Help me on what to look for in a Colt SAA .45

[RobertFBurnett]

Hello all,

The revolver bug is starting to burrow under my skin again, and I have really been putting off this purchase for a while due to its ridiculous cost, but...

Can someone school me on the current production Colt SAAs? Anyone purchased one recently? Or was it a family heirloom?

I've seen them in a case, but with ties on them so you can't work the action, so how are the actions and feel of them? Color Case finish vs. Nickle, etc. 4 3/4" vs. 5.5" barrel good and bads.

I know Beretta makes a quality repro for 1/3 of the cost, and the Ruger Vaquero is near indestructible for less than half...but I am a HUGE history fanatic and a Bona-fide Peacemaker is really lookin good...that being said...

I should add...I'm not a huge Colt (the Company) fan, don't know why, its not based on a rational experience, it just seems they charge more than they need to and don't really make it easy to like them. Its like they use real unicorn to make their revolvers and rest on their laurels for what they were in 1881.

Thank you for your help in advance,

RFB

 

[Hawk]

I don't have one but the ones I've seen recently are pretty nice. If it's getting under your skin to the extent it seems, might as well go for it.

IMHO, they get unfairly "dinged" for the cost, "paying extra for the pony" and all that.

Comparing online discounted to its closest competitors, it's the same or marginally cheaper.

Fr'instance
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_141/products_id/36360
...slides under both Turnbull and STI.

The Colt has a white hammer but that seems a reasonable trade off for a rendering of a horse.

If sometlhing that's not quite a replica is considered, Colt will slap Freedom Arm's pricing smooth in the dirt.

I m'self like 4-3/4, case color and .45 but that's just me.

How's that for a new perspective? Grab the Colt while it's still priced under the 3 alternatives mentioned.

 

[calaverasslim]

Let me start by saying that you get what you pay for. Having said that, Colts are the premier of SAA's available.

Smooth and sweet they really hold their value while the imports fall off in value. The Colt are sweet mainly right out of the box while the imports need some serious action work. Not to say all SAA's won't benefit from action jobs. Put a good Wolff mainspring in it and your ready to rock n roll.

email me with any more questions

 

[TIMC]

The action on mine is really smooth but I don't shoot it other than the few rounds I put through it when it was first handed down to me. Mine is a family heirloom. It is not current production it is a 1st generation Peacemaker in .45 Colt 4 3/4" with all matching numbers.

As for current production SAA guns I have 2 of the old style Vaqueros in .357 that are built like tanks, have super smooth actions and very accurate shooters. I bought them about 6-7 years ago for about $450 a piece. These are my shooters. They have 5 1/2" barrels.

 

[Jim March]

http://www.usfirearms.com

Built in the US, in Colt's old factory, to specs better than any current Colt. Granted, Colt is catching up but by the reports I've seen, hasn't matched USFA yet.

THAT said, to be the ultimate SAA-class single action isn't a pure clone. It's a Freedom Arms '97 mid-frame in 357, six-shot (unlike their big bores which are five in that size), unmatched accuracy and machine tolerances, superb trigger even though it has a transfer bar ignition for safe six-up carry. And if you don't know what that prior sentence means, STOP AND ASK before buying or for God's sake firing a Colt SAA or "close clone".

 

[Hawk]

Wiki maintains that USFA has abandoned the old Colt building. Seems plausible given the upgraded machinery in the current pics.

Economies of computer-driven machining could only be realized if the machinery could fit through the door, but the historic brick armory was not accommodating in this regard. USFA purchased a new site in late 2001 (its current 4-acre (16,000 m2) campus) to expand operations in Hartford, and until 2003 maintained both the historic Armory and the new facility for the production of Lightning magazine rifles, new Model 1910 automatics, and its historically accurate Single Action Army[21] revolvers. The historic Colt Armory was sold to investors represented by Goodrich Corporation[22] in 1997 and was divested in about 2001 to Homes for America's[23] Robert & Rebecca McFarlane.[24][25]

 

[owlhoot]

I have over a dozen Colt SAA revolvers with examples from all generations including the current production guns.

Current production guns are excellent, much better than they were ten years ago. Actually, they are the best that Colt has done since the 2nd generation guns.

A Colt is a Colt and anything else is just a copy. But the one copy that I wouldn't mind having is the STI Texican which costs a bit more than the Colt. It is the only clone that may be better than the original.

The new Colt will want a set of Wolfe springs installed, a quick and easy job that anyone can do. The Wolfe springs aren't necessary but they lighten up the cocking effort as well as the trigger pull.

Accuracy is excellent with my pair. Fit and finish is excellent. Timing is perfect.

I like all three barrel lengths. Barrel length is almost purely a matter of what looks and feels good to you. My current production guns have the 4.75" barrels. They are in .45 caliber. I reload so ammo cost isn't such a big issue.

Every man owes himself a Colt SAA. Go for it.

However, if cost is a major impediment, the Great Western II sold by EMF is an excellent reproduction at considerably less cost. But it doesn't have that pony on it.

 

[sgtdevildog]

Are you shooting or collecting? I shoot mine and got an advertised deal on a USFA .45 Colt with a .45 acp cylinder. Case coloring is beautiful, craftsmanship is excellent and an extra cylinder to boot. If I was looking for safe queen/investment, I would get a colt. For shooting - I love my USFA.

 

[Kentucky-roughrider]

I go with the USFA or a Ruger.

 

[RobertFBurnett]

Thank you everyone so far.

though it has a transfer bar ignition for safe six-up carry. And if you don't know what that prior sentence means, STOP AND ASK before buying or for God's sake firing a Colt SAA or "close clone".

Ever since I was 9 years old watching True Grit I've known about carrying 5 with the chamber empty under the hammer

...even recently I have heard about slipping a $20 in the open chamber to pay for your burial, can't say its fact, but it sounds good.

I did read the SAA manual on the Colt site and did have a question about carry. It said that loaded or unloaded carry was with the hammer on safety notch. So, is it then bad to have the hammer all the way down on an empty cylinder, or just better to have the hammer/pin that much farther back?

Current production guns are excellent, much better than they were ten years ago. Actually, they are the best that Colt has done since the 2nd generation guns.

Thanks owlhoot, its good to know since the ones in a retail case have a chastity belt.

To everyone else thanks, I, in any other situation would go Vaquero...there's just something about that peacemaker...not to say that the pony won't eventually have a non-colt buddy. And the USFA's look great, I eventually want something in a 3" birds head to have in a cross-draw, that would be something good for USFA so I don't have to chop a pony.

Are you shooting or collecting?

Both!
When I do buy a firearm its usually one with a better finish and quality, otherwise I would just own a G17 and a GP101, but I have no safe queens. To me the Colt is a collectors gun, or so it says about 20 times in a 40 page manual...but above all else it historically was a working man's gun...not that i'm just gonna drop it in the coffee pot on the campfire to clean it.

Thanks all! If anything comes to mind post it up or pm me.

RFB

 

[PRM]

Colt SAA

I have a Colt SAA in 45 LC, 5 1/2 barrel. I sent back to the Colt Custom Shop a couple of years ago and had a 45ACP cylinder fitted to it. By far, it is the top of the line of all my guns. Fit and finish are pure Colt and that about says it all in that category. The action is premier quality and compared to the 2 Cimarron Ubertis I own, the Colt is daylight from dark. Smoother, more solid, just got a different sound and feel. At 7-10 yards it will cloverleaf shots. I like the Long Colt - but the 45 ACP is by far my favorite. It is just down right comfortable to shoot and accurate in this gun. The Colt clones are great shooters, and Colt did not make the smaller Lightening in single action. So I went with the options available for what I wanted. Just my opinion, the difference is worth the cost. Over a lifetime of owning and shooting a gun, cost becomes negligible.

 

[Harve Curry]

As I've shown on here before, this is the gun I use almost everyday.

It's not that shiny anymore.
The spec's on this 44spl are:
groove dia. .428"
forcing cone begins at .451"
cylinder mouths are: .429"
Barrel/cylinder gap: .004"
Its' timing and lock up is as nice as any SAA I've handled or had.
I didn't like the trigger/bolt spring so I replaced it with a lighter one. The reason for that is Colt included a slip of paper in the box quoting Conn. state law about triggers and safety so they put this heavier spring in as a CYA.
I've been shooting it for two years now and still not sure what load I like the best, but that keeps me shooting and reloading. I am hitting a man size silouette at 100 and 200 yards with it if I know the range, have my pet load in it, and do my part. The (idea from Elmer Kieth's SIXGUNS book)inlayed gold lines help me remember sight elevations. The windage is close enough that it will shoot a rattlers head off at 20'. I'm a long ways from rich and given up on that notion years ago to. So anyone of us can buy a COLT SAA if I did, 18 months x $100 a month and bingo. You can buy plain ones used for $900 and up and new starts around $1200.
The COLT people on the phone have been polite and responsable, sometimes takes them awhile to get back to me but they do. I told them what I wanted, what I do and have done with Colts and how I intended to be shooting it, basically what I expected. I don't know where all the BS comes from about Colt, some sort of predjudiced I guess. The 3rd gen. they are making in the last 10 years or so are very good. I've had 1st, 2nd's, and early 3rd's. All but one 1st gen. shot groups under 3" at 25 yards with reloads I prepared for them.
The BFR revolvers interest me, and those Grover's, but if it is a SAA it will most likely be made by COLT if I'm using it.

 

[Hawk]

To me the Colt is a collectors gun, or so it says about 20 times in a 40 page manual...but above all else it historically was a working man's gun...not that i'm just gonna drop it in the coffee pot on the campfire to clean it.

Somehow I knew I wasn't the only individual that downloaded manufacturer's manuals before a purchase.

By most accounts Colt is making a fine product these days, at least superior to some that came out 10 or so years ago, but they haven't changed the manual and it's just plain scary.

Between the dire warnings against <gasp> shooting the thing and the unfortunate fact that the local dealers invariably chastity-belted the things, it was hard to generate much confidence in the thing being worth a snot as a shooter. I was afraid of getting one with an 80 pound trigger that made noises like a legion of fingernails dragged across an acre of chalkboard. To this day, I haven't gotten a straght answer on just how horrible a trigger could be and not be considered a warranteed defect. Stuff like that matters when a purchase is an article of faith because the product is chastity-belted until money changes hands.

After hanging around SASSwire enough it becomes apparent that the current production does shoot nicely but, dang - they need to fix that manual. I'd probably buy one now on faith but they sure don't show a lot of confidence in their product.

 

[Harve Curry]

As to manuals, I have a Cimarron Lightning model 38 spl. I'd have to dig it up but their manual states plainly they're guns are not gauranteed for windage or to shoot to point of aim. To me that's a sorry way out of a responsibilty to stand behind your product. After all only accurate guns are interesting, why would you want an inaccurate one? Mine doesn't and has been back to them to many times. I'm sure there are some real accurate Cimmaron/Uberti's out there, but why would anyone put their money down to buy a gun that is not gauranteed to hit the target?

 

[PRM]

Harve Curry - that is one beautiful pistol. I have been putting ivory on my SAs. Who did your engraving? Ivory with the engraving would really dress one up. Did it come that way or did you have it done?

Trigger bolt spring. I put the Wolff wire spring in mine when the original broke. They say the wire springs never give trouble. Dropped right in and works great.

 

[Harve Curry]

Robert,
Best way to carry is with the hammer all the way down, and over a empty chamber. I have become accustomed to always glancing at it to see that the case rims are on either side of the firing pin. If you use the so called safety notch and it gets dropped or hit hard someday it can break the sear of the trigger, or hurt the notch in the hammer. Since it is over an empty anyhow I just keep it all the way down.

The engraving is COLT Custom shop when I ordered the gun. All the work done was from them. It is what they call American Scroll "B" 1/2 coverage, and a unnamed house engraver. A known or named engraver cost a bit more. Ivory is what I'd like but wasn't in my budget.
thanks,

 

[Jim K]

I won't contradict the excellent advice to carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber. But the old timers often dropped the hammer nose between rims, especially with other than .45. That allowed carry of 6 rounds with reasonable safety, and was somewhat the same idea as the safety pins or notches in a percussion revolver.

Jim

 

[Hawk]

As to manuals, I have a Cimarron Lightning model 38 spl. I'd have to dig it up but their manual states plainly they're guns are not gauranteed for windage or to shoot to point of aim.

First things first.
The clone may not guarantee shooting to point of aim but Colt's manual doesn't guarantee shooting. It's quite clear that their intent is that the thing be oiled and used as safe ballast.

This isn't a knock on the gun - just the manual.

 

[Harve Curry]

Hawk,
I think your taking things aways out of context. Obviously Colt's are bought for investment to. Some people buy Ford Mustangs and don't drive them. I have a 1967 and drive it all over.
If you read Jerry Kuhnhausen's book Colt SAA Shop Manual which covers clones as well, he writes that the Italian version are not as well heat treated as a COLT. That not only the small parts are soft but the frames to.
I agree with you about the Colt manual and I think it's a stupid thing to write in there. but it's a long ways from sending a gun in that won't hit a steel CAS plate at CAS distances with out holding on the far Right edge of it and the bullet going off the left edge. I sent it in 3 times, the 3rd time I handed it to the owner himself. It was a waste of $450 plus all the shipping. They referred me to the manual ref to POA disclaimer. I explained and all I got was a bent front sight that looks crooked and cracked the bluing. I could of done that myself, and it still shoots so far left it's depressing. If there was a duel that's the one you'd want the other guy to pick.There's a gun that stays in the safe.
I also have a Cimmaron/Uberti '73 Winchester in 44spl that I always wanted, so far the Colt is out shooting it for groups, but I haven't given up on it yet.

 

[Hawk]

Actually, I think we're in agreement: the Colt SAA manual could use some work.

In case anybody's wondering what we're talking about:

Collectors of fine firearms, such as this Colt revolver, should be
aware that:

1. Loading and unloading the firearm will show wear and lead
to loss of collector value.

2. Excessive handling will lead to premature wear and cause
loss of value.

3. Firing this revolver will cause immediate extreme loss of
collector's value.

CAUTION: IF YOU HAVE READ THE WARNING ABOVE, AND
ACCEPT THE LOSS OF COLLECTOR'S VALUE AND THE RISK
OF DANGER FROM LOADING THIS REVOLVER USE THE
INFORMATION IN THE REST OF THIS MANUAL TO MINIMIZE
THE RISK OF INJURY, DEATH OR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY.

I'm betting we also would agree that the collector's value warning isn't needed for collectors (who already know all about "unturned") and may have a negative impact on potential customers that were planning on shooting the thing.

It's therefor pointless. It restates the obvious for one crowd and discourages part of another crowd.

 

[RobertFBurnett]

^ Hawk, those warnings make me laugh every time I've read them, they are silly to say the least.

4) Danger, when cutting off chastity belt be sure to use safety scissors, thee most LEGENDARY handgun in History, used to bring law and order to the wild frontier, may be ruined forever by scissors.

Harve, that SAA is GREAT! I really like the "B 1/2 coverage" it has a nice balance of engraving, compared to the fully engraved I saw online where even the front blade sight and hammer are engraved...which looks weird to me.

Also good to know Colt is good to work with as I may eventually get the .45 ACP cylinder...oh yeah...don't you need Moon clips for ACPs? Or is there a way around it?

Good info on everything, I will let you know when the ball gets rolling on my purchase.

Thanks,

RFB

 

[Byron Quick]

It's therefor pointless. It restates the obvious for one crowd and discourages part of another crowd.

Yeah, but it's not aimed at either of the crowds you've mentioned. It's aimed at the crowd who wants to shoot it constantly and then, when they sell it, have a collector pay them the top dollar-the same as for an unturned, unfired specimen. Who, when they can't find anyone who will give them that absolute top dollar, go whining to Colt. And, judging from the manual, that's a sizable group.

Personally, I can't quite get my mind around the collector mindset of owning guns I won't shoot.

BTW, how much are Colt SAA's going for? New production?

 

[Hawk]

BTW, how much are Colt SAA's going for? New production?

1,112.00 delivered from Bud's.

Around 1,200.00 locally.

 

[CSA 357]

I bought a new colt saa about a year ago, its a great gun, i am pleased with it in all ways, i realy wish i had got it in nickel, but i love blue and case color , makes me want to build a camp fire! Im sure you will be happy with a colt, csa