Help me decide between a shotgun or a pistol.
- Thread starter gallo
- Start date
- Status
jakemccoy
Member
shotgun
Shotgun again.
And, I've heard very bad things about the Taurus Judge.
I have a good friend who manages a gun department at a local sporting goods store. He told me that he's had to take a rubber mallet and a vise to a couple Judges to get the cylinders open just to show them to customers.
What's worse, even with the customers seeing this demonstration and understanding that they were buying a POS, they still bought the damn things.
Anyway, if you must use a .410 for defense, at least get one that is likely to work.
(Yes, I know, there are thousands out there that work and I should stop insulting your pet gun until I have some real experience with them.)
And, I've heard very bad things about the Taurus Judge.
I have a good friend who manages a gun department at a local sporting goods store. He told me that he's had to take a rubber mallet and a vise to a couple Judges to get the cylinders open just to show them to customers.
What's worse, even with the customers seeing this demonstration and understanding that they were buying a POS, they still bought the damn things.
Anyway, if you must use a .410 for defense, at least get one that is likely to work.
(Yes, I know, there are thousands out there that work and I should stop insulting your pet gun until I have some real experience with them.)
Titan6
member
You already have pistols. For HD a shotgun is very hard to beat with a pistol.
Officers'Wife
Member
Luckily I have absolutely no experience in the use of home defense. However, I do know that shot placement with a handgun requires a great deal of concentration that would be increasing difficult when you are scared enough to pee your pants.
A while back someone far wiser than I told me about what he called Bodel's theory that goes: "The speed of conversion of an agressive man to a passive man is directly proportional to the size of the hole in the end of the barrell. " That suggests to me that a shotgun would be far superior to home defense.
Selena
A while back someone far wiser than I told me about what he called Bodel's theory that goes: "The speed of conversion of an agressive man to a passive man is directly proportional to the size of the hole in the end of the barrell. " That suggests to me that a shotgun would be far superior to home defense.
Selena
While I own a Bersa Firestorm Mini 9mm and think it is one of the best overall values in a handgun I would say get the shotgun. You already have a nice handgun in the XD and for home protection nothing beats a 12 gauge. Get the shotgun and then save up for the Bersa.
CHEVELLE427
Member
850, 500 , 590 , And A Good 45acp
GroovedG19
Member
Definitely shotgun.
All of you have convinced me to get the shotgun. The mossberg 500 is in use by our military and the remington 870 is in use by a lot of police departments. This and your almost split responses tell me that both shotguns are fine weapons. The mossberg is about $100 cheaper than the remington, but I've yet to handle either. So depending on how each feels, I'll make my decision.
Thank you
Thank you
9mm handgun
.355
115 gr JHP
1250 fps
399 me
12 guage shotgun with buckhammer slugs
.729
600ish gr lead freight train
1500 fps
3232 me
Just putting what you have and what you could get in perspective.
Honestly, I'd put a shotgun next on your list.
If Kel Tec makes a carbine that can share XD mags the way they have one for glock, beretta, smith/wesson, and sig, I'd say that would be a good choice after the shotgun. Those sub2000s are pretty reasonably priced.
round it out with an Elsie Pea (Ruger LCP) or the Kel Tec that is basicalyl the same thing, and you ahve a nice little pocket gun in 380.
Then you need a 'combat carbine' something in the 30-30, 7.62x39, 30 carbine, .223, 5.45x39, 5.56NATO, 6.8 remington family
Finish it off with a 308, 30-06, 7mm remmag, 270 winny or other bolt action scoped rifle and you will have your bases covered
.355
115 gr JHP
1250 fps
399 me
12 guage shotgun with buckhammer slugs
.729
600ish gr lead freight train
1500 fps
3232 me
Just putting what you have and what you could get in perspective.
Honestly, I'd put a shotgun next on your list.
If Kel Tec makes a carbine that can share XD mags the way they have one for glock, beretta, smith/wesson, and sig, I'd say that would be a good choice after the shotgun. Those sub2000s are pretty reasonably priced.
round it out with an Elsie Pea (Ruger LCP) or the Kel Tec that is basicalyl the same thing, and you ahve a nice little pocket gun in 380.
Then you need a 'combat carbine' something in the 30-30, 7.62x39, 30 carbine, .223, 5.45x39, 5.56NATO, 6.8 remington family
Finish it off with a 308, 30-06, 7mm remmag, 270 winny or other bolt action scoped rifle and you will have your bases covered
ReadyontheRight
Member
Get a 28" 870 with remchokes and find a local range to go trap or skeet shooting. Join a team so you shoot every week. Get to know the 870 by competing with it.
Keep your eyes open for a deal on a 18" barrel or a complete 18" 870.
In a HD situation...use your XD 9mm to get to your 870.
Keep your eyes open for a deal on a 18" barrel or a complete 18" 870.
In a HD situation...use your XD 9mm to get to your 870.
Other than zombie fantasies or the fantasy of "racking the slide to scare the heck out of an intruder," a shotgun is almost useless. It's a big oversized "friend impresser" but that's about it. Taking a shotgun on a shooting trip is bulky and boring. People rush to buy shotguns because they are cheaper brand new than most new handguns.
If you have space to store guns, then an 870 is a good gun to store for when handgun ammo is in short supply. Stocking up on cases of shotgun shells is easy. Wal mart has pallets of it.
If you have space to store guns, then an 870 is a good gun to store for when handgun ammo is in short supply. Stocking up on cases of shotgun shells is easy. Wal mart has pallets of it.
ReadyontheRight
Member
I respectfully disagree. In a HD situation, 12 pellets of 8+mm buckshot per shot is hardly "useless".
In an 18" shotgun with an extended tube, you can hold and shoot accurately 8 shots with 12 8+mm pellets each. That's what...ten bajillion bad guy capillaries disengaged from their primary mission through a series of center-mass shots? It's easier to make the hits if you have your weapon solidly-mounted to your shoulder.
Shotgun bonus: You can also have 12 gauge slugs ready to load as needed ... stored right on the "oversized" gun that's not much longer than my outstretched, pistol-packin' arms.
Pistols are fine. I love 1911s, Glocks, .357 revolvers and almost every other handgun. But don't try to tell us shotguns are "almost useless".
The only friends who ever see my guns are those who also have guns in their hands. When we are hunting or shooting together. If I thought someone would be "impressed" because I had a "big gun", that person would not be my "friend".
Have you ever been to a trap range? How about a defensive shotgun course? I am NOT bored by shotguns. I HAVE been somewhat bored by the short range of handguns.
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
Not a very good attempt at trolling, you need to at least saying something that is somewhat believable. 0/10.
CHEVELLE427
Member
Lets see maybe a new shooter with a hand gun, not so great of a shot (YET) , bad guy advancing down a dark hall way.
Bang - miss, Bang - miss,
WHAT NOW
Same new shooter but with shotgun, same bad guy. Bang - BIG MESS
Bang - miss, Bang - miss,
WHAT NOW
Same new shooter but with shotgun, same bad guy. Bang - BIG MESS
streakr
Member
Shotgun but be sure it's placed where you get to it.
Revolver is best for a newbie.
s
Revolver is best for a newbie.
s
un_lucky
Member
eight seven t
scrat
Member
+2 except i kinda like the 870
What gauge? Many will tell you 12, which is big enough, and has better ammo selection. For home defense, a 20 will do fine. From the business end, few intruders will care about the difference - but the person behind the butt plate will, in percieved recoil, and more training on the range. A 20 can be used by other family members at the range - and at home.
But, the 20 ga is harder to find. Shells are still made, and will be for some time to come.
In 12 ga, #4 has been touted as preferred for home defense. Any firearm discharged in the flimsy plaster lined boxes we call modern construction will penetrate. 00 Buck and slugs would be the last thing I would want zipping through my children's bedroom walls. #4 seems the best compromise for down range impact and minimal penetration in construction.
Once you get it, try it out at home. It's no good when you don't know where the blind spots are in hallways, etc. Flashlight tag with narrow focused beams is a great game to play without alarming the whole family with "intruder scenarios," and the kids don't blow it out of proportion at school.
But, the 20 ga is harder to find. Shells are still made, and will be for some time to come.
In 12 ga, #4 has been touted as preferred for home defense. Any firearm discharged in the flimsy plaster lined boxes we call modern construction will penetrate. 00 Buck and slugs would be the last thing I would want zipping through my children's bedroom walls. #4 seems the best compromise for down range impact and minimal penetration in construction.
Once you get it, try it out at home. It's no good when you don't know where the blind spots are in hallways, etc. Flashlight tag with narrow focused beams is a great game to play without alarming the whole family with "intruder scenarios," and the kids don't blow it out of proportion at school.
CHEVELLE427
Member
Short 20ga with #4 shot and an in expensive laser to help with point of aim will do just fine.
sm
member
e7grt5,
Welcome to THR.
You ain't from around these parts are you?
Well I am from the CSA and I am here to help.
Have a seat, comfy?
Look me dead straight in the face.
For your information I am 53 years old, and what I am about to share comes from my experiences and observations.
You can PM Jeff White, JShirley, Lee Lapin, and some other Staff around here and they will only give you a "yes" or "no" answer to you asking about me.
1. Software not Hardware.
The goal of a responsible firearm owner is to never get into a situation where they have to use a firearm to defend themselves.
I am speaking of civilians, which would be best served to use ADEE model.
Police have a duty to run toward harm's way, and AJOJ is the model for them.
2. Mindset, Skillsets "then" Toolsets.
See #1.
3. There are NO magic talismans when it comes to handguns, shotguns or rifles. Not the gun, not the ammo, or any accessories .
4. Each individual has to access where they live and activities of daily living ( ADLs).
Male, female, age, physical condition, enacted laws where they live, travel, attend school, work, ...etc.
Still comfy? I hope so, and continue to look me straight in the face.
5. Have you ever stood outside the curtain in a Emergency Room, while a Rape Kit was administered to a young lady?
Under age 21, and by law could not carry concealed.
Restraining Orders only support after the fact criminal acts of evil.
Well I have not only been outside that curtain while a Rape Kit was administered once, I have been numerous times.
6. Have you ever been in a Operating Room and assisted on a surgery or organ harvest?
Have you ever carried an amputated leg over to another table?
Handed a surgeon more suture so plastic surgeon could reattach a breast on a 18 year old?
Or another plastic surgeon repair a vagina on a 15 year old?
How about assisting getting the dead mom of dead kids, cleaned up and looking fine for the kids, Husband and Family to come back to OR 18 to view her body?
WE tried, damn we tried, but the quietest quiet one will ever hear is when life leaves the body in a OR Theatre.
7. pax wrote an article about using a handgun, and Larry Corriea wrote the counterpoint in using a rifle as defensive tool in the home.
Neither one of these two will laugh, or make fun of what I have always done, still do, and will continue to do.
8. Single Shot Shotgun, 20 gauge and I and others will get a person up to speed in short order on how to use that shotgun.
My chosen deal has been ladies, be they teenagers, single adults, single moms, widows, grandma's, aunts, sisters...
My other group is the elderly, and physically limited.
Life is hard, and if a teenager loses a leg , they are limited and they by golly have a right to be safe!
This is not Armchair Ranger, this is not NetNinja, this hard cold reality!
Fear rips through a person's very being, blood leaves a copper taste in the mouth.
Sexual assault and Rape leaves one "dirty" and one can take a bath after bath and shower after shower and still not feel "clean".
Give me a wee bit of time, and I can, as I have, get a lady up to speed with a single shot shotgun.
Give me 30 minutes and I will get them up to speed on a Med Frame revolver.
This is not IDPA/IPSC, 3 Gun, Bulls-Eye, - no, this injury, maim, rape, or death Software I am doing.
Preventive Steps and I mean fast and furious. Move the gal and her kid(s).
Lights, Locks, all sorts of things.
This person gets someone to stay with them, they travel with others, even park and hide their vehicle and ride with another, or use another vehicle.
Legal is fast tracked for these persons.
ADEE.
If Evil comes into where this lady, kids, whomever is, they have a right to defend and Do not tell me, or those that have, or are prepared to, a Single Shot Shotgun is not a viable tool!
Don't!
Now my deal includes Skeet. A skeet field is a real useful tool to me.
Ladies and kids meet some others like them.
Kids do BBGuns and .22 rifles...
Hot Dawgs, Corn Dawgs, Hamburgers, Lemonade, Chocolate...
People interacting, sharing experiences , strength and hope.
Skeet is just part of it.
Dove hunting is a tradition here in the South. We use shotguns.
It is about the people, especially the first hunt for kids and ladies.
That skeet field replicates hunting target presentations.
That teenager, or lady that gets a Beretta 390/391, or Rem 1100 for instance can have a lot of fun shooting skeet, dove hunting, and ...
Skeet field is my deal for serious lessons too!
A skeet target is about 4" in diameter and travels at ~ 55 mph.
Station Low 8 means one is facing that target coming out.
Tueller drill is a target coming at one from 21 feet and will reach them in 1.5 seconds.
One of the best kept secrets is a 20 gauge semi-auto shotgun.
Beretta 390/391, Rem 1100, Win 1400.
Yes these guns have 26" or 28" barrels.
Yes they most likely are restricted to 3 shells total, and the 1400 is for sure because of design.
Don't tell me someone that shoots such a gun, a lot, to a point that gun is an extension of them, and they can break a 4" target traveling 55 mph is not able take care of a situation.
I know better, so do the ladies, gents that have in fact stopped a serious threat with such a shotgun, they use for skeet, dove, quail hunting.
Don't.
9. Gun Control is about Control- period!
I grew up before 911 and cell phones.
Times were interesting.
Have you ever had a mob come down where you were and they were tossing firebombs to set houses and structures on fire?
I have.
A shotgun, just a plain old shotgun one uses for hunting, skeet, and trap will fell a firebomb before it reaches a porch, or roof, or anything else.
I've shot fire bombs out of the sky.
No funky AR Stocks, no goopy sights, just earned skill with a shotgun being the versatile tool it is proven to be.
Have you ever been in a Tornado, and in a rural/semi rural area everyone is pitching in to assist those affected?.
It is dark, only oil lamps, kerosene lamps, Coleman Red Single Mantle lanterns and some chrome flashlights.
Evil comes down, and their intent is to take things from folks and to take advantage of persons affected.
There is a difference in projectiles fired from firearms incoming, from those outgoing.
Trust me on this!
Evil comes in, they get past a gate, and come in shooting guns at folks affected by a tornado.
Verbal intent is stated by evil.
Folks take cover, and folks have guns, guns brought to them as their guns were blown away, or cannot be accessed until the structure is pulled off of them.
Some of those guns were Single Shot Shotguns, and Med Frame Revolvers.
Some were just plain old pump guns, or semi-autos used for skeet, trap, and hunting.
Don't tell me a single shot shotgun in 20 ga , loaded with slugs, will not stop evil.
I know the sound of incoming at me, and I know the sound of 20 ga slugs I fired to stop that threat.
I was not very old either.
10. I don't give a plugged nickel what Gun Control says.
Guns do not cause evil.
Gun Control suggests one use a cell phone and call 911.
Supreme Court said the First Responders do no have to respond.
Folks have a right to do what they may, and if someone feels comfy walking out amongst evil with just a cell phone, that is their business.
Then again...Cell Phones contribute to evil!
Evil is often not alone , so evil can target a victim, and communicate with others in a team to take one down.
Ban Cell Phones.
Hey, this follows the thinking of Gun Control does it not?
11. I don't give a rip what folks use for serious situations in the home, business or travel.
As long as the firearm is safe and the ammunition is correct.
My contention has always been for folks to get correct basic fundamentals down pat, and continue quality practice.
This means Software first , and the use of whatever Hardware they choose second.
Software and Hardware needs to be an extension of the person.
As we say in the South, that is how the cow ate the cabbage.
e7grt5,
Enjoy your stay here at THR.
Just know, at this very second, pax has a handgun handy, Larry Correia has a rifle handy and I have a handgun on person and a Youth Single Shot 20 ga with a slug handy.
We all 3 know the legal of where we are.
We all 3 know the Software.
We all 3 know the Hardware.
We are all 3 Correct.
Steve
Welcome to THR.
You ain't from around these parts are you?
Well I am from the CSA and I am here to help.
Have a seat, comfy?
Look me dead straight in the face.
For your information I am 53 years old, and what I am about to share comes from my experiences and observations.
You can PM Jeff White, JShirley, Lee Lapin, and some other Staff around here and they will only give you a "yes" or "no" answer to you asking about me.
1. Software not Hardware.
The goal of a responsible firearm owner is to never get into a situation where they have to use a firearm to defend themselves.
I am speaking of civilians, which would be best served to use ADEE model.
Police have a duty to run toward harm's way, and AJOJ is the model for them.
2. Mindset, Skillsets "then" Toolsets.
See #1.
3. There are NO magic talismans when it comes to handguns, shotguns or rifles. Not the gun, not the ammo, or any accessories .
4. Each individual has to access where they live and activities of daily living ( ADLs).
Male, female, age, physical condition, enacted laws where they live, travel, attend school, work, ...etc.
Still comfy? I hope so, and continue to look me straight in the face.
5. Have you ever stood outside the curtain in a Emergency Room, while a Rape Kit was administered to a young lady?
Under age 21, and by law could not carry concealed.
Restraining Orders only support after the fact criminal acts of evil.
Well I have not only been outside that curtain while a Rape Kit was administered once, I have been numerous times.
6. Have you ever been in a Operating Room and assisted on a surgery or organ harvest?
Have you ever carried an amputated leg over to another table?
Handed a surgeon more suture so plastic surgeon could reattach a breast on a 18 year old?
Or another plastic surgeon repair a vagina on a 15 year old?
How about assisting getting the dead mom of dead kids, cleaned up and looking fine for the kids, Husband and Family to come back to OR 18 to view her body?
WE tried, damn we tried, but the quietest quiet one will ever hear is when life leaves the body in a OR Theatre.
7. pax wrote an article about using a handgun, and Larry Corriea wrote the counterpoint in using a rifle as defensive tool in the home.
Neither one of these two will laugh, or make fun of what I have always done, still do, and will continue to do.
8. Single Shot Shotgun, 20 gauge and I and others will get a person up to speed in short order on how to use that shotgun.
My chosen deal has been ladies, be they teenagers, single adults, single moms, widows, grandma's, aunts, sisters...
My other group is the elderly, and physically limited.
Life is hard, and if a teenager loses a leg , they are limited and they by golly have a right to be safe!
This is not Armchair Ranger, this is not NetNinja, this hard cold reality!
Fear rips through a person's very being, blood leaves a copper taste in the mouth.
Sexual assault and Rape leaves one "dirty" and one can take a bath after bath and shower after shower and still not feel "clean".
Give me a wee bit of time, and I can, as I have, get a lady up to speed with a single shot shotgun.
Give me 30 minutes and I will get them up to speed on a Med Frame revolver.
This is not IDPA/IPSC, 3 Gun, Bulls-Eye, - no, this injury, maim, rape, or death Software I am doing.
Preventive Steps and I mean fast and furious. Move the gal and her kid(s).
Lights, Locks, all sorts of things.
This person gets someone to stay with them, they travel with others, even park and hide their vehicle and ride with another, or use another vehicle.
Legal is fast tracked for these persons.
ADEE.
If Evil comes into where this lady, kids, whomever is, they have a right to defend and Do not tell me, or those that have, or are prepared to, a Single Shot Shotgun is not a viable tool!
Don't!
Now my deal includes Skeet. A skeet field is a real useful tool to me.
Ladies and kids meet some others like them.
Kids do BBGuns and .22 rifles...
Hot Dawgs, Corn Dawgs, Hamburgers, Lemonade, Chocolate...
People interacting, sharing experiences , strength and hope.
Skeet is just part of it.
Dove hunting is a tradition here in the South. We use shotguns.
It is about the people, especially the first hunt for kids and ladies.
That skeet field replicates hunting target presentations.
That teenager, or lady that gets a Beretta 390/391, or Rem 1100 for instance can have a lot of fun shooting skeet, dove hunting, and ...
Skeet field is my deal for serious lessons too!
A skeet target is about 4" in diameter and travels at ~ 55 mph.
Station Low 8 means one is facing that target coming out.
Tueller drill is a target coming at one from 21 feet and will reach them in 1.5 seconds.
One of the best kept secrets is a 20 gauge semi-auto shotgun.
Beretta 390/391, Rem 1100, Win 1400.
Yes these guns have 26" or 28" barrels.
Yes they most likely are restricted to 3 shells total, and the 1400 is for sure because of design.
Don't tell me someone that shoots such a gun, a lot, to a point that gun is an extension of them, and they can break a 4" target traveling 55 mph is not able take care of a situation.
I know better, so do the ladies, gents that have in fact stopped a serious threat with such a shotgun, they use for skeet, dove, quail hunting.
Don't.
9. Gun Control is about Control- period!
I grew up before 911 and cell phones.
Times were interesting.
Have you ever had a mob come down where you were and they were tossing firebombs to set houses and structures on fire?
I have.
A shotgun, just a plain old shotgun one uses for hunting, skeet, and trap will fell a firebomb before it reaches a porch, or roof, or anything else.
I've shot fire bombs out of the sky.
No funky AR Stocks, no goopy sights, just earned skill with a shotgun being the versatile tool it is proven to be.
Have you ever been in a Tornado, and in a rural/semi rural area everyone is pitching in to assist those affected?.
It is dark, only oil lamps, kerosene lamps, Coleman Red Single Mantle lanterns and some chrome flashlights.
Evil comes down, and their intent is to take things from folks and to take advantage of persons affected.
There is a difference in projectiles fired from firearms incoming, from those outgoing.
Trust me on this!
Evil comes in, they get past a gate, and come in shooting guns at folks affected by a tornado.
Verbal intent is stated by evil.
Folks take cover, and folks have guns, guns brought to them as their guns were blown away, or cannot be accessed until the structure is pulled off of them.
Some of those guns were Single Shot Shotguns, and Med Frame Revolvers.
Some were just plain old pump guns, or semi-autos used for skeet, trap, and hunting.
Don't tell me a single shot shotgun in 20 ga , loaded with slugs, will not stop evil.
I know the sound of incoming at me, and I know the sound of 20 ga slugs I fired to stop that threat.
I was not very old either.
10. I don't give a plugged nickel what Gun Control says.
Guns do not cause evil.
Gun Control suggests one use a cell phone and call 911.
Supreme Court said the First Responders do no have to respond.
Folks have a right to do what they may, and if someone feels comfy walking out amongst evil with just a cell phone, that is their business.
Then again...Cell Phones contribute to evil!
Evil is often not alone , so evil can target a victim, and communicate with others in a team to take one down.
Ban Cell Phones.
Hey, this follows the thinking of Gun Control does it not?
11. I don't give a rip what folks use for serious situations in the home, business or travel.
As long as the firearm is safe and the ammunition is correct.
My contention has always been for folks to get correct basic fundamentals down pat, and continue quality practice.
This means Software first , and the use of whatever Hardware they choose second.
Software and Hardware needs to be an extension of the person.
As we say in the South, that is how the cow ate the cabbage.
e7grt5,
Enjoy your stay here at THR.
Just know, at this very second, pax has a handgun handy, Larry Correia has a rifle handy and I have a handgun on person and a Youth Single Shot 20 ga with a slug handy.
We all 3 know the legal of where we are.
We all 3 know the Software.
We all 3 know the Hardware.
We are all 3 Correct.
Steve
sm
member
I appreciate the kind words.
I'd kill some corn beef and cabbage with cornbread right about now if I had some.
Use Enough Purple Onion
I'd kill some corn beef and cabbage with cornbread right about now if I had some.
Use Enough Purple Onion
- Status
Similar threads
