Highwall Repro's?

[NMRevolverGuy]

Hello all, and thanks ahead of time for any information.

I've been lurking about on this forum now for quite some time, and finally decided to hop on here and ask my questions my dang self So here it is; I will, with any luck, soon be in the market for a new rifle. I have for some time dad an itch to pick up a nice 45-70, in particular a High Wall reproduction. My primary purpose for this rifle will be long range target shooting, A skill I hope to develop through this rifle. I can shoot legally at most any range where I live. My question is this; What would be a "good", reliable high wall repro? I have been considering Winchester and Uberti models, but know little about the quality of Ubertis. Also, the only Ubertis I have seen have had crescent butt plates, which I have read can be rather unpleasant.

Thanks again for the help!

P.S: I cast and reload, though not for 45-70.

 

[Delawarean]

The C. Sharps company of Big Timber Montana makes an 1885 reproduction.

That company is known for very good Sharps rifle repros. I imagine all their rifles are nice.

 

[redneck2]

If you could find one, a Browning Creedmore in .45-90...like the one I have in my safe.

They only made 328 total IIRC

 

[CraigC]

The Uberti rifles are very well put together. IMHO, better than their handguns.

 

[BCRider]

The crescent plate works well IF you use it out on your upper arm by the arm pit as was intended for this style. This puts you in a more side on stance with your strong hand arm held out like a wing much in the style seen in engravings of old Creedmore matches and the like. Then it all works.

But yeah, if you try to use it in the more modern and more square on stance with the plate in your shoulder the two points will give your shoulder a real nasty "snakebite"

 

[NMRevolverGuy]

Thanks for the feedback. My primary concern over the uberties did spring from me handling a few of their single actions and not being particularly impressed. My lgs actually has a Uberti chambered in 45-90. No experience at all with that cartridge though..

And adapting the stance to the crescent plate makes a lot more sense than it being poorly designed! I'll have to find some old illustrations

 

[browningguy]

I have the Japanese made Browning 1885 and it's well built and accurate. It also has the crescent shaped butt plate and it really isn't that bad when fired standing. It sucks on the bench though.

 

[BCRider]

.....it really isn't that bad when fired standing. It sucks on the bench though.

AMEN TO THAT! I found this to be the case with many rifles though. Until I learned to raise them up higher and sit with my back straighter to simulate the sort of upper body posture I'd have when standing. Then the rifle was more free to move my shoulder and things didn't hurt as much.

I've shot .45-70's loaded with various modern smokeless and one guy let me try his 45-70 black powder loads. The BP loads are MUCH easier on the shoulder sitting or standing. It was due to the smokeless loads at the bench before I knew to lift the rife up and use my elbows to brace that made me go with my current 38-55. Even the big heavy Sharps will beat up your shoulder if shot from a crouched over bench style posture and when shooting smokeless 45-70 loads.

 

[Limey46]

An 1885 repro I really like is the Browning BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) made by Miroku in Japan some years back. It's got a heavy 26" target barrel, a butt with a pistol grip, cheekpiece and shotgun-style buttplate (no crescent), and a globe front/Creedmoor-style rear tang sight setup, plus a charcoal-blued receiver and really nice wood. It's handsome, beautifully made, and wonderfully accurate with either black powder or mild-ish smokeless loads. They didn't make very many of them and they're hard to find and a little pricey, usually between a grand and fifteen hundred, but I think they're clearly the best production 1885 repros ever made and every bit as good as custom and semi-custom guns costing double their price or more. I've had mine ten years now. As to shooting from the bench with crescent-butt rifles, I've found that a slip-on recoil pad makes life a little easier. Galco has a nice dark-brown leather model with a velcro fitting flap that doesn't look at all bad on a handsome rifle. I use mine combined with a PAST strap-on shoulder pad, and bye bye pain, hello happy shooting.

 

[NMRevolverGuy]

I have seen one of those BCPR models and they certainly are good looking. Are those models designed to only accept low pressure loads (black powder and equivalent)? Also, for you BP guys, is there any real disadvantage to using black powder over smokeless, aside from possible velocities? Sorry if I'm getting off topic, been saving these questions up for a while

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

I have several Brownings, C. Sharps and Ubertis and they're all fine rifles. My smallest caliber is a .32/20 WCF and the largest a .50-70 with a whole bunch in between. I have never had any problems with any of themover a decade or more.

 

[Limey46]

The Browning BPCR will safely shoot hot smokeless powder 45-70 loads. I referred to "mild-ish" smokeless loads because that's what I enjoy shooting in it. The story is that the gun was marketed to old-timey cowboy shooting competitors, hence the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle name, but both the metallurgy and the strength of the action are more than adequate for modern smokeless 45-70 loads with as much oomph as you care to handle. It's the same action Browning used in their 30-06 B78 hunting rifles, after all. And to answer your second question, yes, there is a major disadvantage to shooting black powder as opposed to smokeless. Black powder is very "dirty" and you have to clean, clean, and clean some more. Also, if you load your own ammo, you have to be VERY careful to keep your black powder loading process absolutely separate from your smokeless loading, unless of course you enjoy unanticipated explosions. Myself, I'm just not willing to mess with it it. I shoot the same mild smokeless load in all my 45-70 rifles, 100-plus years old or brand spanking new.

 

[redneck2]

I have seen one of those BCPR models and they certainly are good looking. Are those models designed to only accept low pressure loads (black powder and equivalent)?

After I got my BPCR, I called Browning. It has a Badger barrel that is rated to modern pressures. The .45-90 is virtually identical to a .458 Win Mag and can be loaded to the same pressures in this rifle (if you want to take the beating). I'd most likely not do it just because it wasn't meant to be a Win Mag. It would do what I need to do at original velocities.

As for values, if you can find one for $1000-$1,500 I'd be all over it. Last ones I saw were going for $2,200+. Check over at the BPCR website.

Some of the guys that want to be original stick to black. It would be fun, but I'm not ambitious enough to go thru all the cleaning required. The residue makes a salt that will rust your gun overnight. And I mean overnight literally

 

[Limey46]

I didn't know they'd gotten that expensive. Until a few weeks ago there was one sitting in my favorite local gun store at $1300 for about six months.

 

[redneck2]

I hope that's the one you got. I'd have bought it just to turn it and make an easy $800-1,000. I turned down $2,200 a couple of years ago.

The story is that the gun was marketed to old-timey cowboy shooting competitors, hence the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle name,

Actually, it's a Creedmore. Replica of the ones used in the matches at Creedmore in the late 1800's. 1,000 yard shoot. That's the reason for the tall rear sight. Mine is identical to the top one shown.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Firearms_for_sale.html

 

[Don McDowell]

Hello all, and thanks ahead of time for any information.

I've been lurking about on this forum now for quite some time, and finally decided to hop on here and ask my questions my dang self So here it is; I will, with any luck, soon be in the market for a new rifle. I have for some time dad an itch to pick up a nice 45-70, in particular a High Wall reproduction. My primary purpose for this rifle will be long range target shooting, A skill I hope to develop through this rifle. I can shoot legally at most any range where I live. My question is this; What would be a "good", reliable high wall repro? I have been considering Winchester and Uberti models, but know little about the quality of Ubertis. Also, the only Ubertis I have seen have had crescent butt plates, which I have read can be rather unpleasant.

Thanks again for the help!

P.S: I cast and reload, though not for 45-70.

As your primary focus with this rifle will be long range shooting, the Winchester bpcr model will serve you quite well. Just be sure and set aside enough money for good sights, otherwise your attempts at long range shooting will not be very fruitful. Also you might want to take a look at the Saeco 645 bullet mould for your casting needs, altho it won't be heavy enough to shoot the NRA bptr national match at Raton, it will do a bang up job to 1000+ yds.

 

[henschman]

I didn't read any of the posts in here, but this thread needs pics.

 

[NMRevolverGuy]

Definitely sounds like the Brownchester BCPR lines are the gold standard as far as production models go. But for the sake of my wallet, what of the Traditional Hunter line? I know they don't have the badger barrel, and that the stock tang sights are somewhat less desirable. Does that produce such a large performance difference when shooting at long ranges?

And I agree with henschman, this thread is woefully lacking in gun porn

 

[Don McDowell]

The sights that come on those traditional hunters probably won't reach 300 yds. That big bead on the front isn't going to help get the groups down in size as it will cover to much of the target at extended ranges.
That full crescent butt plate will make shooting from prone a seriously uncomfortable affair.
Long range shooting with traditional rifles isn't cheap.

 

[redneck2]

I didn't read any of the posts in here, but this thread needs pics

. Dude....click the link. Pops right up. My rifle is on top

http://www.texas-mac.com/Firearms_for_sale.html

The sights that come on those traditional hunters probably won't reach 300 yds. That big bead on the front isn't going to help get the groups down in size as it will cover to much of the target at extended ranges.

The BPCR originally came with a mailbox front sight with various inserts, some of which are specifically made for 1,000 yard use. Still have mine in the original box.

 

[Don McDowell]

My wife on the firing line at a match in Casper with her Winchester bpcr .

 

[browningguy]

My traditional hunter with the tang site would probably go to 1000 although I've never tried it past 600, and I'm not very accurate at that range. I use a fairly hot load for deer hunting, 350 gr. softpoint at 2375 fps and it works excellent out to around 200 yards. Beyond that my tired old eyes just aren't good enough any more.

Ive recently added the 3x repro scope to see how that does.