Hog Poison - Warfarin Failed, Now Sodium Nitrite Has Setback

[RPZ]

Does anyone so far actually beileve that poisons are a solution? Partial solution? Safe and effective? To this, uh "problem"?

Funny they are using a food additive, often added to meats etc - sodium nitrite - to kill pigs. Wonder what low doses are doing to us humans.

 

[MCgunner]

Maybe they could trap boars, sterilize 'em, and turn 'em back loose. Only trouble I see is that it's tough to trap enough to do any good.

 

[dh1633pm]

Too expensive to trap/sterilize/release to make it worth while. If you trap em, then you might as well eat them.

 

[roo_ster]

1. Open poisoning will kill lots of non-hog critters. Not in favor of that, by a long shot.

2. The idea of "training" the hogs to get at the poison to prevent other critters from getting it is a bit wonky. Once piggy is trained, piggy dies. And obviously not enough to keep other animals from getting poisoned anyways.

3. I have not yet heard of any hunter-type saying a land owner's rights ought to be violated to get after hogs. Lack of sympathy for their plight is not the same as violating land-use rights.

4. I have heard land owners squawk quite a bit about it and having seen the damage, understand.

5. Hog damage is obviously not so bad as to overcome land owner fear of other things (damage done by hunters, etc.). When folk offer to help and are rebuffed, folk are likely to be less sympathetic.

6. Not sure how to say this politely, but land owners here in Texas (and many places south of the M-D line) are a whole lot sloppier than those up north. Where I grew up, fencing was done _right_, dress-right-dress. Good and tight and sufficient to the purpose. I have been on plenty of property down here and the standard for fencing is marginal to pathetic. (The high fenced hunting ranches are the exception. Most, not all, look well-maintained.). No wonder it doesn't stop any critters from penetrating it. Install that fencing correctly (and IAW what critters you want to block), stay on top of it maintenance-wise, maybe look into a hot wire system, and 75% or more of the problem is stopped before it gets on to the property. Like a southern border wall, it is not a 100% solution, but it sure cuts down on the problem.

7. Thinking about #6, perhaps sloppy fencing practices is why Texas (and other states south of the M-D) they have such a feral hog problem in the first place: domesticated swine get free, go feral, breed, and there you are.

 

[Art Eatman]

Having built a few miles of fence... Four strands of barbed wire is plenty for cattle and horses. Sheep/goat net wire is fine for sheep and goats, but it's fairly light-weight wire.

Hog-wire fencing "sorta" works, but it's expensive--and subject to wash-under from heavy rains. Texas is noted for rains up to 30" in less than two days. Hurricanes; springtime in the hill country. (I spent eleven years in the dam/reservoir business; studying storms and floods was part of the deal. )

FWIW: Between Columbus, N.M., and El Paso, TX, the international boundary has a three-strand barbed wire fence. (I drove along the old railroad grade, back in the 1980s.)

 

[Flintknapper]

roo-ster wrote:

"Hog damage is obviously not so bad as to overcome land owner fear of other things (damage done by hunters, etc.). When folk offer to help and are rebuffed, folk are likely to be less sympathetic."


^^^^^^^ Correct! And for this to be 'properly' interpreted we must understand what it speaks to.

And what it speaks to is NOT any diminished sense of the damage hogs do or the 'problem' they pose for landowners.

What it says is: Landowners (most of them) simply understand that letting folks unknown to them come onto their land and 'hunt' hogs is potentially a MUCH greater problem when all is said and done. It's the prospect (a good bet) of getting some yah-ooo that doesn't know his butt from page 8 about hogs or hunting them that gives landowners such great pause.

 

[RPZ]

Doesn't have to be people they don't know at all. Are there not people they know locally? Families? People their friends know reasonably well from anywhere? It sounds like most of these landowners live very socially isolated lives.

*Suffer*

 

[Art Eatman]

In today's litigious society, it is not unwise for a landowner to want money to cover the cost of liability insurance. Or the cost of an accidentally-shot cow, for that matter.

 

[George P]

roo-ster wrote:

"Hog damage is obviously not so bad as to overcome land owner fear of other things (damage done by hunters, etc.). When folk offer to help and are rebuffed, folk are likely to be less sympathetic."


^^^^^^^ Correct! And for this to be 'properly' interpreted we must understand what it speaks to.

And what it speaks to is NOT any diminished sense of the damage hogs do or the 'problem' they pose for landowners.

What it says is: Landowners (most of them) simply understand that letting folks unknown to them come onto their land and 'hunt' hogs is potentially a MUCH greater problem when all is said and done. It's the prospect (a good bet) of getting some yah-ooo that doesn't know his butt from page 8 about hogs or hunting them that gives landowners such great pause.

NO one has said to just open the gates and allow anyone walking in off the street to go and hunt. But I will bet that the landowner has friends and families or folks he knows well enough to allow them to come help him solve his "problem".

 

[WestKentucky]

Seems to me that they might be better off serving them with birth control pills or pills that damage reproductive organs. Stop reproduction and time will take its toll.

 

[MCgunner]

Seems to me that they might be better off serving them with birth control pills or pills that damage reproductive organs. Stop reproduction and time will take its toll.

So long as it doesn't affect other animals.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

NO one has said to just open the gates and allow anyone walking in off the street to go and hunt. But I will bet that the landowner has friends and families or folks he knows well enough to allow them to come help him solve his "problem".

No, as I have explained, most people "helping out" are not solving any problems. They may hunt a few times when it is convenient to them and if they have initial success, will lose interest in the property after a few sterile hunts and not be vigilant about caring for the property. Dealing with hogs is an ongoing issue that requires attention even when hogs are not there. Dealing with hogs on a property is sort of like dealing with 40 year old fences on a 10,000 acre ranch that is cross-fenced throughout. It is work and it takes time.

For example, say you are hunting a bit oats or wheat field. Most farmers don't want you leaving the carcasses out in the field. They don't want you driving into their fields with your big pickup truck or your Polaris either. So now you are left with carrying or dragging out the hogs. After you drag out two or three 200 lb hogs 300 or 400 yards, all of a sudden, volunteers disappear or start claiming that they shot hogs but could not locate them...when they located them and realized that there was no way in hell they were going to drag a hog that big out of the field.

As for the farmer being isolated or having friends and family, they are not isolated, but chances are they know plenty of other folks, many of whom are farmers. All of these folks are busy with their own problems and probably also have their own hog problems.

 

[SamT1]

Hogs are here to stay. The hunting economy is too big. The state may act like they want them gone, but they can’t afford to loose them.
You’ll notice about the time helicopters were putting a giant dent in hogs they legalized outfitter hunting with them, thus making there an incentive to preserve the hogs and not eradicate them. The helicopter guys are our best defense though and they do a good job of keeping them at bay, but of course they aren’t allowed to fly the hunting properties so hogs go hide there and build back up.

At the rate we’re going with people feeding the deer they will have to turn the helicopter guys loose on them if the current drought doesn’t get a bunch of them. I could take y’all to a few places any day where we would see 100+ deer herds grazing fields.

Rich folks buy tons of stuff for hunting. Like diesel pickups, UtV’s, truck loads of corn (literally), eat at restaurants, buy fuel, stay in motels, lots of beer, tons of gear. I’d be real curious about what the economic impact of hunting is. I’d bet Texas may be broke without it or at least my taxes would be a lot higher.

 

[Art Eatman]

For many ranchers, hunting fees pay the school taxes. Always remember that the tax man doesn't care about the profitability of a ranch operation.

 

[SamT1]

For many ranchers, hunting fees pay the school taxes. Always remember that the tax man doesn't care about the profitability of a ranch operation.

Yea And it’s a problem caused by hunting! Literally the people who gripe about having to pay to hunt drove the price up by being screwed over paying too much for property. People from far off pay 2-3X the property value enough times and all the sudden that cattle pasture that literally rents to a cowboy for $10 an acre has an appraised value jump from $300 to $1200 over a 10 year span. Now land owners need more money from the cowboys, as well as that hunting lease payment. The cattle business is very separatic. A guy may afford $20 some years and others just the fence maintenance is too much.

 

[RPZ]

Naaah, send them to Planned Pare

No, as I have explained, most people "helping out" are not solving any problems. They may hunt a few times when it is convenient to them and if they have initial success, will lose interest in the property after a few sterile hunts and not be vigilant about caring for the property. Dealing with hogs is an ongoing issue that requires attention even when hogs are not there. Dealing with hogs on a property is sort of like dealing with 40 year old fences on a 10,000 acre ranch that is cross-fenced throughout. It is work and it takes time.

For example, say you are hunting a bit oats or wheat field. Most farmers don't want you leaving the carcasses out in the field. They don't want you driving into their fields with your big pickup truck or your Polaris either. So now you are left with carrying or dragging out the hogs. After you drag out two or three 200 lb hogs 300 or 400 yards, all of a sudden, volunteers disappear or start claiming that they shot hogs but could not locate them...when they located them and realized that there was no way in hell they were going to drag a hog that big out of the field.

As for the farmer being isolated or having friends and family, they are not isolated, but chances are they know plenty of other folks, many of whom are farmers. All of these folks are busy with their own problems and probably also have their own hog problems.

There are people that will do it for little dead piggies (the big ones can be left for the coyotes, buzzard etc). I do know some people that do this, and kill a lot of piggies - regularly - for a landowner. I'd chip in too, except this place is a long, long way from where I live.

I don't know anyone that pays anyone to help anyone with "their problem".

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Really, there aren't very many people who will actually work to solve the issue. They don't have the time or inclination. The number is miniscule compared to the number of people who complain about not getting to hunt for free. They are out there, no doubt, but they are few.

 

[Art Eatman]

Back in the 1960s a group of us leased a ranch for hunting, about 20 miles north of Uvalde, Texas. The deal was that we paid the school taxes. It worked out to 57 cents per acre for the 7,000 acres. All well and good on this fourth-generation ranch until three rich guys from Houston offered $3 per acre.

 

[Doc7]

Steven Rinella and hog control government employees did an excellent podcast on this several weeks ago.

Legalized hunting of hogs IS the problem. People will continue to transport hogs to hog free areas in order to later hunt said hogs as long as it is legal. Open hunting season on hogs is the worst thing we could do about this problem.

Massive trapping efforts sponsored by the government is the solution.

 

[MCgunner]

Hogs are here to stay. The hunting economy is too big. The state may act like they want them gone, but they can’t afford to loose them.
You’ll notice about the time helicopters were putting a giant dent in hogs they legalized outfitter hunting with them, thus making there an incentive to preserve the hogs and not eradicate them. The helicopter guys are our best defense though and they do a good job of keeping them at bay, but of course they aren’t allowed to fly the hunting properties so hogs go hide there and build back up.

At the rate we’re going with people feeding the deer they will have to turn the helicopter guys loose on them if the current drought doesn’t get a bunch of them. I could take y’all to a few places any day where we would see 100+ deer herds grazing fields.

Rich folks buy tons of stuff for hunting. Like diesel pickups, UtV’s, truck loads of corn (literally), eat at restaurants, buy fuel, stay in motels, lots of beer, tons of gear. I’d be real curious about what the economic impact of hunting is. I’d bet Texas may be broke without it or at least my taxes would be a lot higher.

There are lots of smaller properties east of I35 like where I live that are ate up with pigs, but you can't hunt 'em when they're roaming 10-50 acre tracts which total lots of land, but individually are small. Helicopter hunting is not possible on these properties. It only works on large ranches.

Personally, I've got no desire to hang out of a friggin' helicopter, stand on the skid, and shoot at pigs. I know you wear a safety harness, but it ain't for me!

 

[MCgunner]

Steven Rinella and hog control government employees did an excellent podcast on this several weeks ago.

Legalized hunting of hogs IS the problem. People will continue to transport hogs to hog free areas in order to later hunt said hogs as long as it is legal. Open hunting season on hogs is the worst thing we could do about this problem.

Massive trapping efforts sponsored by the government is the solution.

Sorry, but no, government is NEVER the answer to ANYthing.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

People will continue to transport hogs to hog free areas in order to later hunt said hogs as long as it is legal.

Since this thread is about hog control efforts in Texas, I'm sure there's a reason why there seems to be no mention that in Texas, it is illegal to transport feral sows for any other purpose than slaughter.

Open hunting season on hogs is the worst thing we could do about this problem.

Massive trapping efforts sponsored by the government is the solution.

lol. Oh, okay. Yeah, the solution is clearly to stop allowing us to shoot them whenever we see them, and to force us to let the government on our land to set traps.

Thanks for that laugh.

You sir have been hoodwinked.

 

[SamT1]

Since this thread is about hog control efforts in Texas, I'm sure there's a reason why there seems to be no mention that in Texas, it is illegal to transport feral sows for any other purpose than slaughter.
.

Yup even trappers aren’t allowed to store up pigs. I haven’t been trapping the last couple years, but it was something like 3 days is all you could hold them.

I’m not certain about it, but I believe the high fence guys can buy them too for hunting. I was told this fall a guy was offering good money for big ones. Trappers would be the wrong crowd for finding trophy’s. The hog dog boys are better at that. Anytime the price hits .40 plus weight class bonuses it kinda makes me excited to go prop some gates open.

 

[SamT1]

There are lots of smaller properties east of I35 like where I live that are ate up with pigs, but you can't hunt 'em when they're roaming 10-50 acre tracts which total lots of land, but individually are small. Helicopter hunting is not possible on these properties. It only works on large ranches.

Personally, I've got no desire to hang out of a friggin' helicopter, stand on the skid, and shoot at pigs. I know you wear a safety harness, but it ain't for me!

Have you seen the big leg snares for hogs? I think it’s a bear trap that is modified. Basically the bear trap has a bar on it to hold a snare cable. When the hog trips it, it throws the snare way up high over his “knee”. You just need the snare tied to something really good and not your fence, a big one will ruin your fence. Put them in a trail and see what happens. Usually if you disrupt their trail they will find a new way. You can dang near banish them from your property if you put enough pressure on them.

You’ll have to shoot it to get it off the snare or have someone with dogs catch it. It won’t be good to eat though.

You can also train them to a deer feeder on a timer. Make a horse shoe around it out of hog panels, tighten the exit after they are used to it.

I had an idea when I was in college to add a swinging door to the horse shoe (like a 12’ or so one) and prop it on a fairly large pipe. Then lay wait and shoot the pipe out of the door when it’s full. Load them up and count the cash! Never got around to it. But I need to. Kinda like a poor mans version of those automatic traps.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I'm from the Government, and I am here to help.........

Have a blessed day,

Leon