Help With Practice?

[Vartarg]

I'm new to IDPA....have shot two matches and will shoot another this coming Sunday morning. I enjoy it, and have plenty of room for improvement!

I've searched the site, and read some posts....learned about "Bill Drills" for example.....but would be interested in your input on other way to practice to improve my IDPA related gun skills.

Many thanks,

George

 

[ny32182]

Bill drills are good, as are El Prez and other similar common drills that incorporate draws, splits, transitions, and reloads. Splits, transitions, and reloads are the three things you are guaranteed to do very often at any given match, so they are the best thing to practice.

If you don't have one, you NEED a shot timer to practice. Without it you have no way to gauge your progess, or set goals, etc.

The classifier is a good thing to shoot in practice; it covers many of the skills you use in a match, and has the variety of a little bit of everything mixed in.

And above all, remember that it isn't about how fast you can shoot, it is about how fast you can shoot zeros. You can't score your best at any level with a lot of penalty time. After each match, you can add up all your penalty time (time, not points... so, points/2, plus any additional penalties you might have had such as procedurals, etc) and divide it by your total match score, and this will give you a number. If this number gets over about 12%, it is time to slow down and get some better sight picture before shooting. If it gets under 6 or 7% you might consider speeding up a bit. These are the typical thresholds I look for, and I run this analysis on every single match, club, sanctioned, doesn't matter.

 

[waktasz]

and

 

[Sam1911]

I'll second the idea of shooting the classifier match as good basic practice.

I did that once or twice a week for an entire fall -- and was able to measure progress easily as I could compare real scores from one session to the next.

I could see if my short game was too slow, or I was pushing my longer range shots too fast for my abilities. The familiarity of the routine helped me to be able to look past the distraction of a new course of fire each time and let me see how I was improving in my actual shooting skills. If I introduced a technique change or played with my speed/accuracy balance, I got comparable feedback about whether that change was beneficial or harmful.

I also have a pet theory about moving up in classifications which loosely stated, goes something like this:

The step from Novice to Marksman is all about basic familiarity with your gun, working on the (non-square) range, and the game itself.

Moving from Marksman to Sharpshooter tends to come with improving fundamentals, or more to the point, reintroducing shooting fundamentals once you've developed some comfort and familiarity with the practical shooting discipline. (Most people have no idea how much it can screw up a "good" shooter to introduce something like drawing from a holster, shooting while moving, or requiring them to follow even a simple stage description "plot.")

Moving from Sharpshooter to Expert seems to have a lot to do with footwork and efficiency. Studying how to reduce or eliminate the huge amounts of non-shooting time spent moving from point A to point B, on transitions between targets, and in visualizing and anticipating a few steps ahead so you don't have to waste time in orienting/analyzing as you address a new target or group of targets.

Moving to Master is all about refinement and practice, better practice, and smarter practice. Like the kinds of analysis ny32182 is suggesting. Not just "I shot well" or "I shot poorly," but "I can afford to trade some accuracy here to gain speed in this area, but I need to slow down over here because my points down on that kind of target are killing me."

 

[MrBorland]

Regular dry fire practice. It will help your gun handling & reloading skills dramatically, so it's one less thing you'll actually have to think about while you're shooting.

Steve Anderson's book, Refinement & Repetition, shown in waktasz reply, is an excellent source. Ben Stoeger's 15 minute dry fire routine is good as well. There are a bunch of dry fire drills on-line as well. Check out Youtube - some really excellent vid there, too. I pasted some examples below.

Lastly, I'll add that IMO, quality dry fire is as much about vision - seeing what you need to see - as it is about gun handling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKc2w2sPxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1XC8k-tZc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLRxohRdIys&feature=player_embedded

 

[Hk Dan]

Yes--Dryfire is required, and "Refinement" is a good start. So is "Perfect Practice" by Saul Kirsch. Rather than throwing a bunch of things together, like the El Pres or the ZClassifier (no disrespect intended, guys) I would work on isolating skills at your level. In other words if you want to work on splits start with the gun out and don't try to add in a draw, a reload, etc. Just keep it simple and find out what works and what does not.

You need a shot timer, or an app for your laptop or I Phone that will act as one. THey are commonly available. For actual shot timers I like the Pact Club TImer III and the CED 7000. Both are about $120.

My routine goes like this:
1 magazine of group shots, going for as many hits as I can on 2.5" circles at 25 yards.
1 mag of 1 shot draws on an A zone plate at 10 yards.
1 Magazine of 2 shot draws on same.
Bill Drill, 3 reps, at 7, 10, and 15 yards.
Elp Pres, 3 reps at 10 yards.
Mini stages--using the 3 targets I come up with as many permutations as I can, including shooting from unorthodox positions. I try to shoot about 150 rounds in this phase.

 

[g.willikers]

Don't forget to practice the idpa style reloads.
The reload with retention and the tactical reload.
They can really slow you down if not done well.

 

[LiveLife]

Some of these are not specific to IDPA but will help you with any match shooting (scroll to the bottom of links for specific types of training - dry fire, draw, stance, grip, trigger control, engaging target, engaging multiple targets, etc.):

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JULIE_GOLOSKI/julie_goloski.html

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/TODD_JARRETT/todd_jarrett.html

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/PHIL_STRADER/phil_strader.html

 

[GCBurner]

I shot my first IDPA Classifier last weekend, and it shows pretty plainly where my weaknesses lie, and what I need to work on. The stages of the Classifier are there in the IDPA Rule Book, so that's what I'll be using to practice with. Mostly I need practice shooting with one hand, strong or weak, and shooting while advancing and retreating. I still qualified as a Marksman, but had 17 out of 90 shots outside the Zero zones, and one that missed the target completely. Without the misses, it would have made me a Sharpshooter.

 

[Sam1911]

That's really not bad for just starting out. A lot of shooters on their first run rush Stage 3 and go down a LOT of points there. I've scored targets over 30 pts. down!

 

[GCBurner]

That's really not bad for just starting out. A lot of shooters on their first run rush Stage 3 and go down a LOT of points there. I've scored targets over 30 pts. down!

Stage 3 wasn't bad, at least it was all 2-handed shooting, even though the range was longer than the other two stages. Even with my short-barreled Glock 26, I think I was only down 9 on that stage, and I didn't screw up the tactical reloads like I did when I first started out in IDPA earlier in the year. I didn't have any procedural errors this time, either.
I needed to get Classified to shoot in the November match, which will be the IDPA Postal Match.

 

[Sam1911]

...and I didn't screw up the tactical reloads like I did when I first started out in IDPA earlier in the year

Remember, even though the rulebook still says "tactical reload" there, the rules change of several years back says tactical reloads cannot be required, so a reload-with-retention works there, too.

However, it is a good idea as there is a bit of a game advantage to the tac load on string 2 of stage 3. You cannot leave cover until your reload is complete. However, your reload is complete once the mag is seated and the slide is closed. While you can't FIRE until you get that spent mag stowed, you can MOVE. So, fire your first six, tac load, break cover, and get your mag stowed while you're moving up to the barrel. If you can remember to do it, you'll save a part of a second or so over the R-W-R where you've got to finish all the steps before you can move.

 

[Hk Dan]

9 points down on stage 3 is outstanding. As Sam said, I've scored a target with 48 points down on that stage alone! You obviously have the fundamentals down pat, and that's where you should start. Speed will come, just stick to the basics. Push in practice and run about 90% at the match.

 

[GCBurner]

Remember, even though the rulebook still says "tactical reload" there, the rules change of several years back says tactical reloads cannot be required, so a reload-with-retention works there, too.

However, it is a good idea as there is a bit of a game advantage to the tac load on string 2 of stage 3. You cannot leave cover until your reload is complete. However, your reload is complete once the mag is seated and the slide is closed. While you can't FIRE until you get that spent mag stowed, you can MOVE. So, fire your first six, tac load, break cover, and get your mag stowed while you're moving up to the barrel. If you can remember to do it, you'll save a part of a second or so over the R-W-R where you've got to finish all the steps before you can move.

Thanks, those are useful tips to keep in mind for the next time I have to shoot one of these. IDPA is a bit of a transition from just standing still and squeezing the trigger at a bullseye. So far I've just been concentrating on staying focused and not jerking the trigger, I hadn't really put any thought into strategies for competition. My final score for Stock Service Pistol was 176, so I need at least a 25 point improvement to move up to Sharpshooter; it gives me a real appreciation of what it takes to shoot Expert or Master Class.

 

[Sam1911]

I hadn't really put any thought into strategies for competition.

Yup, that's appropriate at your level. How to be accurate and maintain your good fundamentals while speeding up (how to be slow and steady in a hurry), and especially while moving and trying to follow the COF is really a big step for almost all shooters.

In my hypothetical theory of advancement (post 4) grasping the benefits of fast footwork and game strategy tricks like this fits in at about the moving-into-Expert level. You've got to have the gun-handling part of it running as more or less an unconscious process before you get into much strategy or choreography. (IMHO)

 

[MrBorland]

Hk Dan is spot on - 9PDs on stage 3 is excellent. Many lose multiples of that, and it's a real killer.

Sam's advice is spot on too, IMO. "Shoot slow, move fast" is far more effective than the opposite, which many seem to do.

Consider this: A very good shooter can shoot a 12-round stage with movement at about par (12 seconds). If there's no movement involved (e.g. El Prez), the same shooter will likely shoot it in 7.5 seconds or better. That extra 4.5 seconds is movement. Do the math, and you'll see movement accounts for almost 40% of the typical stage time, so after basic gun handling skills, efficiency in movement (while getting your hits) is where the low hanging fruit is (btw, next highest fruit, IMO, are transitions & faster reloads; note that a speedy draw and splits aren't listed - they come with time, and contribute relatively little to your placing until much later).

However, it is a good idea as there is a bit of a game advantage to the tac load on string 2 of stage 3. You cannot leave cover until your reload is complete. However, your reload is complete once the mag is seated and the slide is closed. While you can't FIRE until you get that spent mag stowed, you can MOVE. So, fire your first six, tac load, break cover, and get your mag stowed while you're moving up to the barrel. If you can remember to do it, you'll save a part of a second or so over the R-W-R where you've got to finish all the steps before you can move.

Good advice. If you're not...um..."circumferentially challenged", Sevigny's reload (at 0:55) seems like another good alternative.

IDPA is a bit of a transition from just standing still and squeezing the trigger at a bullseye.

Yes, it is. We've all been there. For some perspective, I did just that (informal target shooting at my own pace) before competing. It really helped with the fundamentals. Then I started shooting ICORE, IDPA & USPSA, and my eyes really opened up. But there's good news - if you make it a goal to apply the fundamentals better and faster every time you shoot (and be patient with yourself), you'll improve quickly.

For some perspective, I took 3rd Master at IDPA Worlds (a few weeks ago) in my 2nd year of competition. But for a very expensive miss on...you guessed it...stage 3, I would've classified as a Master 9 months after starting as a novice. The points I'm trying to make are 1) practice, patience, and a little instruction will take you far, and 2) never abandon the fundamentals.

I wish you good shooting!

 

[Sam1911]

3rd Master at IDPA Worlds

Ooooh! I had no idea! Congratulations!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Congrates indeed...well done

 

[9mmepiphany]

next highest fruit, IMO, are transitions & faster reloads;

This certainly stood me in good stead recently at Gunsite.

We were shooting a little steel (poppers) on the forth day and got into a mano v mano duel. Five poppers at 10 yards. Each person shot two, reloaded and first person to hit the third won.

I didn't realize my reactions were quite that slow, but everyone was beating me on the draw and to the first shot on the first popper. But if I could catch up by the second popper, the match was mine...as my reloads and time back on the last target were just smoother.

Now if I could just get my eyes to look through the center of my tri-focals

 

[MrBorland]

Thanks, Sam & 9mm. Between the heat, bugs, rain & mud (and tough Cs of F), I'm happy. I tanked 2 stages, and it cost be bad. World Champs don't tank stages, it seems, so more consistency is a good next goal, and I'm looking toward the Indoor Nats this February.

BTW, Sam, I'm born & raised in PA. I keep me eyes open for a match in PA to hit when visiting family, so maybe I'll get to shoot a match with you sometime.

I didn't realize my reactions were quite that slow, but everyone was beating me on the draw and to the first shot on the first popper. But if I could catch up by the second popper, the match was mine...as my reloads and time back on the last target were just smoother.

Indeed! Well done! Consistent & smooth reloads are money in the bank, though I'm preaching to the choir, it seems

 

[Sam1911]

...so maybe I'll get to shoot a match with you sometime

That would be stellar![/I As Walt Jones says, now I can be beaten by an entirely better class of shooter!