Help please? Reloading only .223

[docgary]

After reviewing countless posts, stickies and "ABCs of Reloading",
I would like some confirmation on my take on reloading.

Initially, I plan on only reloading match ammo for .223.
The purpose wil be accuracy and precision from 100 to 300yds
in my custom AR (Krieger 26 in SS barrel, 1:9)
Speed and volume are not important at this time.
200 rds per hour is more than enough - I shoot 600 to 800 rds per month.

I plan on investing in quality brass ie Lapua, Norma - since the 10+ reloads cuts the cost down
to less 'reloadable' brass like Lake City and Win and the quality is superb.

My understanding is:

"A turret is a 3 or 4 station press that holds one round

A 550 is a turret that holds 4 rounds

If I want to use my 550 like a turret, I can. If I want a round every stroke of the handle, I can."

So, there is no need to change out dies at each stage on a single stage press, correct?

If this correct, would not the Dillon 550 be the best choice since it offers the future use of incresed production?
Or do the turret press type and single stage presses in general produce better accuracy with superior quality control?

If not, how about 2 or 3 recommendations for my needs other than the Dillon?

TIA
docgary

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Go with the Dillion 550. BTW Price goes up about $20 Jan 1, so better hurry.

I have a 550 that I do a majority of my reloading on. I also have a Lee Turret that I use for decapping, and more forgiving, small run stuff, ie 45lc, In my opinion there is too much play in the turret of the Lee to give quality accurate reloads for what you are wanting to do. As far as the press goes, I would go Dillion and not look back.

Scales, tumblers, misc, Look at other cheaper brands, and buy the same quality without the inflated price tag.

 

[rcmodel]

I wouldn't plan on getting 10x reloads out of any brand of .223 brass, in any brand of AR-15.
It won't last that long, safely.

The AR-15, unlike all bolt-actions, and most semi-autos, does not have a planned gas escape route in the event of a ruptured case or blown primer.

If a case lets go, the AR will more then likely let go as well.

If it was me, I would plan on using less expensive mil-sup or normal commercial brass and getting rid of it after 3 - 4 reload cycles just to be safe.

As for a turret vis a single-stage press?
IMHO: Changing dies is much ado about nothing!

I load with a 30 year old RCBS Rock-Chucker. I load .223 in batches of 100, or as many as 500. Even occasionally 1,500 like I did this summer.
I load the bigger bolt-gun center-fire rounds in generally no less then 50 round batches.

The thing is, I run them through in batches, and only need to change dies three times.
Once with the sizing die when I start, and once halfway through when I seat bullets, and then again to crimp them all.
In total, it takes me no more then 30 seconds to screw a die in & out of a press three times while loading 50 rounds, or 1,500.

In the grand scheme of things, changing dies, or not changing dies, is not even a blip on the radar or a tick of the clock of the total time spent reloading 50 rounds.


rcmodel

 

[kir_kenix]

if u dont want the hassle of resetting ur dies, the hornady lock-n-load conversion system is a nice investment.

for the best quality ammununition possible, im going to suggest a single stage. it forces u to slow down, check each step, and is very precise. cant go wrong w/ a rock chucker or similar. some turret presses will develop just a tad of play over time as well (which i dont think is a problem in most pistol outfits), and u might find this slighty less precise then a good single.

10+ reloads might be overly optamistic because of the full length resizing that is going to be required out of ur AR. i use winchester brass, partly because i lose 1/4 of them out of semi autos.

 

[rcmodel]

If your dies have lockable lock-rings, you don't have to adjust then every time you change them.

I have 30 year old dies that haven't had the lock-ring set-screws loosened since they were adjusted the first time I used them!

All you do is screw them down tight and goforit!

IMHO: The Hornady LnL is another thing that never needed to be invented.
An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem!


rcmodel

 

[Mr White]

RCBS Rock Chucker.
If quality match ammo is your thing, as it is mine, you'll want to do every step of every round by hand. For plinking, I don't care if the powder measure drops a quarter grain more than the last one, but for my match loads, I weigh every load. With a progressive, you also lose the feel of a hand primer to know when the primer pockets are too big.

 

[Walkalong]

IMHO: The Hornady LnL is another thing that never needed to be invented.
An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem!

Yep.

My Projector works just fine. It does not take much more time to screw the dies out than taking them out of the LNL's bushings and with the lock ring snugged down they go back to the same spot every time. I think the LNL has improvements over the Projector, but the LNL Bushing part was a solution for a non problem. I am sure it is a tad more convenient, but like rcmodel said, it is a small part of the process and not a big deal in the overall sequence.

The Progressives and the Turret presses are nice and speed things up, but are not a necessity.

 

[Bowfishrp]

I have a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP and use it like a single stage for rifle rounds. I run them all through to size and decrimp. I then trim, debur, and prime by hand. Then load powder in batches of 50 in a tray. Then I pop the seater die in the press and load. In this last step it is one finished round per handle pull...or really you could say it was two handle pulls per.

I do it like this because I can check every powder drop for accuracy. I use this press because I load about 6-7 other cartidges with it. Of course the handgun rounds use the full capabilities of the press. I like the L-N-L AP press because it is auto-indexing.

I see no reason why you could not use any progressive press this way too.

 

[kir_kenix]

i agree that the LNL is not completly necessary, but it is handy. i have a press set up w/ LNL bushing for calibers i dont reload often, and its a quick way to load up a couple cylinders worth of calibers that i rarely reload for. i could see where some wouldnt like the system, but i find it to be easy system to load a few rounds.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

I use my Rock Chucker to size/deprime 308 and 30.06. Trickle the powder for accuracy, then seat and crimp.

I use the Lee 3 station turret press for 30-30 and 223. I size and deprime, trim and debur, then go back and put in the dies for powder charging, bullet seating and crimping.

I use my 550B for all my pistol calibers.

Since I do it all for fun, the time spent on any part of it doesn't matter. It's all fun.

 

[mc223]

Someone needs to tell my plinking brass about that 10 times thing. Some is past 15 loadings. I do not load to max, just good accuracy.
I anneal my match brass. Some is at 20 loadings. And all from an AR:banghead:
My RL-550 has served me well for years. IMHO MUCH better than any turret and still user freindly.
Stone age loading tools are not better.

 

[Shoney]

I have both a 550 and a Hornady LNL progressive. A friend has a 650. We started doing runout data on all three machines after seeing posts bout accuracy of the machines.

Much to the chagrin of my buddy, the Hornady LNL progressive puts out a substantially better run out, thus yielding a more accurate round.

If a person has the choice to buy a new progressive, I cannot, repeat cannot understand why anyone would choose the less accurate and higher price 550 over the LNL.

 

[Walkalong]

I think the slack in the bushings lets the round "flex" and line its self up better. Kind of like the Forster Coax press does with the way it holds it's dies. That press has always been a standard for making ammo with little runout. Just guessing here about the LNL's success. The Coax is time proven and it's setup is the reason. Also like Lee's floating seater stem in it's seater dies that come with the collet sizers. They do a great job.

 

[mc223]

We started doing runout data on all three machines after seeing posts bout accuracy of the machines.

Please post the data.

If a person has the choice to buy a new progressive, I cannot, repeat cannot understand why anyone would choose the less accurate and higher price 550 over the LNL

Please post the data.

 

[bigbird1]

I too was in you shoes last month , I read every night for weeks, the hornady Lock N load is winning all the articles I have read , sure there are some die hared blue blood people who will always like the blue and the cost, (higher cost doesn't always mean better) So do some research you will find the lock and load the best deal for the money and is rated up more so with the Dillon 650 and not the 550b, so press for press the hornady is a better deal , plus they have a 1000 free bullets till the end of next year (2008) some have sold them (bullets) on ebay and got the press really cheap ,like 160.00 . I just couldn't see paying extra for the name. Oh, Midsouth shooters supply is the cheapest right now, at 319.99 - free bullets = around 160.00 in press , or keep them and shoot them up.

here is some great reading for those who are wanting to choose a press!!

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

 

[Sport45]

I have a 550b and like it. But I use my old Lyman turret for .223 and 30-06. For 7.7Jap and other less-often used cartridges I still use my Lee Challenger.

For rifle loading I like to visually check the powder charge with them all setting side by side in a block. I can't do that on a progressive. Heck, it's hard enough to see inside a .223 case in the load block. I don't know how I'd do it on the 550b.

I shoot cast bullets in handguns and can handle a squib load a lot better than I could in a rifle with a small, jacketed bullet possibly getting stuck in a long barrel. My problem with the 550b has always been squib or no-loads when the through-bolt came loose on the powder measure. I've never double-charged on the Dillon.

 

[redneck2]

This is coming from a Dillon owner...

I guess one of the questions would be "are you ever going to load pistol?" If not, a turret would be about as fast and less cost than using the Dillon one round at a time. If you might, I'd strongly consider the 550 or the Hornady L-n-L. When I load rifle, I load one at a time and leave the locator buttons out. I can pull each round out to measure powder, etc. When you're setting bullet depth you can pull it out easily to check adjustments.

That said, if you get started with a single stage or turret and decide to go progressive later, you could still keep the old one set for rifle, though it takes more room and means duplication of equipment.

As for accuracy and run-out, IMO it's more a function of the dies and set-up unless the press has a lot of slop. The die holds the body of the shell while the bullet is being seated, so that should control run-out. In an article in Handloader (IIRC) a few years ago, they mentioned double seating the bullet (seat it, lift the handle and turn the case 1/4 turn and reseat).

I like Lee dies. They seems very well made. I also use Honady dies with the sliding seater. Redding dies are supposed to be the most accurate but cost significantly more.

As already noted, IMO case life is typically determined by the power level of the load. Hot loads burn thru cases faster.

 

[stubbicatt]

As far as runout goes, the inside neck lube has a huge effect on runout as the case is dragged over the expander ball. Too brass uniformity has much to do with runout. And even if, while cold sizing, your cases come out with little concentricity, they bow like a banana when you actually fire them in the chamber towards the thick side of the casing. Years ago experiments at NECO indicated that lack of concentricity was not an issue so long as the rounds were oriented the same way in the chamber when you closed the bolt.

Go with what you like. I seriously doubt that you are going to be able to tell a whole lot one press from another based on runout specs.

I bought one of those Lee Classic Cast turret presses for loading small batches of 223 or 308. It works great, and can be used as either a semi progressive press or a single stage. I do not see any problem with the "slop" in the turret head with dies that are properly adjusted. Shoulder setback readings are quite consistent, and using Lee's Dead Length seating die, I get good uniformity in seating depth as well.

For my progressive loading these days I use a Dillon Super 1050. It is set up with 223 dies, and I do not have any immediate intention of ever changing to another caliber due to the huge PITA that goes along with that.

If you start with the Lee Classic Cast turret I think you will be well served in your choice. I have sold my Forster CoAx as it didn't load any better ammo than any other press I have used, and you had to use Forsters lock rings on the press.