high volume 8mm mauser reloading

[justin22885]

since im going to be naming 8mm mauser as one of my cartridges i intend to stock up for and shoot a lot, one of the calibers i am consolidating to for the big stuff, i will be reloading a lot of it, over the next few years, thousands of it

i will probably be buying and reforming once fired 30-06 brass so i need a way to consistantly anneal larger quantities of the stuff to handle the stresses of reshaping it.. i will probably need new reloading gear too since previously i preferred using hand loaders for the simplicity and portability but these are not a high volume option.. so for churning out high volumes of inexpensive non match grade ammunition i'm going to need a bench press

i'll probably be using a mauser to test out the loads that i will be working to develop on a small scale to find the load i want to essentially standardize for all my needs, this will include the usage in bolt actions, semi automatics both bigger in size like the FN49, hakim, G43, but also in a compact AK-100 series clone based on the yugo M76 parts, so i will need to determine how short of a barrel i am willing to go with that and the best load for that application, and also LMG builds since i will be assembling MG34 and 42 parts kits into functioning semi auto rifles.. i'd like to develop one load that can work in all these, im thinking of cloning the WWII german 197 grain load but im not opposed to a lighter recoiling 150 grain load

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so, any recommendations for reloading equipment, load information, powders, etc?.. the only bigger caliber (bigger than 308) that i've reloaded for is 7.62x54R and i've used primarily H4895 powder.. the powder selection is where i'm going to need the most assistance, id like to find a powder that offered consistant performance, lower costs, and maybe optimize for shorter barrel lengths if possible

so, any information/assistance will be appreciated

 

[kcofohio]

I have only reloaded a 150 or so rounds in 8mm.

Varget with a Sierra 200 gr. HPBT (Match #2415) did well, and they're not too overly priced.

IMR 4350 with Hornady's 170 gr. RN was fair.

These were all shot from a WWII '41 stock Mauser, iron sights.

BTW, Hodgdon has several loads showing for H4895 (125-220 gr.) on their site. So you might be able to stick with that powder.

 

[justin22885]

i'll check out hodgdon, also im not sure if i want to go with the 150 grain load or the 197-200, seems like the 197 would give me more range, more energy down range but the 150 would be lighter recoiling and lighter feeling when fired in semi automatics, but the BC on 150 grain bullets seems pretty low

i will probably clone either the S patrone or s.S patrone german loadings from the early 20th century but probably with more modern powders

why is the SAAMI on this only 35,000 PSI?.. it can handle at least as much pressure as the 30-06 case, and the mauser action can handle well into the magnum calibers.. what exactly is it that this neutering for safety is there for? what cant handle the full powered loads?

 

[kcofohio]

why is the SAAMI on this only 35,000 PSI?.. it can handle at least as much pressure as the 30-06 case, and the mauser action can handle well into the magnum calibers.. what exactly is it that this neutering for safety is there for? what cant handle the full powered loads?

I may be mistaken, but I think it was to avoid over-pressure by somebody loading the Pre-WWI Mausers (.318" barrel) with a .323" bullet.

 

[justin22885]

i see.. anyway, are there any less expensive sources for large amounts of gunpowder?.. bulk, surplus, etc?.. im not making match grade ammo

 

[Edarnold]

Be careful of cut-down 30-06 brass for making 8x57 cases! Thin commercial cases like Remington are less likely to be a problem; military brass is often thicker, and you may find the necks of your reformed cases too thick because you are using part of the original shoulder. If you run into this, you will have to inside ream the cases since the inside diameter will change from front to back. Maybe you would be better off getting ready made brass from a supplier like Graf & Sons? Prvi and S&B both make first class brass if you get some.

 

[Edarnold]

About the SAAMI pressure, there were many Commission 1888 rifles sold in the US before WW2, with the original 8x57I chambering and .318 groove diameter. Rather than depend on customers actually reading the warnings on the box, US makers relied on a thin-jacketed bullet at reduced velocity and pressure to accommodate both the I and IS barreled guns. The importation of Norma ammunition to the U.S. in the 1950's was the first wide availability of properly loaded loaded ammo for both bore sizes. I can speak from experience that the 196gr HPBT 8x57 IS Norma load was no weakling!

 

[kcofohio]

From what I have seen lately, the non-50 BMG surplus powder that is in stock is about as much as the commercial powders.

Wideners has IMR 4350 8# for $169 + shipping and hazmat.

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=1612&dir=278|283|310

Hi-Tech Ammunition has WC 845 (good for 223 & 308) 8# for $144 + shipping and haz-mat. Unsure about load data being available for 8mm.

http://hi-techammo.com/

Otherwise, keep an eye out, when you see someone getting the powder you desire in, most other etailers will usually follow.

BTW, Lyman's has a pamphlet size load data titled "Historic Military Calibers". For around $5, it has been a good goto for my Mauser and Mosin reloading.
Cabela's usually carries these in their reloading section if you're near one.

 

[justin22885]

i intend to fully neck ream, trim, and anneal all 30-06 cases i convert to 8mm mauser

anyway, lets discuss reloading gear for a moment, i dont currently have a reloading press and i'm going to need one, for high quantity reloading should i invest in the progressive stuff or will the single stage stuff suffice?.. i havent reloaded in such high volumes

the way i currently load is one stage at a time, as opposed to one cartridge at a time, but having a mechanism to automatically charge each case and seat each bullet it could really cut my time down.. though i do have periods of down time without much to do where i can really grind at it and reload large amounts via single stage

 

[Edarnold]

If you are going to be reloading after firing your loads in military auto-loaders, you will need to full-length resize some seriously expanded cases. Progressive presses do OK with pistol and small (5.56 NATO) rifle rounds, I doubt if they would serve your purpose. Get the turret-top RCBS press and use it for the rest of your life. BTW, IMR 4895 will do fine in 8x57, as will H380 and most other medium rate powders.

 

[RAT807]

I have some WWII surplus 150gr 8mm ammo and it's not week either. I have loaded up some 196 gr Hornady match hpbt and pushed it to over 2600 fps. I wouldn't want to shoot that load a bunch as it can be punishing. I also do not like the BC on the 150 gr so I'm going with a Hornady 170 gr SST, about all I can find below 200 grs.
H4895 looks pretty versatile for different bullets weights and good velocities.

 

[jmorris]

... i will be reloading a lot of it, over the next few years, thousands of it

How many thousands are we talking about, over how many years?

5,000 over 5 years, would be pretty easy on a angle stage but 250,000 over 5 years would demand different equipment.

 

[delrom418]

i will probably be buying and reforming once fired 30-06 brass

If you will be buying brass, why not just buy 8x57 brass and skip all the work of reforming 30-06 brass. I've been buying mine from Graf's.

i will probably clone either the S patrone or s.S patrone german loadings from the early 20th century but probably with more modern powders

This would be a good load if you're trying to standardize one load for all your rifles because it's strong enough to cycle the actions of the semi-autos, and it's short enough to fit in their magazines. I believe this load was a 198 grain full metal jacket traveling around 2,500 fps.

I shoot a Yugo Mauser and a Hakim in vintage military rifle matches so I've had better luck tailoring loads to individual rifles.

My Yugo likes 200 grain Noslers seated out a little longer (3.250"), but then they don't fit into my Hakim's magazine. It gets a load sized at 3.190" with 150 grain Hornady RN SP.

As for powders, the Yugo likes IMR 4350, and the Hakim likes IMR 4895.

Good luck with your project!

 

[justin22885]

well, i may just purchase 1000 pieces of 30-06, have the powder, bullets, and primers stored to reload these cases maybe another four times, and basically just have 1,000 on hand at once, as i shoot i reload to keep up roughly 1,000 ready to go.. i could go with a more maximum pressure load, stretch the 8mm mauser to its limits but theres really no need to do this, a moderate military load would be sufficient and keep pressures relatively low for the purpose of preserving my brass to get more reloads out of them.. i think i will probably stick with H4895, looks like a 45.5 grain load with a 198 grain bullet would equal the WWII s.S patrone cartridge perfectly and i really dont need anything more than that so thats probably what i will do since most the 8mm rifles i am interested in is the WWII german stuff like the mauser, G43, MG34, etc

i think edarnold is right, with a progressive press the lever will be performing all the tasks at once and with a full length rifle and full length sizing this could be difficult, so i will stick with a turret or single stage.. so whats the purpose of the turret press?.. i mean, i know you have all your dies for a specific caliber all set up on an easy to swap plate but realistically the time saved vs a single stage seems pretty negligible as i would take all fired brass and run them all through the sizing and decapping die before any of them get a new primer or see their first drop of powder.. so wouldnt reloading speeds be negligible vs the single stage?

 

[justin22885]

tell me how this sounds.. say i get a single stage press, and im done shooting for the day, i have 100 rounds of empty, fired brass.. i throw the brass into a tumbler to clean, then start feeding them through a sizing die and decapper.. tossing each one into a box or bin after being sized and capped.. then i cap each piece of brass one by one possibly with a hand capping tool and place htem into a separate bin when finished.. then i switch out to a bullet seating die in the single stage press, maybe one that can feed bullets from a tube.. i use a bench mounted powder dispenser to dispense the load of the chosen powder, place into the press to seat the bullet and im done

simple enough, fast enough with a single stage i think? and then i only need a capping/sizing die and a bullet seating die, i dont need one for pressing in a new primer or powder

 

[Jesse Heywood]

That's the way reloading has been done for years. Mount a powder measure to the side. And when you find a deal at an estate sale pick up a second press. You can't have too many!

 

[justin22885]

ive come to like the little hand capping tools.. you know, the ones where you slide a casing in and give it a squeeze?.. i believe i could go through and cap all my resized brass at a much higher rate with that than doing it on a press.. and if i had the separate powder dispenser with a bullet seating die already on the press i can go from one to the other quicker than i could go back and forth on a progressive press

so im going to keep it simple and go with the single stage

i'm thinking most my rifles i want to be 20" or shorter.. if i do go with shorter barrels, which powders could give me back some of that lost velocity?.. which powders should i consider for shorter barrel lengths?

 

[Jim Watson]

A very ambitious project.
I would first buy a good strong single stage press. The Lee Classic Cast might do the job; I KNOW my old Rockchucker would.
Get a set of standard 8mm loading dies plus file trim die. A deburring tool you can drive with a drill or power screwdriver and some good case lube like Imperial wax will complete the minimum outfit for case forming and loading. You will also need a powder measure and scale.

I would get an assortment of .30-06 brass, lube it up, size it down, trim to 57mm, and deburr. I would then seat a bullet in each common brand and gauge or chamber check them. If they passed, I would not need to neck ream. Either way, I would then load up a batch and shoot them. Reload, shoot again, repeat.
If they formed cleanly and shot for several loadings without splitting, I would not need to anneal.

Note: This is only worthwhile if you can get .30-06 brass free or very cheap. Privi Partisan brass is decent quality and not very expensive. Privi also makes a 198 grain bullet close to German sS.

As above, the equipment you need depends on how much you are loading and shooting.
I have no trouble feeding my good rifles with a single stage, but if I shot them as much as I do pistol ammo, I would want to set up a progressive for bulk rifle ammo.

 

[justin22885]

the bullet i was planning to standardize is in fact the 198 grain prvi partizan for the purpose of duplicating the s.S patrone cartridge.. but even the least expensive 8mm mauser brass is still a far cry from once-fired 30-06.. once-fired 30-06 brass is about $200 less expensive than 8mm mauser which the cheapest i can find is newly manufactured prvi partizan brass at $480/1000

however..not having to put the brass through the stress of resizing, and it being new brass to begin with i can probably get more reloads out of the new 8mm brass which should greatly close the gap on the extra costs right?.. so i think i'll probably just go with 8mm mauser newly manufactured prvi partizan brass, prvi partizan 198 grain .323 bullets and likely 45.5 grains of H4895 which according to hodgedon propels the 198 grain at around 2,500ft/s giving me an almost perfect match for the WWII load which most the guns i'm interested in were designed to fire

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as for the press and my reloading tactics, what i think i will do is buy 1,000 pieces of brass and enough powder, primers, and bullets for a few thousand rounds, after all 1000 pieces are loaded and i do some shooting, i will reload them and keep them separate from my new ammo so i can make sure all the brass gets reloaded an even number of times

for the press i will go with a single stage.. at least at first, i know to avoid C-shaped presses like the least expensive model from lee.. so im thinking the lee classic cast or breechloader will suffice until i feel the need to switch to progressive (not the car insurance)