Help me build this AR!

[AKElroy]

I know next to nothing about this topic, but I do know what I need this rifle for. I hope this group can help me. First, my budget including optics will be $1500 max. I need the rifle to perform the following functions:

1. It must shoot 1 MOA. It is an OCD thing for me, I need to be able to see tight groups or it will get left in the safe.

2. It must have a 16" barrel. More to follow on that.

3. It must be in .223 /5.56 for cheap practice and plinking.

4. It will be a bedside gun with a quality reddot and light


5. It will be used as a ranch gun as well as home defense; my ranch vehicle is a tiny Suzuki Samurai, so having a short overall length is vital. Ditto for the CQB aspect of HD. Walking-up pigs in heavy cover will be a frequent event, so still another reason for the short overrall length.

6. Optics are most likely to be Aimpoint, so figure $500 of the total $ for that.

7. Quality, rugged parts are critical; this rifle will be beat-on like a rented mule.
How would you folks put this together???

 

[HOOfan_1]

Shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards will probably be kind of hard without magnification.

I'd probably buy this barrel

http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-matchtm-223-wylde-barrel-16

and some flavor of Midwest Industries Free float handguard

 

[Ibmikey]

I build AR's all the time and do the research ahead of time as to just what i expect to do with the rifle. You have stated your desires expecting the weapon to be multi task oriented so if it were my project I would determine the parts by brands and expectiations. Asking others to build your rifle is simply receiving other persons desires and prejudices, i prefer certain barrels but others would disagree but it is my choice and i make it.
I guess my point is: Read the many posts on building AR's, research the various items, set weight limits, the length and accessories (which add to weight) you want on the rifle and begin accumulating parts knowing you can change or modify as the build progresses. Good luck!

 

[AKElroy]

Shooting 1 MOA at 100 yards will probably be kind of hard without magnification.

I'd probably buy this barrel

http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-matchtm-223-wylde-barrel-16

and some flavor of Midwest Industries Free float handguard

Agreed. Your barrel suggestion is what I am looking for; whether or not I can keep shots MOA is always a big if; I just want the gun to be capable of it with a 16" tube. This gun will not see a lot of hiking, so weight is not a critical issue except for shoot-ability; if it is too front heavy it could be a challenge for off-hand shots.

 

[David4516]

I'd go with a mid-length gas system and a light-weight "pencil" barrel. I don't think the heavy barrels do you any good considering that most of them and thin under the hand guard anyway. They just make the gun muzzle-heavy

Free-float tube would be good from what I hear (my AR doesn't have one so I can't say from first hand experience how much this helps)

Ammo will be a big factor too if you're looking for 1 MOA or better. Do you reload? Also what bullet weight to you want to shoot? This will determine what barrel twist rate will be best. I pretty much just shoot 55gr so 1:9 twist works fine for me...

I'm told that the chrome lined barrels are less accurate compared to the plain barrels, but I don't know how much truth there is in this...

 

[Inebriated]

Look at BCM's SS410 barrels. They make several uppers with a mid-length SS410 barrel and a free float handguard that'll produce excellent accuracy. They also have their $70 BCG/CH deal going still, as well.

Personally, I'd be inclined to go this route...
BCM SS410/DDLR2 16" Upper: $700 + $70 for BCG/CH deal. The A2 FSB is bombproof, as is the DD rail. Put yourself on a notification list, and snag when it's available. The same thing with their KMR is available now for $55 more.
BCM Blem Lower: $325 + $15 for the Mod 0 Stock. You could go any route on the lower, but consider the parts quality. The BCM stock is durable as can be (watch some of their drop tests), and the lower comes with a very well-staked castle nut, a 7075 buffer tube, H buffer, and the blem is likely only a finish concern. You could certainly build your own for less than $340, but I'd be surprised if it were significantly less for comparable parts. And if durability is on your mind, those are the parts I'd look at.
DD Rear Sight: $73. Again, bombproof.
Total for rifle; $1183.

Gives you $320 to work with for an optic. An Aimpoint ACO will run you $393. Shipping from BCM and G&R each is about $15, so you're looking at right about $1600 total for everything shipped, plus whatever your FFL charges.

Slightly over-budget, but I think it's worth it given the quality of everything involved.

 

[Dr.Rob]

This: Model One "varmint" upper on the lower of your choice. I used a Noveske. You can choose an adjustable stock or a Magpul fixed if you like a bit shorter fit than the A2. You still have enough rail to mount a light by the optic or out front on the fsb.

 

[Tirod]

A precision 16" midlength upper with no-rail tube free float. The rest of it base line AR stuff, as money wasted on it will detract from the expense of a good barrel and trigger.

Forget BUIS, the Aimpoint Pro level optic is good enough - except most red dots aren't going to hold 1MOA with a 2MOA dot. This is where the "precision range gun" interferes with the "practical field gun." It needs some more thought.

When S&W offers the M&P with nitride barrel, it's about it, save the optic. And if it wasn't for the 1 MOA precision range gun requirement, I wouldn't even bother with a free float. They don't do that much, but they do siphon off $150 just to be an expensive accessory mount. I did that - and in the field a free float has to be carefully handled as it will ring like a little bell whenever a branch slaps against it.

The standard 2MOA issue gun with handguards will hold a ten inch circle at 500 yards, plenty good for a rare shot at a pig that far. Be careful about the precision requirement forcing you to accept other negatives to get it.

 

[strambo]

A good barrel, trigger and FF rail should get you MOA with match grade ammo it likes (with a magnified optic mounted even if only for accuracy testing.)

Military grade ammo like M193/M855 is only good for 2-4MOA with 3-ish being typical.

I know an OCD thing is hard to resist, but practically it doesn't matter. I zero'd an AR with 75g ammo I was hoping would be 1.5MOA and was getting 3 MOA and disappointed. I was steadily banging 24" and 12" gongs at 500yds with it and a 3x ACOG. ~80%+ hit rate after 1 sighter to get my hold-off. My hit rate stayed the same when I ran out of 75g and switched to 55g Win M193 clone. Again, 1 sighter for the different velocity/POI and I was on again.

 

[AKElroy]

A good barrel, trigger and FF rail should get you MOA with match grade ammo it likes (with a magnified optic mounted even if only for accuracy testing.)

Military grade ammo like M193/M855 is only good for 2-4MOA with 3-ish being typical.

I know an OCD thing is hard to resist, but practically it doesn't matter. I zero'd an AR with 75g ammo I was hoping would be 1.5MOA and was getting 3 MOA and disappointed. I was steadily banging 24" and 12" gongs at 500yds with it and a 3x ACOG. ~80%+ hit rate after 1 sighter to get my hold-off. My hit rate stayed the same when I ran out of 75g and switched to 55g Win M193 clone. Again, 1 sighter for the different velocity/POI and I was on again.

Since HD will be the primary intended use, the red-dot makes since, but I'm not married to it. I have an older Aimpoint 9000L on an AK Ultimak rail, and it is incredibly durable. I've run that rig until the handrails smoked, and had the weapon fall from a 4' plant ledge. Still holds zero perfectly.

That said, if I am able to build a real shooter in this configuration I may consider a low power variable with an IR. Would welcome suggestions for that as well. Battery life is a real consideration, as is durability. It would need to be as fast to acquire as a standard 2moa dot. does such an animal exist?

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I built one on the cheap that will keep them just over 1" at 100 yards my next build
will have a white oak barrel on top of it http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=250

 

[strambo]

You are definitely on the right track with the red dot (Aimpoint specifically) for HD, it is the best option by far IMO. It is the 1MOA requirement that doesn't jive with the RDS or HD distances. 1 MOA isn't needed at all (or realistically achievable with a dot and defensive ammo) for HD and ranch use.

You could get a good quality 16" carbine with a chrome barrel for HD/ranch use. Then, down the road add another upper with a match barrel and a magnified optic. Push 2 pins and you can scratch the 1MOA itch with match grade ammo and a scope and just as fast get it back in HD config.

My HD AR is a 10.5" SBR with an Aimpoint micro. I have no idea what MOA it can shoot. It did just fine at a CQB carbine course out to 100yds though.

 

[Gordon]

BCM® RECCE-16 KMR13 Mk2 (Dark Bronze) and save for this ACOG
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-RECCE-14-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/143.htm and save for the ACOG TA 31
www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-acog-4x32-ecos-dual-illum-scope-ta31-ecos.html
And you will prolly get what you want.
Next tier down would be :
www.opticsplanet.com/burris-mtac-ballistic-cq-1-4x24-riflescope.html and something like this:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...id/99213/COLT+LE6920-MPBR+5.56+16+30RND+BLK-R

 

[Gordon]

the second combo would meet your dollar figure and could meet the 1 MOA standard with the right ammo.

 

[jakk280rem]

This in stock upper. $715+70 for BCG and CH. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...r-Group-MI-p/bcm-urg-ss410-16mid-mi-ssk12.htm

This optic. $424. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Aimpoint-PRO-Patrol-Rifle-Optic-p/aimpoint-pro-12841.htm

Something like this lower, or pick your stock. $190. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15587/category/4282/


Total is $1399. Call it 1500 with shipping, bgc and a couple mags. This will give you a stainless barrel that has been repeatably shown to produce MOA or better accuracy. 1:8 twist for maximum ammo weight compatibilty. A slim sturdy modular handguard for the maximum in flexibility and the minimum weight. I'd shoot it like it's is and maybe plan on a trigger upgrade at a later date.

 

[Gordon]

I agree with the above whole heartedly but althought the Aim point pro is a really really great choice for CQB and body shots way out there you are gonna need at least 3x or greater magnification to achieve MOA groups so I still think a Burris or Vortex 1-4x on a cantilever mount is a better option for his overall requirements

 

[jakk280rem]

Agreed. Luckily there are a bunch of options in his price range.

How about this? Burris Fastfire III $197. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/62...t-sight-with-picatinny-mount-matte?cm_vc=S014

And a Leupold VX-Hog with pig-plex reticle $200
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/33...m-pig-plex-reticle-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Puts him over budget a little and doesn't include a scope mount. But it turns his rifle into a real chameleon. He could save a bit by downgrading his upper a bit but I would be hesitant to do that. I have the 18" version of that barrel and like it alot.

The AdCo Recon cantilever mount is on sale for $162. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...pe-mount-picatinny-style-ar-15-flat-top-matte

American made QD goodness right there.

 

[MistWolf]

AKElroy, requiring the rifle to hold 1 moa while using cheap ammo is unrealistic.

For a shooter lacking experience with the AR, buying anything than a mid-length carbine (or perhaps a Colt 6920 with it's carbine length gas system) in the most basic configuration and shooting it until discovering what works for them and what doesn't, is a complete waste of money.

Until a shooter has enough experience and knowledge to know what to look for to ensure reliable function, they should stick with getting a basic carbine from Colt or BCM to make their introduction into the world of ARs as painless as posible

 

[jakk280rem]

I don't recall anywhere the OP stated that he required moa with any ammo. Considering some of the ammo made in 223 and 5.56 that would be unrealistic indeed. But I don't think the learning curve on the rifle he stated he wanted is too steep. The 6920 is a great rifle, but it's a bit outside his envelope of wants. There are better options out there that are just as durable, more accurate and will just as ably give him a feel for the Stoner design.

 

[strambo]

No one firearm can be optimized for multiple requirements. In this case the yin of 1 MOA vs. the yang of HD.

I believe in optimizing for the most critical requirement and accepting "good enough" for the rest. If the OP finds himself fighting for his life in the middle of the night at close quarters...I'm guessing 1 MOA and a magnified optic (even a 1-4x) isn't gonna matter a whit.

A 10"-16" chrome bore AR with an Aimpoint and light will excel at HD, be very good as a ranch rifle and suitable for open combat out to 300yds.

 

[MistWolf]

I don't recall anywhere the OP stated that he required moa with any ammo

1. It must shoot 1 MOA. It is an OCD thing for me, I need to be able to see tight groups or it will get left in the safe

It isn't that the learning curve would be steep. it's that a shooters new to the AR won't know how they want their ARs configured until they shoot it a few times. If they can shoot groups acceptable to the intended mission with $35 snap in handguards, why spend $200 or more for a free float tube?

The Colt 6920 or a BCM basic carbine us perfectly suitable for the needs AKElroy described and if the FSB gets in the way of the optic, it's no problem to trim it

 

[1911 guy]

I tend to agree with the others. I'd build the rifle with a decent barrel and trigger, free float handguard and either the Aimpoint or very low powered optic. I lean toward the RDS.

There's nothing that says a 16" rifle can't be accurate, but build it for a purpose. Too much "multi-tasking" can lead to compromises you won't be content with down the road.

 

[AKElroy]

AKElroy, requiring the rifle to hold 1 moa while using cheap ammo is unrealistic.

For a shooter lacking experience with the AR, buying anything than a mid-length carbine (or perhaps a Colt 6920 with it's carbine length gas system) in the most basic configuration and shooting it until discovering what works for them and what doesn't, is a complete waste of money.

Until a shooter has enough experience and knowledge to know what to look for to ensure reliable function, they should stick with getting a basic carbine from Colt or BCM to make their introduction into the world of ARs as painless as posible

I am leaning in this direction. I like the features of the 6940 a little better than the 6920 and cannot find a rail I like better for less with the other included features. It will take me over budget once the optic is thrown in, but with Colt teetering on the brink it should hold its value if I tire of it.

 

[AKElroy]

I tend to agree with the others. I'd build the rifle with a decent barrel and trigger, free float handguard and either the Aimpoint or very low powered optic. I lean toward the RDS.

There's nothing that says a 16" rifle can't be accurate, but build it for a purpose. Too much "multi-tasking" can lead to compromises you won't be content with down the road.

I never intended to be able to shoot sub MOA groups with a 2 MOA RDS, I do, however, want the carbine to be capable of it with the right ammo and scope. As for accuracy, since I am leaning toward the 6940, is there a drawback to the fast 1/7 twist? I see folks touting a slower 1/8 twist, what is the reason?

 

[1911 guy]

1:7 is not needed to stabilize any of the bullets you can get either in loaded ammunition or to reload. 1:8 will handle all these.
However, 1:7 is perfectly acceptable, even though its real purpose is to stabilize the very long tracer round.
A lot of us, me included, have 1:7 barrels because they are more than adequate and are readily available.

The 1:8 is what people have found works very well with the available match and heavy varmint bullets. These barrels also have a slight (and I do mean very slight) advantage in accuracy because while most 1:7 are chrome lined, most 1:8 are not.

I have shot everything from 55gr FMJ to 68gr match in my 14.5" 1:7 twist with good results. Not consistent 1 MOA, but very acceptable for a carbine with mixed brass.