Help with caliber on form 1

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Ryanxia

Ryanxia

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So... I have an M92 PAP AK pistol in process and I just watched a video (see below starting at 1:27) where he selected 7.62x39 as the caliber and they denied him saying it should be 7.62 (no x39). Few other people have hinted that this is what they require now (which is a joke :banghead: ).

So I checked mine and I selected 7.62x39
What do you guys think I should do? Wait and see? Contact them and ask?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOsZXiRY2XU

Someone else asking and mixed responses:
http://ingunowners.com/forums/class-iii-nfa/387826-sbr-m92-question.html
 
I said screw it and sent them an email.

I have a pending form 1 in process and for the caliber I selected 7.62x39 which is what is stamped on my firearm, however I have heard from others that submitted a form 1 for this type of firearm that they were denied because they were told it needed to be 7.62 (which does not make any sense).

Is there any way you can confirm that 7.62x39 will be acceptable for a Zastava M92PV PAP AK?

Thank you for your assistance.
Click to expand...
 
7.62x39 is the caliber and case length together.

7.62 is the cailber or 30 caliber
 
Added

7.62x39 is common Russian

7.62x51 is common .308

7.62x54R Russian

7.62x55 30/06

7.62x40 300AAC
 
So 7.62x39 should be suitable wouldn't you think? If I just said 7.62 I could be talking about a .308 or 7.62x54r, you would think they would want that distinguished.
If they didn't want the case length why even have it as an option at all?
 
I agree that it is confusing, but it is their rules and they are their to protect us.

If you have a AR15 that is SBR in 5.56 you can have as many short uppers in different calibers you want, as long as it can be made back to the Form1 form, but your Form1 can't say "multi" as caliber, even though receivers are being marked/made/sold as such.

Kinda like the "make an AR15 receiver into a pistol first, so that you can make it into a rifle if you choose, then back to a pistol".
 
jerkface11 said:
So you could just put .30?
Click to expand...
I applied for this one 7 weeks ago and selected 7.62x39. I emailed the ATF, hopefully they will respond so if it is going to be denied I can cancel it now and start over rather than finding out 10 more weeks from now.
 
Ive put .30 caliber on an AK SBR form 1 and was approved. 7.62X39 is not a caliber designation
 
I have form 1's approved with "5.7x28mm", "5.56", "9mm", "7.62x51", ".22LR", and ".300 AAC"
I have form 4's approved with "7.62", "9mm", ".30-06", and "12 GAUGE"

I think it just depends on the examiner.
 
I sent mine in as 7.62 only, I saw the same info. No sense in testing the waters for 7.62x39.
 
Do you have to enter ".30 caliber" or "30 caliber" or ".308"? Do you have to write numbers?

Or can you write "thirty caliber"?
 
All of my .30 caliber form 1's i.e. 7.62X39 and 300 BLK and silencers were entered as ".30 " caliber.
 
BK said:
Do you have to enter ".30 caliber" or "30 caliber" or ".308"? Do you have to write numbers?

Or can you write "thirty caliber"?
Click to expand...
It's a drop down menu, you have to pick one. If they want the caliber and not the whole cartridge then they shouldn't let you select the cartridge, of course whoever they hired for their website is barely competent as it is.
 
Ryanxia said:
It's a drop down menu, you have to pick one. If they want the caliber and not the whole cartridge then they shouldn't let you select the cartridge, of course whoever they hired for their website is barely competent as it is.
Click to expand...
That's an understatement if there ever was one. I can't think of any Gov't websites that are functional at a level you would have found commercial websites at in 1994.
 
yugorpk said:
That's an understatement if there ever was one. I can't think of any Gov't websites that are functional at a level you would have found commercial websites at in 1994.
Click to expand...
Absolutely true. It should be a mirror image of Amazon. :)
Or better yet like I've always said, if they insist on keeping the NFA and collecting their $200 bribe, there should be a system where Class 3 dealers can fill them out same day. If we could walk away same day with a pre 86' MG, suppressor or SBR it wouldn't be half as bad.
 
I had one approved as 7.62, I just went with what was in the drop down on the efile.
Click to expand...

You might think so, but you'd be wrong! When Eforms first went live i was one of the first 20K or so to use it and chose "multi" from the drop down box as that was what is on the lower. I had one paper form approved as "multi" then others rejected later, but it was a one week fix with paper. Since it was now on the drop-down figured it must now be allowed. Wrong. Wasted a couple of months :( At least then they refunded my money in a couple of days.

I complained, did fat lot of good (maybe that's why my money came back fast) , but last time I was there "multi" was not in the drop-down box.
 
From the instructions:
ATF said:
Description of Firearm and Markings.
(1)
Item 4a. If you are
modifying an existing firearm, enter the name and location of the
original manufacturer. If you are creating the firearm, enter your name,
city and state. (2) Item 4b. The types of NFAfirearms are listed in
instruction1c. (3) Item 4c. Specify one caliber or gauge. If there is
another designation, indicate the designation in item 4h. (4) Item 4d.
Show the model designation (if known). (5) Items 4e and 4f. Specify
one barrel length and overall length in items 4e and 4f as applicable.
Note: if the firearm has a folding or collapsible stock, the overall
measurement is to be made with the stock extended. (6) Item 4g. Do
not alter or modify the serial number of an existing firearm. Enter the
existing serial number in item 4g. to register the firearm. (7) Markings:
The maker is required to mark the firearm with his name, city and state.
All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102
Click to expand...

There is no actual statute or rule that says you must only enter one caliber, or that it must be just the number. It is up to the examiner. The instructions quoted above are from the new form. The old one didn't specify. It looks to me like you can still specify more than one caliber, you just put the note in box 4h. It also says the same thing about barrel length and OAL. The new form 4 instructions go on to say "If there are additional barrel and overall lengths associated
with the description of the firearm, include this information in item 4h. or
on a separate sheet of paper." I wonder what form 4's are going to start looking like.
 
Those instructions are no where on the eform system so no one would have any way of knowing that (unless you were printing it off and sending it snail mail). Even so, I would've still overlooked it and put 7.62x39 as caliber even though the technical definition would just be 7.62.

Oh well, hopefully they will get back to me or else approve it when the time comes.
Funny how the system gives you the option to 'Edit' line items but when you go in to edit everything is greyed out. :)
 
UPDATE Just received word back and the ATF said that they have a work around for the 7.62x39 vs 7.62 and my form should be fine. :)
 
You can't use "multi" anymore but you can list additional calibers in 4 h.
 
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