Help me choose a caliber!

[RPRNY]

Bought a NIB 30-06 S&W I-Bolt in a boozy Gun Broker foray two years ago as a wet weather don't care rifle. Came with $100 of Williams sights on it and was $320 out the door of my FFL, so I wasn't too regretful.

Never could get it to shoot in the cold. Light primer strikes.

Sent it in to S&W last week and got a call this morning. Irreparable and obsolete. They are offering an S&W M&P AR in 22 LR (in which I have no interest)or a TC Venture in any caliber. I am in no way displeased by this response. It seems perfectly fair and reasonable.

So, trying to decide what caliber. I bought the Ibolt in 30-06 when we lived in NY and most of my hunting was in New England as a do-all wet weather rifle. I have a very nice Howa Golden Bear (Sako Finnbear license infringement) in 30-06 so see no need to replace the Ibolt with 30-06 in any event.

We moved to CO last Fall and antelope, mulies, and possibly elk are now on the cards. I am leaning towards 7mm Remington Magnum. I don't have a magnum and have never felt the urge, but WY antelope are a long way off. I suppose I have a gap in my portfolio between 222 Remington and 6.5x55, but it's a fairly small gap.

Options I am considering:

25-06
280 Remington
7mm Rem Mag

The 25-06 makes for a very good antelope rifle and does fill the gap between .224 and .264 I suppose, but there's a gap for a reason. I'm just not very interested in 24-25 calibers.

The 280 Remington has always interested me but ballistically, a 7mm-06 seems redundant. The BC improvement of the 28 cal bullets don't seem worth assuming a new caliber, brass, dies etc.,

The 7mm Rem Mag is a popular caliber out here. Factory ammo is readily available if needed and it seems like a versatile cartridge with the ability to reach out for antelope, do well for mulies, and even serve for elk. That TC only offers a 24" barrel is not ideal but hardly a deal breaker.

The Venture is also offered in 300 WSM, 300 WinMag and 338 WinMag, but they are all above my recoil tolerance with the 7mm Rem Mag right at the top.

I am clearly leaning towards the 7mm Rem Mag but I have no magnum experience so I am open to ideas and the experience of others.

Thanks very much.

 

[courtgreene]

if it were me, 7mm-08. But it's not me. I don't have one and the more I see its "numbers" I wish I'd started with it instead of a .308. So I guess that's why I'm suggesting it.
If the venture is offered in .300 WSM then I think you'd be surprised. Mine doesn't recoil much at all. In fact I generally offer it to people who I know are recoil shy at the range. If recoil is all that's stopping you, then I'd go that way.

 

[SouthTex]

rifle choice

I'd go with the "06 use 165 for deer, antelope. elk / moose I'd use 180's. But I'm a bit old school. Been reloading 30.06 for the last 37 years. Mostly use for deer but I did kill a nice moose in Wyoming back in 79 and got a nice 8" Nilgi bull here in South Texas last year. My main 06 hasn't seen a factory round since about 1978. Luck SouthTex

 

[Inebriated]

I'd opt for the 7mm Rem Mag. Recoil of it is similar to .30-06 in comparably-weighted guns, it's versatile, and as you say, it's readily available near you.

 

[MachIVshooter]

7 mag. I love both the .25-06 and .280, but realistically, they don't do much that your 6.5x55 won't. A tad more horsepower and a little flatter shooting, but mostly academic.

The 7mm RM, on the other hand, has quite a lot more oomph, able to drive high BC 165-175 gr bullets at 3,000 FPS

 

[moxie]

Have you looked at the .270?

 

[Don McDowell]

Stay with the 06, load it with 165 gr bullets, there's nothing that's not going down from a single shot place where it needs to go from any reasonable distance.

 

[RPRNY]

I have another 30-06, the Golden Bear. I would never be without one. This is "what else?"

On the 270 Win, I have an inexplicable dislike for it. I have seen its effectiveness in the field. I am well aware of its proven track record of success. I have no credible critique of the cartridge. The advice is unquestionably sound. I just won't have one.

 

[moxie]

Perfect!

 

[zb338]

The 30/06 you have is a fine rifle no need to buy anything more. If
you have the hots to buy a rifle get a nice bolt action .270 it shoots
flat and has enough power for most anything in Wyoming even elk
with the bigger bullets.
Zeke

 

[Gtscotty]

I wasn't a fan of the .270 until I got an M70 so chambered last year and put a couple hundred rounds through it, it hits hard, shoots flat and the recoil is not objectionable. Now I'm kind of attached, in fact I'm planning on starting work on a mule deer and elk load as soon as the white stuff goes away and wind settles a bit. As it is, I took two Wyoming antelope with the .270 last year..... They weren't quite far enough away to be safe.

If you really are dead set against the .270, I'd say 7 mag, it's probably a bit much for antelope, but should be a decent all-arounder.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

7 mag or 25-06 are both fine choices and I own each myself. I can't speak to the .280 as I have no experience with it. To me, not a lot of difference in recoil between the 7mag and 25-06, I would probably give the nod to the magnum, only because factory ammo is probably easier to get . If you reload, this is a moot point.

 

[captain awesome]

I have always been a fan of the 25-06. What a terrific ,fast, flat shooting cartridge. plenty of power to put down deer and antelope, good range, I know it is close to the diameter of the 6.5 but I don't think you would regret it. That being said the 7mm mag would fill your gap between the 6.5 and 30-06 nicely. tough call.

personally I know you aren't considering it but the 338 win mag is a great elk cartridge. I have one with a muzzle brake on it, and the recoil is very manageable. I know that would be extra money for you, but you might consider it if you're serious about elk hunting. You could bag a moose or a good sized bear with it too.

 

[RPRNY]

Just to reiterate the original post parameters:

The new Venture is a no cost replacement for the Ibolt.

I am not going without a 30-06, I have another.


On the 270, I will attempt to give it fair consideration; I don't know where my animosity towards it comes from.

 

[WestKentucky]

I would be looking at the 338 winmag. You have the 30-06 which is the top to bottom North American rifle (one of a few) but for long range and big critters I would want big heavy bullets. Recoil on the one I shot was stiff, but not untolerable.

Your animosity towards .270 sounds like my animosity towards 7mag. The 7mm magnum is know for being a lot of bark and only s little more bite than the 30-06. Seems a lot more recoil and noise gained than anything measurable on the bullet.

 

[ironworkerwill]

I'd go with the 7mm RM. I share your dislike for .270win I don't know why either.

 

[Jason_W]

You have your bases pretty well covered with the rifles you have. The 7mm will potentially do what your '06 will do with greater reach, but how likely are you to shoot at game past reasonable '06 ranges?

Likewise, the .338 Win mag is good for game up to the size of elk and moose at fairly long distances, but will you need that power enough to justify the cost of ammo as well as the recoil?

If it were me, I would actually go with the .204 Ruger or the .243. The .204 just because the round intrigues me personally. The .243 because it's a fairly light kicking round that can be either a varminter or a medium game rifle. It might also be good to have a good introductory round on hand in case you have an opportunity to introduce a newbie to deer hunting and feel so inclined.

Alternatively, if I was feeling really boring and practical, I'd get another .30-06 and set it up for a different hunting situation. You could set one rifle up to fling heavy, moderate velocity bullets at larger game and set the other up for lighter, faster bullets for medium game out to longer distances.

The .25-06 is a cool round, but I just checked the T/C website and they don't appear to offer that in the Venture anymore.

 

[jmr40]

You have a 30-06, nothing you are considering will be significantly better. The 25-06 is a little different, on the small side, but the difference between 7 mag, 30-06, 280, or 270 is splitting some mighty fine hairs and any are more than capable of deer or elk at ranges farther than most of us have any business shooting.

I'd go with something smaller, 243, 260, 7-08 etc.

 

[RPRNY]

On the larger end, 300 WinMag, 338 WinMag, it's just more recoil than I want in a rifle and frankly, more rifle than I can probably competently shoot. Maybe the 7mm Mag is too. I am confident at 300 yards, which is more or less MPBR for 7mm RemMag (and the 270 I note). I just haven't shot enough at distances beyond that to say that I feel comfortable that I can judge drop and wind to take ethical hunting shots. So one way or the other, the big fellas are out of the question for me.

For 250 yards and less, If I need heavies, I have the Marlin 444 in a single shot that can be loaded quite hot, a 454 Casull Stutzen that can deliver the 250 gr FTX at 2250 fps, the 35 Krag in a single shot that delivers equivalent to the 358 Winchester, an 8x57 Mauser sporter, and the 30-40 Krag in a Ruger No. 3 that will rival 308 Win up to 170s and throw 220 gr Speer Hot Cor at 2200 fps, and the 30-06 that is perfectly at ease with 180s.

So, the 7mm Rem Mag as "a lot of bark and only a little more bite than the 30-06" does make some sense.

I note as per advice above that the Venture is indeed no longer offered in 25-06, so that's off the table.

I think it's getting narrowed down to 27-28 cal. I will try channeling Jack O'Connor to see if there is some love for the 270 deep down there somewhere...

 

[Gtscotty]

If it helps you stomach the idea of a .270 you might note that the 150 gr .277 SST and Interbond have a BC of .525.... Pretty slick for a purpose built hunting bullet in any caliber.

 

[Davek1977]

I may admittedly be biased, but my 7mm Mag has never disappointed me, nor have I ever wished for "less gun". It is capable of doing just about anything I could imagine needing done with a centerfire rifle in N. America, ammo is commonplace, and there must isn't a whole lot NOT to like about the round, IMO.

 

[jmr40]

If you want something that will reach out a bit farther and still hit harder consider the 300 WSM. It is designed as a very efficient cartridge with milder than expected recoil.

It won't quite match 300 WM for speed, but will be less than 50 fps slower, no animal will ever notice the difference. But it burns 10-15 gr less powder depending on the exact load resulting in noticeably less recoil. If you can handle 30-06 or 7 mag recoil, you'll never notice the difference in equal weight rifles.

30-06/180 @ 2800 fps------22 ft lbs recoil
7mmRM/175 @2900 fps-----25 ft lbs recoil
300WSM/180 @ 2950fps----26 ft lbs recoil
300WM/180 @ 3000 fps-----30 ft lbs recoil
338WM/225 @ 2800 fps-----35 ft lbs recoil

But if you like your 30-06 and don't plan on shooting over 300-400 yards you don't need any of the magnums. Your 30-06 is more than adequate for elk at those ranges. If that is the case go with something lighter and with less recoil for deer and antelope.

 

[Ks5shooter]

TC Venture 7mm-08

 

[Speedo66]

You moved from Westchester to CO? Well, you'll always have Scarsdale. lol

7mmMag sounds like a good choice.

If you sent it in with the S&W, don't forget to get your Williams sight back.

 

[RPRNY]

So, last night I read three Ken Waters "Pet Loads" articles on the 270, several pieces by Towsend Whelen on the 270, and one by Phil Sharpe. And I realized that my animosity was based on ubiquity. But there's a reason everybody loves the 270. It will do everything I can do with the 7mm. The Remington Magnum can do more, but I'm not sure that I can.

So a special thanks to Moxie and others that got me to reconsider the 270 and to West Kentucky for the 'bark vs bite' analogy.

Appreciate the input and glad I sought it. Thanks for the insight, experience, and evaluations.

Will report in once I have it to hand.