horsemen61
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Help pick accurate hunting rifle
- Thread starter KCAce
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Nature Boy said:
Many aspects of firearms have just been "good enough" for years but it's slowly changing. I think there's a subtle shift away from "that's how it's always been" to knowledgeable shooters wanting and expecting more. Companies that are too lazy, too ignorant, too greedy or too arrogant to offer better products, or improve existing products are going away. Remington should be a warning sign to others in the industry. Good enough just isn't anymore.
The success of companies like AREA 419, Proof Research, and others that are charging high prices for American designed, American made high quality products is not luck.
JFrank
Member
Yes
Personal experience carries weight, I have a model 12 my son in law has I believe a model 10 or 11 trophy something or other,, his opens quite nicely after ignition mine was much heavier although after some bolt work it just slightly harder than my Bat B.
All the bolt rifles I’ve owned were cock on open. Just goes with the territory I suppose.
South Prairie Jim said:
You and I seem to be at odds these days and your last statement is no exception. Heavy bolt lift is not a "feature" of cock on opening, it's an artifact of bad design. I clearly can't convince you of anything, but if you get a chance, spend some time listening to Ted Karagias who owns American Rifle Company. He's one of the most intelligent, gifted and generous engineers I've ever met. His generosity in sharing his knowledge comes from his lack of ego, his confidence in his abilities and his desire to educate others.
Also, you need to handle and shoot lots of rifles from different manufacturers to get a good idea of what's available, what's possible, what is outstanding and what is garbage. Media Day at the Shot Show is a great way to do this and you'll be surprised at how many firearms companies don't show up because they know that their garbage won't compare well to everything else on hand that's readily available to shoot. It's much easier to look good in a gun shop when you're being compared to other equally average products, and you don't get to use the firearm as intended. It's a much higher bar when there are fifty different manufactures on the firing line and you see feeding issues, accuracy issues, bad triggers, heavy bolt lift, stocks that suck, overly heavy rifles, magazines that are garbage, magazine releases that are garbage, etc.
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Don't see where sniper student bolt loss issues are relevant.
I'm not snail crawling through bushes.
Also not worried about being shot.
Check myself and my gear often, and no probs w my 700s.
But then I never had the dreaded Walker trigger issues either.......
Some folks just have a black cloud that follows em everywhere.
I'm not snail crawling through bushes.
Also not worried about being shot.
Check myself and my gear often, and no probs w my 700s.
But then I never had the dreaded Walker trigger issues either.......
Some folks just have a black cloud that follows em everywhere.
troy fairweather
Member
think a person's body shape makes some difference in how your bolt may get hung up, thin people the rifle sits pretty close andbig guys like my the rifle will never sit flat against me.
I've had the bolts catch on all kinds of things and if I didn't use bolt locks as much as I would have had many more bolts open on me then the 2 I've had.
I've had the bolts catch on all kinds of things and if I didn't use bolt locks as much as I would have had many more bolts open on me then the 2 I've had.
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JFrank
Member
Well you’re obviously an expert on all rifles so I suppose the rest of us can just log out.
I think carry has a big effect. I mostly sling carry my rifle on my right side, and usually my arms holding the strap and in the way of anything hitting the gun.
The two times my American popped open the gun was on my left and the handle got caught in my dangly pack straps.
The Americans the only gun inhad the bolt open on, and i took the bend out of the hwndle making it stick straight out rather than back and down. This actually improved the bolt life, and made rhe bolt easier to grab.
It also made the handle more prone to catching on stuff...ive closed the bolt with my shirt sleeve when wearing long sleeves at the bench.
Friend of mine carries my old B-14 on his right and constantly opens his bolt. I think hes catching the handle with his hand as he walks, but i havent paid enough attention to actually see him do it.
Personally its not a feature i LOOK for, but a locking bolts nice to have.
And yeah savages can have pretty horrendous bolt lifts. I ball bearing modded all of mine and reduced spring tension till they would set off primers + 1/4 turn. That made them much more comfortable to use, but i dont know if they would generate enough energy in cold weather.
Hahaha, if thats the worst of it ill live.
For sure ill still take bolts popping open over guns going bang on safety release....or the accutrigger and letting the sear drop to the safety notch when you dont pull the blade straight back.....then fighting a heavy boot lift lol.
For sure ill still take bolts popping open over guns going bang on safety release....or the accutrigger and letting the sear drop to the safety notch when you dont pull the blade straight back.....then fighting a heavy boot lift lol.
troy fairweather
Member
It was pucker moment on the early acca- triggers when they would trip if you pushed the side any.
troy fairweather
Member
Savages were good rifles, but that's when they were cheap sometime 1/4-1/2 the price of a similar rifles but now there same or even more and they have not made many improvements if anything some think the improvements they made are not as good.
I've seen more problems with newer savages the last 10 years then any other company, some stupid stuff even a child could get right to some rifles that were not safe and it looked like we have tried there best to deny it.
I've seen more problems with newer savages the last 10 years then any other company, some stupid stuff even a child could get right to some rifles that were not safe and it looked like we have tried there best to deny it.
I think were mostly talking about actions opening and possibly dumping rounds, tho i suppose a lost bolt is possible enough if it wiggles around long enough.
d2wing said:
I'm probably stating the obvious but all bolt action rifles have a bolt stop of some form that prevents the bolt from coming out of the back of the receiver when operating the bolt. The Remington stop is part of the trigger. "Nicer" receivers have a seperate and more positive stop that typically pivots on a vertical pin and requires the stop or plunger to be depressed against spring force in order to clear the bolt body and allow the bolt to be removed. I'm only aware or bolts falling out of Remington rifles.
Then there's a bolt lock feature that mechanically prevents the bolt from opening when engaged. Tikka, Sako, Savage, Kimber, Winchester, FN, Ruger, Lee-Enfield, Accuracy International, and many others have a bolt lock feature to prevent the bolt from being opened unintentionally. The Springfield 1903, '98 Mausers and most other military issued bolt action rifles have a bolt lock. Someone earlier made a comment that they weren't being shot at which has no bearing on the merits of a locking bolt handle. Perhaps they can explain why many companies still manufacture locking bolt handles despite the added complexity and cost.
Another thing to consider is that many receivers and rifles made today such as those from Barrett, Bergara, Defiance, BAT Machine, Stiller and others are based on the Remington 700 due to simplicity of machining and compatibility with lots of other parts. The Remington 700 is one of the few bolt action rifles that saw or is still in military service that doesn't have a locking bolt handle.
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troy fairweather
Member
If it's possible for the bolt to open it's possible for the catch to be pushed or pulled. I hunted with .u Siamese mauser one very cold day, when I got to my spot I noticed the bolt release was stuck open. So if I didn't have the flag safety all the way over the bolt would have fallen out very easily. The bolt stop screw was a tad to tight and in the cold made it bind and stay open, a 1/8 of a turn off from tight and never a problem.
some say it's impossible to push the bolt bottom on a 700 but if you have the rifle on your shoulder and adjust the gun from sliding you hand will naturally hit the trigger guard area and you could push it. Most guns with the pivot type may get pushed to, since if on the right shoulder it can rub on your body or belt even a pack of you got one.
some say it's impossible to push the bolt bottom on a 700 but if you have the rifle on your shoulder and adjust the gun from sliding you hand will naturally hit the trigger guard area and you could push it. Most guns with the pivot type may get pushed to, since if on the right shoulder it can rub on your body or belt even a pack of you got one.
Ive found the major issue I've had with the Remington bolt retention system is the connector from the bottom of the trigger to the back of the bolt stop. It doesn't take much to bend one enough to bind it up.
Again, I've never had a 700 bolt open on me, but I have reinstalled the trigger and got that little flat piece bent enough that it would stick the bolt stop down. Its easy enough to fix, usually the little tab at the end gets bent forwards and doesn't contact the notch in the bolt stop. It took me a while to figure that out tho lol.
If one never removes their trigger, and it isn't janky from the factory its likely never going to be an issue. I do prefer the bolt stops on the side of the receivers like the Bergara and Christensen use tho.
d2wing
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Thanks for the explanations guys. I have hunted with several Remington rifles and never had an issue like that. You would have to have the bolt open and the latch open accidently at the same time. Seems unlikely to me, but Apparently it happens. I thought the lock on the Tikka was just to aggravate me. Now I know why it's there. I guess if I had lost a bolt or magazine I would be concerned too. I'll have to ask my Marine sniper grand nephew how many push ups for losing a bolt.
BreechFace
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I appreciate a locking bolt safety, but also really appreciate a 3-position safety more specifically allowing me to lock the striker with a free bolt to load and unload rounds with an extra layer of precaution for my hunting rifles. If I'm building up a bench or target rifle these features mean less to me although I still prefer them.
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