Hodgdon's CFE pistol data is too hot!

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ColoradoShooter77

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I loaded 50 rounds of 165 grain Berry's with 7.1 grain CFE Pistol. This is on the low end of the data range.

This is too hot! It felt like I was shooting a .357 and I was shooting a full size Walther PPX. :eek:

God forbid you get anywhere near the max data with this powder. It bulged the bottom of my cases too, so they are going in the garbage.

I'm going to back this down to 6.5 grains and see how that is.
 
I'm assuming from your list of guns your load is for a 40 S&W. I've never had your problem with CFE but all guns are unique.

For the 40 with 165 grain Sierra JHP the max Hodgdon shows is 6.8 grains so you may well be over max for the Berry's bullet. If you loading 40S&W.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
 
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I made a comment in your previous post regarding the Hodgdon load data. I thought the data was incorrect since the beginning load was higher than the beginning load in 357sig.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788447

Thanks for the feedback. I am definitely going to load CFE Pistol in 40s&w at some time, but will start at 6.9gr or even lower.

Please let us know how the 6.5gr load performs.

Have fun and be safe.
 
I'm not sure what the chamber support is like on the PPX....regardless, the Hodgdon data is really pushing the limit in my opinion.

It was really snappy too, this might be the last can of this powder that I buy.
 
PPX in the middle

Sure is different. From Hodgdons old reloading data website.
40 S&W Hodgdon >
Quote:
This data is intended for use in firearms with barrels that fully support the cartridge in the chamber. Use of this data in firearms that do not fully support the cartridge may result in bulged cases, ruptured cases, case-head separation or other condition that may result in damage to the firearm and/or result in injury or death of the shooter and/or bystanders.
Click to expand...
attachment.php
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/06/joe-grine/gun-review-walther-ppx/
 
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But what was your COL measurement and which Berrys 165 bullet, the regular base or the Hollow base?
 
I'd also be looking at a possible set back issue, and, or how much crimp was applied. Those two particulars right there could easily cause excessive pressures.

I run full pressure loads out of many different .40's and I've yet to experience any bulge, though plenty of velocity and recoil were produced, but as expected.

GS
 
COL was set at 1.135", but varied between 1.130 and 1.135, they aren't the most consistent bullets around. These were standard flat points.

I used a Lee factory crimp die, which is set up properly. I don't think its a set-back issue. I've loaded well over 10,000 40 S&W rounds up to now and this is the first time I've experienced excessive recoil from a listed load.

CFE is on the slower end of the burn rate spectrum for pistols, but its snappy!

Going down to 6.5 grains will probably produce a good load, which is my advice to everyone else, start there and work up.
 
Sounds like all your ducks are in a row. The 40 SW is a snappy caliber,:)

Perhaps call Hodgdon. Heck their data is usually conservative? I have not used the powder so can not say.
 
I think I will e-mail Hodgdon, because this is pretty hot in my opinion.

I've seen what early generation Glock's do to brass, this wasn't nearly that bad. I think it has fairly good chamber support.

When I shoot the 6.5 grain load, I'll report back.
 
Do you have a chrono? It'd be interesting to see what your velocities were on that load.
 
Haven't had any issues loading other calibers, pretty sure the scale is ok. The prudent thing to do is back this down some.

Feel free to run this load, you'll find out that it kicks like a mule, even in a full size pistol.
 
Agree 100%! I found the load data very hot in 45 ACP loads. My 230 gr LRN loads are the minimum charge and my 200 gr SWC's are even a full grain below minimum. I loaded some 200's at the minimum listed and when I shot them, wow, thought good gracious, these things are at least +P strength. When I first got my XDS 3.3 I shot a magazine of 185 gr Hornady Critical Defense in +P and the felt recoil was about the same.
 
Good to know Pegram, glad I'm not the only one.

I've read on other forums where guys have run CFE 223 in their .308 rifles, they're getting pressure signs just above the starting charge. There is something off about this powder.
 
I checked the chamber support on the Walther PPX, its really good. Its better than the XD, which is fully supported.

I'm glad I was shooting a very well built pistol, lol.
 
It's possible everyone is getting so used to dumed down load data when faced with load data that delivers the full potential of a cartridge it scared you. Hodgdon does their own testing and the powder and in turn the data is new. It's possible the lawyers were on vacation that week. You said it "feels" too hot, that is not a reliable test. Excessive velocity is a better judge of excessive pressure yet you didn't mention velocities or any signs of excessive pressures. You only mentioned it "felt" hot. Maybe not?
 
I'm ordering a chrono this week and I will shoot 5 rounds of this load and check it. If the velocities are in check, then that's fine. Its definitely hotter than I want to shoot, the recoil is atrocious.
 
Well if the recoil might effect your ability to shoot accurately I would switch powders. Give AA#7 or Longshot a try if you didn't already. AA#7 is a great choice in the 40 S&W.
 
I have plenty of Longshot, its what I've been using in the 40 S&W. I will be going back to it for sure.

I can shoot this load in my Hi-Point carbine, it weighs 7 lbs, so the recoil is a non-issue.
 
I just loaded up 50 rounds of 165 grain Berry's with 6.5 grains CFE Pistol. I'll have to wait until next weekend to try them out, but I think this will be a lot better, recoil wise.

The guys over at XD Forum have indicated 6.5 grains is a good load, they were getting around 1030 fps.

I'm going to give it a shot in 9mm too, 5.2 grains under a 124 grain Berry's RN. We'll see how that goes.
 
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