Historical data on cartridges used on deer?

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"almost all big game was wiped before there ever was a cartridge firearm"

I don't believe that's true. The deer lasted in fairly large numbers in the east until around 1900 and there were certainly cartridge firearms before that. According to people I knew growing up, there were always black bears if you knew where to look.

John
 
I didn't realize until very recently how low the national deer herd actually got. I knew that happened in areas but am surprised nationally. One point to my very unscientific thought process on the 22 relied on a lot of kills between the wars. That may not have been the case.
 
For a lot of settlers in the cultivated areas and grazing areas, big game were considered vermin by some as were predators. Plus it was a business to kill just about any thing that moved for food. I know a guy with 4 gauge punt guns for killing water fowl by the flock. No longer legal of course. In the fifties deer were pretty scarce where I lived. Shooting a deer was an accomplishment. Now there are too many in some areas. It's a big country, I am sure it was different in some areas. There have always been subsistence hunters and sport hunters. It is hard to imagine that elk and buffalo roamed over most of the US at one time.
 
Given the populations of deer and hunters in shotgun only areas I'd say the 12ga is probably going to be near the top of the heap followed closely by the 20ga. In high school I had a buddy who took a deer every year with his 20ga pump and slugs.
 
You have a good point pedal gear. I don't know for sure but I don't think that many use 20 gauge. I have myself but hunting parties I have been in shotgun zone are nearly always 12 gauge all the way around. It would be interesting to know the number of slug sold compared to 30-06. My guess is that more hunters prefer to hunt rifle ares and that's where most deer are. In my state we have both and that is the case. This year I hunted with a 30-06, 12 gauge and 7 MM. I have shot a few with a .223 as well in recent years.
 
I doubt the 30-30 claim as having killed the most deer. I doubt it's even close to the top.


Since the cartridges introduction in. 1894 till the. 60's the 94 and to a lesser extent 336 were rather expensive guns well out of the reach of the working class and poor farmers.

During this time frame American whitetail populations had already been DECIMATED through habitat loss and commercial hunting. Believe it or not 100 years ago most of the land east of the Mississippi had already been completely deforested at least once.

Then along came a depression that all but eliminated the remaining game from hungry folks hunting hoping to merely get a meal out of the deal. You can bet they weren't using guns that cost close to three weeks pay for a man that DID still have a job.

Interject a couple of world wars and 8mm mausers coming over by the train load and selling for pocket change and I seriously doubt 30-30 is even in the top five.

In fact I'd go so far as to wager more deer have been killed since 1970 to today with the popular cartridges of the time than the 74 years previous starting in 1894 when 30-30 was introduced.
 
In fact I'd go so far as to wager more deer have been killed since 1970 to today with the popular cartridges of the time than the 74 years previous starting in 1894 when 30-30 was introduced.

This is most likely true.

The claim that the 30-30 killed the most deer comes from pre WW2 gunwriters. I recently read a Jack O'Connor book and in the 30-30 section he makes the same claim. I don't remember if Elmer Keith said similiar, but overall, none of these guys really had good hard evidence to back up their statements. I think it was based on the impression of the number of 30-30's that were in the woods in the WW1 era, which was when they were kids. Most of these gunwriters died in the 60's, some made it later, Elmer lived a long time, but off the top of my head, Townsend Whelen, Jack O'Connor, Philip Sharpe, they were all gone by the 60's.

The 30-30 was hugely popular around WW1 and it took time for the 30-06 to become even more popular. In my opinion, based on the number of 30-06's I have seen in the woods, that cartridge probably killed more deer than any other cartridge, especially in the post WW2 era.
 
For me, here is the break down of 25 years of hunting. (whitetails only)

Bow- 40+
20ga- 30+
.257Roberts- 4
7x57 (and 7x57AI)- 3
.243Win- 2
.308Win- 1
.223- 1

I think in OH the numbers would be scewed by the shotgun only rule and the long bow season. I remember only being able to take 2 deer a year way back when the herd was small. Now I can get nuisance tags, 6 tags in one state, 6 in another, and keep going from there. This year I put away a total of 11 myself. My daughters each added as well to a total of 16 in my freezer.
 
In The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns (1961), Jack O'Connor stated that the 30-30 had probably taken more deer than any other cartridge. (He was a leading authority on the subject so he should know, right?) But that was in 1961 and the 30-30 was not quite 70 years old. The "balance of power" may easily have changed over the ensuing 50 years.
 
It's all tied to the region and the time period.

I grew up in PA (born in the mid 60's) and probably the most common guns were the 30.06 and the 30-30 with the 270 not far behind. There were a lot of lever and pump guns around but the bolt guns were the only option for "serious hunters". At least that's what all the magazines said... I honestly couldn't say if there were more 06's than thutty-thutty's or not, I never kept tabs. Of course, the 308 is close up there too but I think it lags behind the 06 and the 270 in that part of the country for some reason. Another common gun (when I was a kid but not today) was the 30-40 Krag which goes back to the theory about cheap military surplus guns being popular. I remember my uncles talking about going into the hardware store (before I was born) and they'd have a barrel full of Krags stacked like cordwood for sale for about $4 to $6 each. Wish I could find a couple of them today!

In the mid-east Atlantic states up through the new England area, say from Virginia on up through Maine, I believe that the 30-30 is still a VERY popular caliber but so is the 35 Remington and the 30.06. There are a ton of them around on the used racks. I expect that most of these are guns being sold by the children of the original owners who buy into the hype about the modern magnums and think a 30-30 isn't enough gun. In the last 30 years or so, there has definitely been a big push for and promotion of various new, modern calibers. The 7mm mag, the 243, the 300 mag, heck even 338's but look at all the fancy new calibers that really (in many cases) don't do much of anything special when compared to the old standbys. Calibers like all of the short magnums, super short magnums, ultra magnums etc. See the trend? When I was a kid, the general consensus among deer hunters was that the 30-30, 32 special, 35 Remington, 30-40 family of guns were all great deer guns but somewhere along the way, it started to become commonly accepted thought that if a guy could only own one rifle, it should be powerful enough to hunt not just whitetails but also game like elk, moose, bear etc. This is where the 30.06 seemed to gain such a huge following. Being available in a surplus deal sure didn't hurt. The gun magazines were always promoting hunts for exotic western game and all the hunters from the Midwest, south and northeast of course had dreams of going on such hunts. Many of them, when the opportunity arose to buy a "deer rifle" would buy the bigger, faster, more powerful guns in the hope that "someday" they might get to use them out west.

Also, being guys, there has always been a certain amount of size envy... Mine is bigger, faster etc. The guys with the real experience, those who killed multiple deer every year, quietly and with no competitive egos continued on in many cases with their old classic calibers. It's funny that almost any gun magazine will annually run articles about deer hunting that include statistics on average shot distances. In most cases, the national average last I saw was still under 150 yards and in many parts of the country was well under 100 yards. What can a magnum do at that distance that a 30-30 can't besides blow up more meat?

I think that there is a bit of a push-back trend where a fair number of guys my age give or take a decade, say 40-60 years are returning to the guns they used as kids both for nostalgia sake and quite simply because they do in fact still work and work well. Of those, the 30-30 is probably at the very top of the list.

What's all that have to do with the original question? Well, it's just trying to show that asking about the "most popular" and "most used" deer hunting calibers is sort of a loaded question and the facts are constantly changing. I think you have to go back to the original math in the front of this thread showing that about ten million or more 30-30's were made in this country. Those guns are almost all still out there either being used or sitting in someone's collection. They have been around for a LOOONG time and will still be around for a lot longer time. Todays young hunters probably don't even think they are fit to use but I suspect that in time many will get curious and give them a try. Most will be pleasantly surprised but as long as there gun rags, the internet and hunting videos that are blatant shills for the modern gun companies, the 30-30 and similar classic calibers will probably continue to loose ground. At this time though, I think it and the 06 are probably about tied for most deer killed in the last 100 years.

What do you want to bet that in another 20 or 30 years most people will think that the 223 in an AR platform will have taken more deer than any other gun? Heck by then the young guys might not remember how good the 30.06 is, let alone the 30-30. By then the 30 -30 will be like the old hyphenated calibers are today. You know, ones like the 38-55, 30-40, 32-20, 44-40 etc. Provided of course there is still legal gun ownership in this country.
 
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Some good posts. It brings back memories of my avid outdoorsmen Uncles. I have a pic from the 1930's of two of them with a 30-30 and a 35 Remington pump beside a dugout log cabin with a pair of deer hanging. My dad was deer hunting with them when I was born.
I don't know the answer but we discussed some good points.
 
You don't have to read or consider my opinion, but I do believe the .30-30 is the top killer if not one of the highest for a few reasons.

1. The .30-30 rifle is friendly to not only adults, but to women and children as well. Its size, weight, and relatively low recoil make it a great choice for men, women, and children to use.

2. It has been around since 1894, so it has several decades on many of the popular cartridges around today.

3. Unlike many other rifles, especially surplus rifles, the .30-30 has almost always been available in hunting type loads (soft points, hollow points, and cast lead). Most other war rifles only had FMJ available, and for many hunters this has been a major turn off.

4. The lever action rifle has been a favorite of many because of its appearance and similarity to the cowboy weapons of the late 1800s as well as the popularity gained throughout the first half of the 20th century in numerous cowboy and western films. Because of this, not only was it the dream of many to own these weapons but the excitement of actually using one in the field to take your own food like the told days likely played a big part in its role in hunting.
 
First of all I agree that more whitetail have been killed since 1970 than were killed in the previous 100 years. I have hunted Alabama, Georgia and Florida since the 1960s. I killed my first deer in the late 70s using a 12g with buckshot(no idea what buckshot) and before that we hunted squirrel, rabbit, dove and quail. I went on my first "deer hunt" in 1977 even though I was hunting other game as a 6 year old in the 60s. Yes, back then we often ate squirrel and rabbit.
The whitetail population in the areas I hunted were almost non-existent until the early 70s when they were reintroduced from Wisconsin and a couple of other areas. I think they were reintroduced in the late 50s or 60s but the population were very low for quite a while. In east Alabama we deal with more than one sub species so rutting tendencies can change from county to county. I know that in Russell and Barbour counties we have deer populations that rut in early November and 20 miles away they rut in January. The deer closer to the Chattahoochee River(AL/GA boundary) tend to rut early and supposedly this is based on the different areas these from which these deer originated. I've read the studies and tend to agree with the suppositions.
The point of this is that very few hunters in these states ever even SAW a deer before the 1960s. I grew up hunting with my grandfather, born in 1910, and he didn't own a centerfire rifle at all until the 70s and then he got a 30-30. Shotguns and 22s were all he needed. Now Alabama and Georgia are over run with the critters.

I also agree that weapon preference is very regional. The people that hunt with me virtually all use 30-06 bolt guns. There are a few 270s, 308s and some 243s thrown in and I know a total of one person that hunts with a 223. If you see someone with a lever action it is usually someone that is not a regular hunter but borrowed the gun to hunt for the weekend. I don't know a single hunter that uses 7.62x39 or any of the other lever action calibers. Remember that this is just here in my little area. When I hunt out west I see different preferences.

In the 80s we had depredation permits and often shot the deer with a 22 mag but never a 22LR. We had to leave them where they fell and preferred that they run off and die rather than falling in the middle of the peanut field.

Based on my experience the 30-06 is BY FAR the number one killer of whitetail deer as far as center fire rifles go. 12g was probably in the lead until 10-15 years ago because of all the dog hunting but that has nearly dried up now. As I said earlier this is totally regional and I know there are some states where a lot of deer are killed and rifles aren't even allowed.

I agree that most poachers aren't using a 22. We probably prosecute 5-7 every year in my circle and they are using normal center fire rifles or shotguns. The night shooters are generally riding the roads and shooting deer with shotguns.
 
As a child growing up in the swamps and bayous of eastern Arkinsas, most hunting was done with a 12 gauge shotgun. Buckshot for deer, #4 lead for ducks and #7 1/2 for squirels, rabbits, doves and quail. Not many local hunters could afford more than a 12 ga. shotgun and a .22 rifle.

My father was known as a serious hunter because he killed a deer every year. Not many could make that claim because there weren't that many deer. Rightly or wrongly, he used #4 buckshot. I am not aware of his ever losing a deer because ranges were very short in the swamps and thickets where deer hung out.

We had a freezer for deer, ducks and squirrels, one for our garden vegetables that we put up and another freezer for catfish. The only storebought meat that followed us home was bacon and ground beef.

Where we hunted ducks for food is this one particular area, there is now a duck club with a chef, sauna and a lighted runway. Hunting prices start at $500 per day plus licenses. They offer vegetarian meals on advance request.
 
It may have been said years ago that the 30-30 has taken more deer than any other cartridge but I don't think that is true anymore. Deer population numbers and deer hunting has has made a big jump since WWII when returning servicemen familiar with the 30-06 began hunting and buying surplus military rifles like the 03 Springfield. It has been years since I've seen anyone deer hunting with a 30-30 and good portion of current hunters use a 30-06. Remington and Winchester produced thousands of 30-06 rifles since WWII. If you don't believe me just go Wal*Mart and see what kind of ammo they are stocking and selling.
 
Keep in mind the 30-06 was also used in WW1, and many thousands of doughboys returned home fond of the Springfield Rifle and the -06 cartridge as well.
 
just go Wal*Mart and see what kind of ammo they are stocking and selling.

Around here its mostly 7mm Remington Magnum and .204 Ruger. At least that is what is on the shelves. Guess they are selling everything else.
 
the DNR lists of confiscated guns at their yearly auctions should lead you in the right direction, as far as which cartridges are favorite poacher rounds...
 
An interesting project I've long wanted to start would involve surveying hunters and even poachers to gather statistical info on game kills.

I would would collect such data as round, load, distance to target, organ system hit, and distance animal traveled after impact. I'd then turn that data over to someone who is good at math and hopefully generate some meaningful reports.

Jasonw, studies similar to what you propose have been conducted, for an example see

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

Takeaway is this:

Caliber doesn't matter much (at least on small SC deer)
Softer cup and core bullets work better than harder bullets (though the lead does make its way onto your table, which is bad)
Hit them in the shoulder if you want to anchor them

I've not seen any literature about what round has taken down the most deer. Based on what I've seen in PA and WV I'd guess 30-06, but that's just my locality.
 
Thanks for the link Corn-Picker. Nice to have actual data instead of hearsay and speculation.
To the OP's question, There's is no way to determine an accurate answer to your question. All that can be expressed is speculation and will vary by different personal experiences, said experiences will themselves vary by local.
 
Onmilo said:
I saw a deer down in Texas, whitetail, not a Mule deer mind you, that some dude had howitzered with a .300 Winchester Magnum.
If you've been to Texas and seen the whitetails down there you will appreciate my shock and awe at the sight of that critter.

If you've seen the overpopulate and starving whitetails around Austin then you would be shocked at the use of a .300 Win Mag. If you've seen Texas whitetails in the big South Texas game ranches, then you are seeing deer just as big as any in the nation.

On our little 'ol plot, we took two bucks topping 280 this year. Not fun to get those guys in the mule. .300 Win Mag is pretty common for hunters coming here. Now the guy that brought out the .338 Lapua. That was a bit of sight.
 
Interesting topic.

I would guess that the idea that the 30-30 has taken more deer is because it may have been the top selling sporting cartridge for many decades. I remember reading articles stating that based on sales of sporting calibers, the 30-30 was always the top. Based on sales of sporting rifles, the 30-30 was always the top seller. The rationale is that people don't typically use the 30-30 for anything other than deer hunting consequently it is the number one deer rifle.

Is that true? I don't know.

These days I would probably put the 30-06 if not first a close second behind the 30-30 with the .308 a ways behind those two.

I've been deer hunting for 45 years. Most of the people I know who hunt have either a 30-06, 30-30 or 308. I do know that my dad, many of his brothers, my brothers, my sons, nephews, and a lot of my cousin's first deer was with a 30-30 either a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336. There always seem to be one or more in deer camp. In my family, when you start deer hunting you are handed a 30-30 to use. Whatever you use after that is up to you. My first deer was with a Winchester 94 when I was 14. I worked a paper route until I have enough money to buy a Marlin 336 in 30-30 as my first gun. I would guess that was and perhaps still is (in my family anyway) pretty common.

In regards to commercial hunting vs. sport hunting.

I looked around a bit for my state and found that at the peak of commercial hunting which was in the 1880s. At it's peak, commercial hunters took an average of 66,000 deer annually. By 1900, commercial hunting was being phased out and sport hunting became regulated with licenses etc. By the 1940s the deer herd peaked around 1.3 million, deer hunting licenses averaged about 150,000 and modern deer management came into practice. The deer herd averages around 1.2 million and the annual firearm deer harvest averages around 260,000 from a average number of 670,000 hunters every year.

That's a significant difference in the numbers of deer killed annually between the peak of commercial hunting and modern sport hunting. As such it would appear that sport hunting has taken a heck of a lot more deer than commercial hunting ever did. Of course there are a lot more people now than 100+ years ago and consequently more hunters and more deer taken.
 
ClickClickD'oh I only hunted deer in Bastrop and Travis counties so yes, your assesment is correct.
I did see some massive mule deer out in west Texas and am pretty sure a herd of javalina were planning to eat me,,,, :D
 
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