HK LEM VS Glock Trigger

[razorback2003]

How does the HK LEM trigger compare to a Glock standard trigger? Is it a somewhat like a smooth light DA revolver pull? I like the idea of a polymer gun with a hammer that can be thumbed when holstering, especially seeing the new HK P30 SK model come out. How popular are the full sized P30's and VP9's in IDPA or IPSC?

Is the P30 worth more when you compare it to the VP9? I know the P30's are running a couple hundred more than the VP9's.

 

[tarosean]

How does the HK LEM trigger compare to a Glock standard trigger?

Its worse.

How popular are the full sized P30's and VP9's in IDPA or IPSC?

LOL, I am the only one I have ever seen run an HK in competition and I only did it once.
(sold the gun the next day)

 

[JDR]

Quote:
How does the HK LEM trigger compare to a Glock standard trigger?
Its worse.

Quote:
How popular are the full sized P30's and VP9's in IDPA or IPSC?
LOL, I am the only one I have ever seen run an HK in competition and I only did it once.
(sold the gun the next day)

An HK LEM or Light LEM trigger is Different from a Glock trigger. You may or may not like the LEM, a lot of very accomplished shooters like them, it's something you have to practice with. I like my Glocks and my P30 a lot, but my P30 is V3 SA/DA, it isn't a LEM.

Here is an explanation of the HK LEM Trigger Variant by John Rasmus, a member of the HK Shooting Team;

http://youtu.be/q3Go3bgtoj8

 

[Phaedrus/69]

They're nothing alike. I greatly prefer the LEM. But truthfully I'll pick just about anything over a Glock trigger.

 

[RustyShackelford]

LEM trigger ...

LEM means law enforcement modification. It was T&Eed by HK engineers for law enforcement use not target shooting or 3 gun match use.
HK wanted to compete with SIG Sauer's highly rated DAK(Double Action Kellerman) format. Harald Kellerman R&Ded a DAO system that was smoother & better than the tradional DA only SIG Sauer models.

I wouldn't mind either pistol but Id lean towards a SIG Sauer DAK because I like the P series pistols and features.
Id add that the P2000, P30 & HK45 LEM fits my shooting grip well & I wouldn't feel unsafe or unprepared with a Heckler & Koch LEM sidearm, .

 

[mgmorden]

How popular are the full sized P30's and VP9's in IDPA or IPSC?

I RO a lot of local maches and have RO'd 2 sectional championships. I've only seen an HK come to the line once.

The (production) field used to be 90% Glocks with a smattering of other guns like M&P's and such. These days it seems like its about 50% CZ's/Tanfoglio's, 45% Glock, and 5% "other". The SIG P320 also seems to be rapidly gaining in popularity but nobody seems much interested in HK's right now.

Basically, until recently everyone wanted striker fired (which HK didn't have), and now they seem to be switching to DA/SA but steel framed guns (which HK also doesn't have).

 

[tarosean]

These days it seems like its about 50% CZ's/Tanfoglio's, 45% Glock, and 5% "other".

Interesting... M&P's dominate my region, followed by Glocks then a handful of CZ's, of course a few other miscellaneous guns tossed in.

I've ditched my Glock for a CZ myself.

 

[george burns]

There is a guy in town, works for "lawman shooters supply" who won the state championships with a H&K p30 LEM in 45, then when the VP9 came out, he switched and won it again with that one, so I don't think it's the gun as much as who is doing the shooting.

 

[HOOfan_1]

There is a guy in town, works for "lawman shooters supply" who won the state championships with a H&K p30 LEM in 45, then when the VP9 came out, he switched and won it again with that one, so I don't think it's the gun as much as who is doing the shooting.

P30 doesn't come in 45...the HK45 looks very similar though..does not have the replaceable side panels

 

[JDR]

Back to the OP's question, I think the LEM works when it's the only trigger type you are practicing and training with. The long but light trigger pull on the first shot from the mag, then the short reset trigger pulls for subsequent shots from the mag, took me some serious getting used to, it really was just different rather than objectionable. On a Glock, every trigger pull is the same.

 

[Chuck R.]

I just converted my HK45T to a light LEM and am pretty pleased with it.

Sort of reminds me of my Walther PPQ triggers. Long(er) light take up, then the wall and a crisp break. If you're just letting off past reset for subsequent shots, its just like a SA trigger with a slightly longer reset. It's almost like a two stage trigger rifle in a way. I did not have that hard of a transition with it, again probably because it reminds me of my PPQs.

It's probably a great trigger for those that don't feel comfortable carrying a Glock or M&P type "safe action" trigger due to the long 1st shot take-up, but don't like the DA-SA trigger.

Chuck

 

[ddc]

I've not shot a glock much but have the 9mm P30L with the V1 Lite LEM trigger.

The LEM trigger is as previously described very much a two stage trigger. It is not at all like a double action revolver.

I am accurate with it in slow fire and if that was all I ever did I would love the gun. However for the past year I've tried to IDPA it and I finally gave up and picked up a 5" PPQ. A much more IDPA friendly gun.

(And I don't think the LEM is like the PPQ trigger at all except that they both make the gun go bang.)

I've only seen one other HK at our local matches. A lot of people are familiar with HK and have positive things to say but nobody cares to use them for competition.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

The LEM does take some getting used to. The V1 feels like a 2-stage trigger. However the V2 LEM does feel a lot like a revolver. Last range trip I took just my 3" Ruger LCRx and my P2000 V2 LEM and I feel like shooting them both they reinforced each other.

The first time I ever shot an LEM gun was my .40 P30L V1 LEM. All the shots were on paper but more of a pattern than a group. Normally I shoot a VP9 or P30S with a Gray Guns trigger job so the LEM was hard to figure out at first. But at the 350 round mark or so I got it figured out.

I was surprised the the V2 LEM really wasn't much harder to shoot well than the V1, if any. My plan was to have it converted to V1 but I might either go with V4 or the TGS.

My advice is that if you're contemplating a switch from a Glock to be patient and give it some time and effort. This is a case where you might need to put half a case of ammo downrange to really know if it will work for you.

But if it does there are some great things about the LEM.

 

[HexHead]

The LEM trigger is very similar the Para's LDA trigger. I've dumped all my Glocks for HKs. Both my P30s have the V1 LEM trigger and I've already got my order in for a V1 P30sk. My HK45 wasn't available with the LEM, I may get it converted.

I find the trigger reset is far more discernible than on a Glock, and it's very accurate when I "ride the reset" when firing quickly. I like the longer initial light trigger pull, as I trained to start taking the slack out as soon as my support hand is on the gun when drawing so I just need to break the trigger when the sights are on target. My wife also shoots her V1 P30 much better than the Gen4 17 she had. The only thing she changed was the gun. She now wants Trijicon HD sights on hers.

 

[farscott]

The LEM trigger is like a very light Colt DA revolver trigger. There is a lot of travel, and the trigger breaks darn near the back of the trigger guard. The initial take up is very light, a wall (pull weight increases) is felt, and then the trigger breaks. The reset is not as crisp as the Glock reset, but it is acceptable. The Glock trigger travel is much shorter, but the break is actually a bit more weight. I have learned to really like the LEM trigger.

I also have switched to 9x19 LEM P30 pistols from the Glock, mostly due to concerns about holstering the Glock. It is just too easy to get something like a cover garment trapped in the holster, possibly causing an ND. The HK offers a hammer that you can feel move, so if something is causing the trigger to travel, it can be felt when the hammer moves. The longer trigger pull of LEM also offers an extra margin of safety compared to the Glock. I am just more comfortable with a hammer on a concealed pistol.

I have never seen a VP9 or P30 at an IDPA match other than mine.

 

[medic_guns]

Don't know about the LEM, but I love the DA/SA on my MK23. Carry it cocked and locked. Shoots so nice with hot ammo!

 

[Turkina]

there are two versions of the LEM and you have to know what you want. There is the regular LEM and the Light LEM. I prefer the Light LEM. If you add in a few Match parts you can have the Match LEM Hybrid which is fantastic. The HKPRO forums have links and how to instructions on what is needed for each. The cheapest parts are directly from HK customer service.

The Match Light LEM hybrid is the best trigger in my opinion.

 

[Winkman822]

Having owned and shot my fair share of Glocks as well as having had a DA/SA USP and currently having a P2000 V2 LEM, I can say that the two are totally different animals. The Glock is more like a SAO trigger in the sense that EVERY press of the trigger is the same from the first to the last shot. The LEM on the other hand is more like a traditional DA/SA. The first shot has a long take up, stacks and breaks nice and crisp like, the reset is moderately short and then each follow up shot while riding the reset feels the same. Where the LEM in my P2000 really differs from a traditional DA/SA is that the trigger break is consistent from first shot to last i.e. first shot breaks at about 6.5-7 lbs and every shot there after does likewise, but on the first shot you have to press the trigger through the long, smooth take up before the trigger stacks and ultimately breaks.

I don't really feel one way or the other about the LEM, I can shoot it perfectly fine when I'm running it a lot, but if I don't run that gun for a while and then take it out to the range with me, it takes me a couple of mags to reacquaint myself with how that system behaves.