Hodgdon Universal for mid-range 357 magnum loads

[IWAC]

I'm looking for a mid-range Universal load for my 357 Magnum.... about 900-1000 fps. I ONLY want recommended loads for Universal, not "I have loaded ______ (fill in the blank) powder for 97 years" or the like. My constants...357 brass, CCI, Winchester, Fiocchi Small pistol primers; again, whatever was on the shelves, cast/plated 158 gr. bullets. 4" barrel. No chronograph.
My previous experience with Universal (what I found on the shelves) has been the recommendation printed on the can; .38 Special 5.2 gr. I loaded that recommendation, and they shot well, but the cases were sooted for maybe 1/3 of their length, indicating low pressure. I am considering raising the loading to the 5.7 gr suggestion for 357, again using info printed on the can label. My manuals haven't been much help, using weird barrel lengths, etc., etc.
My reasoning for my choices: I shoot better with what kicks me least.My Grandson declined to shoot any more of my Unique 5.5gr/158 SWC loads after his first experience! Arthritis and weaker hand strength make milder loads more pleasant. Plated/Cast Boolits that don't expand reach their most effective velocities around 1,000 fps, imo...it is mostly bang and flash after that. Ymmv.
So, any recommendations?
Thank you!

 

[Soonerpesek]

@AJC1 had a thread about 357 load observations, and I thought there was a page or 2 specifically about Universal loadings,
It's 28 pgs long, tho and I didn't go back thru to research, but maybe those folks will chime in...

 

[MEHavey]

My Grandson declined to shoot any more of my Unique 5.5gr/158 SWC loads

Unfortunately you're likely chasing unobtanium if you believe Universal will solve the recoil issue,
and not require lower pressure/lower velocity/increased dirty residue.

Note also that Universal is slightly more energetic than Unique, so going from 5.5/Unique to
5.7/Universal is going the wrong direction for softer loads.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Note also that Universal is slightly more energetic than Unique, so going from 5.5/Unique to
5.7/Universal is going the wrong direction for softer loads.

Can’t really compare them grain for grain…??
As with any powders…

 

[Targa]

My notes show 4.8 grains of Universal with a 158 grain lead round flat nose bullet chronographed at 919 fps through a 4.25” Pyhton.

 

[MEHavey]

Can’t really compare them grain for grain…??

This is what QL thinks, set for 950fps:
(Universal being slightly more energetic -- weight for weight)



The usual warning:
CAUTION: The above includes load data generated by calculation in QuickLOAD software based on a particular powder lot, the assumption the primer is as mild as possible, and assumptions about component, chamber and gun geometry that may not correspond well to what you have. Such data should be approached by working up from published starting loads. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR, nor QuickLOAD's author nor its distributor assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information or information derived from it.

 

[IWAC]

This is what QL thinks, set for 950fps:
(Universal being slightly more energetic -- weight for weight)

View attachment 1192647

The usual warning:
CAUTION: The above includes load data generated by calculation in QuickLOAD software based on a particular powder lot, the assumption the primer is as mild as possible, and assumptions about component, chamber and gun geometry that may not correspond well to what you have. Such data should be approached by working up from published starting loads. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR, nor QuickLOAD's author nor its distributor assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information or information derived from it.

Thank you!

 

[Walkalong]

Universal is a tad faster than Unique and less forgiving at the top end.

No reason at all it wouldn’t work for the OP’s desired load.

 

[MEHavey]

No reason at all it wouldn’t work for the OP’s desired load.

My impression (mistaken?) was that the OP wanted a softer/milder-shooting
powder load than the 5.5gr/Unique/158g combo. (Or did I mix up the intent?

 

[AJC1]

My impression (mistaken?) was that the OP wanted a softer/milder-shooting
powder load than the 5.5gr/Unique/158g combo. (Or did I mix up the intent?

That was the intent with the addional issue of case seal. They are a counterintuitive problem.

 

[Targa]

My notes show 4.8 grains of Universal with a 158 grain lead round flat nose bullet chronographed at 919 fps through a 4.25” Pyhton.

I need to correct the above, my testing was with a 6” barrel S&W 27-2, not the Python, which makes a bit more sense of 919 fps with that 4.8 grain charge.

 

[Walkalong]

My impression (mistaken?) was that the OP wanted a softer/milder-shooting
powder load than the 5.5gr/Unique/158g combo. (Or did I mix up the intent?

He wants a cast 158 going 900-1000 fps from.44 Mag brass is how I read it, Universal should do that, although I didn’t look up the rata.

Soft? Dunno. Clean? Maybe not. He only wants to use Universal though

 

[Bill M.]

Universal works fine for me at all the Hodgdon recommended loads. Just quit worrying about the sooty cases and shoot what velocity you like to shoot. Run the tumbler until the black comes off.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

He wants a cast 158 going 900-1000 fps from.44 Mag brass is how I read it, Universal should do that, although I didn’t look up the rata.

Soft? Dunno. Clean? Maybe not. He only wants to use Universal though

357 brass.

Happens to everyone

Universal in a big case with low fill doesn’t clean up until you approach the top end, which defeats one of the OP’s stated purposes.
I would suggest using the low end of Hodgdon’s range and accept the dirty cases rather than the unpleasant recoil.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I used Universal quite a bit back in the 00’s in my mid range 357 loads.
I never found it to be dirty at mid range in magnum brass.
Meters real nice, better case fill than some (no, not as much as Unique), worked very well for the job.
Some of my loads ( magnum brass, standard spp)
158 Hdy lswc @ 1.600”, 5.0 Universal
158 Rainier PFP @ 1.585”, 5.5 Universal.
Both loads should be 900-1000, my notes say both loads were accurate, with the plated load noted as super clean.
I still have one bottle of ‘Universal Clays’.

 

[Walkalong]

357 brass.

Happens to everyone

Well dang.

 

[Walkalong]

When Universal came out, they touted it a a cleaner Unique.

 

[J-Bar]

Hodgdon's 2018 Annual Manual and Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition:



4.0 grains of Universal works dandy in my .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass, producing delightfully small groups. The fired brass feels surprisingly cool when ejected into my hand.

 

[AJC1]

Hodgdon's 2018 Annual Manual and Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition:

View attachment 1192873

4.0 grains of Universal works dandy in my .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass, producing delightfully small groups. The fired brass feels surprisingly cool when ejected into my hand.

The joys of single base.... it's the polar opposite of high nitro powders like tg and bullseye.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The joys of single base.... it's the polar opposite of high nitro powders like tg and bullseye.

Universal, Clays and International are all double base powders. According to the MSDS provided by Hodgdons.

 

[AJC1]

Universal, Clays and International are all double base powders. According to the MSDS provided by Hodgdons.

Universal I believed was single which cased me to hunt it down. Solo is out of production, making vhit the only single base pistol powder now?????
I've been mistaken plenty so

 

[PO2Hammer]

I thought they were advertised as single base.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Straight from the horses mouth

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2022-clays-family-sds.pdf