name' so Colt didn't have to put SW on the barrel.

I'll need my little blue book to get the exact date of MFG. for the older one.

 

[Pepe Domingo]

I have seen a VIPER on gunbroker and it does indeed look the same. However, wouldn't it be marked "VIPER" instead of Police Positive?

 

[Old Fuff]

The VIPER was identical to the POLICE POSITIVE of that era except that it had an aluminium frame rather then a steel one. Incidentally the nickel plated finish on your Police Positive Special (3rd. Issue) increases its value by 10%. The 3rd. Issue guns were only made for two years - 1977 and 1978.

 

[Dr.Rob]

OK... so I've been corrected. I hate it when he's right.

however, if you post the first few numbers of the serial #, with xx's as in 423xx, we can likely tell you when the older one was made.

 

[Old Fuff]

Dr.Rob:

He already did. The serial number is 1867xx, the revolver is a .32 Police Positive (not Special) and it was made in 1922.

The Old Fuff is never wrong, but is often hopelessly confused ...

Edited to add: If he was so darned smart he would have bought a Police Positive; 3rd. Issue or Viper when they were brand new.

 

[Pepe Domingo]

Wow, hard to believe that something my father bought on a whim at a gunshop could be collectable.

I was about 12 at the time and a serious gun nut for several years. I saved enough money to buy a Ruger MKII and begged my father for a long time to go with me to purchase it. He finally relented, despite the fact that he had about zero interest in firearms. As I was checking out my MKII he spied that shiny Colt. It was probably pretty cheap as the wondernine craze was really beginning to hit full stride. IIRC we shot it the first time we took out the MKII. There was half a box of shells with it, so that is probably all it has been shot. Just sitting in a gun rug in his dresser drawer for close to 20 years.

Boy how times have changed, and that was not all that long ago. I still have the MKII and the Colt will make a nice neighbor for it in the safe. You could say that I still have my first rimfire and centerfire handguns. Many years and many, many, many firearms later I have come full circle.

Geez.....now I need to buy a lot of Colts. Lets see......Python, King Cobra, Anaconda, Detective Special and , god forbid, a 1911 might just round it out.

Thanks again.

 

[Old Fuff]

It might be advisable to not store the nickeled gun in a rug or soft case. Sometimes these are treated with something to help protect a blued gun against rust, but they can cause nickel to tarnish. When you get the nickel plate as bright as you think its going to get, give the plated surfaces a good coat of wax and store the revolver in a box that won't absorb water. For a gun of that size I've used an inexpensive child's pencil box.

You might be suprised at the number of guns that were made during the last 50 (or even 20) years have become collector's items. For those who are knowledgeable there is gold in them thar hills ..

Incidentally, because of its excellent and original condition the value of your .32 Police Positive is going up too - and this will continue in the future. Unfortunately the poor Ol' Fuff can't find them at the rock-bottom prices he used to anymore. (sob)

 

[Dr.Rob]

Wow nothing like feeling like an idiot twice in one thread. (Note no self read more carefully).

RL Wilson's book lists that as 1923.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Old Colt .32

I would like to know if there is any ammo left with the .32 pistol and what it says. I have some old Colt marked beass in my collection and will have to dig it out. I seem to remember some Colt cases seemed to be thinner than the Smith .32's.

Some of my old brass might feel at home with an old pistol.
Fitz

 

[Pepe Domingo]

Sorry "Fitz", but the old Colt .32 came without any food. Did Colt actually make their own cartridges at some point, or were they just labeled by them?

 

[Old Fuff]

Actually Colt did make ammunition at one time, but it was during the cap & ball era.

Both Colt and Smith & Wesson were unhappy if they had to put anything on their guns that related to they’re other rivals. But at times this would seem unavoidable when the barrel had to be marked to indicate what cartridge the gun was supposed to use. So in the case of three S&W cartridges, the .32 S&W Long, the .38 S&W and the .38 S&W Special; Colt got the ammunition companies to make a nearly identical cartridge that was fully interchangeable with the S&W equivalents. So for no really good reason we got the .32 Colt New Police, the .38 Colt New Police and the .38 Colt Special.

Shortly after World War Two the ammunition makers got tired of this and dropped the Colt headstamped rounds, and they are collector’s items these days, as Paul noted.

If you are lucky enough to own a Colt Police Positive or later Police Positive Special marked “.32 Colt New Police†that’s in shooting shape simply use .32 S&W Long cartridges in it.

There is another revolver that preceded the Police Positive called the Colt New Police (that’s the name of the gun) that is often chambered to use a different cartridge – the .32 Long Colt and/or the .32 Short Colt. This is an entirely different line of cartridges, and they do not interchange with the other .32 rounds discussed above.

 

[Gordon]

Uh I just had to buy the transitional .32 'Pocket Positive' revolver (1910) that says 'police positive' on right side of barrel and left side of barrel reads: ' for S&W cartridges". Oh how I bet Colt hated to print THAT!

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup … you can safely say they held their noses on that day. On the other hand Smith & Wesson were none to happy with “.45 Colt.â€