Home Defense Carbine for my Wife: Ruger PC-9 versus Beretta CX-4 Storm versus AR-15

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Anthony

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
572
Hello Everyone,

I have been shopping for a home defense long gun for my wife that she can use when barricaded behind a locked bedroom door. This long gun will be in addition to a Browning Hi-Power she keeps at her bedside. Originally I had wanted to equip her with one of my short AR-15s loaded with 40-grain hollowpoints, but I am unsure if the backstop(s) that would be behind a BG kicking down the master bedroom door would be sufficient to stop such a round. Essentially another bedroom door AND the outer wall of the house or a window depending on the angle.

Due to the firing angles available in our home, my wife's petite build, and the fact we live in a cul-de-sac I am leaning heavily toward carbines in 9mm Parabellum like the Ruger PC-9 and the Beretta CX-4 Storm.

Does anyone have any experience with either of the firearms?

What are the pros and cons of each in your experience?

Do you feel such backstops would be sufficient to catch a rouge 40-grain .223 hollowpoint.

Thanks for your input.
 
I would think your background would stop the 223 in such a light weight from exiting without at least some fragmenting. Though no one could guarantee such a thing. A 223 indoors will be terribly loud.

I have a PC9. Have only looked at the Beretta. I don't know of any issues with the PC9. Pretty short and handy. No recoil to speak of and quieter than a pistol in that longer barrel. Seems heavily made. A bit tough to clean. Mine works reliably with any ammo I have put through it including a few different kinds of hollowpoints. My preference is for 147 gr. ammo.

Trigger is stiff, but shouldn't be too hard for her. Bolt handle is no problem to work. Magazines go in easily enough. It isn't really very heavy. Should work for the purpose you have in mind.

I believe a 223 would be far more effective. Also a 20 gauge shotugn might as well. Both are very loud, the 20 gauge has some considerable recoil. But if all those point you toward a carbine the PC9 should do well enough.
 
The kel-tec SU-16 looks like a decent carbine, (it's .223) the C variant has a true folding stock, the others cannot be fired while folded, and new it costs the same as a used AR. It uses the AR action and accepts AR mags.
 
I am not a fan of .223 for inside use. Even when shot outside, .223s are LOUD. It'll be much worse, possibly disorienting, if shot inside without hearing protection.

A 9mm carbine won't provide the terminal ballistics of a .223 but the noise and muzzleblast will be a heckuva lot less. I'd favor the Ruger PC-9 or a Marlin Camp 9. Both are well made and take commonly available magazines.

If you want a bit more power then Ruger makes the PC-4 in .40 or you may be able to find a Marlin Camp .45.

I got the chance to shoot a CX-4 Storm a couple of weeks ago and it left me really underwhelmed. It didn't feel all that substantial and the trigger was absolutely atrocious.
 
Do take a look at the site pbhome71 linked to. You'll see that they discovered that pistol ammo actually penetrated more in common building materials than .223 It makes sense if you consider the (relatively) massive and stable pistol rounds compared to the high-speed, center of gravity to the rear .223
 
I'd let her shoot all three and go with the one she has the most confidence in and can use most effectively.

Any shot that misses in either 9mm or 40gr .223 is going to penetrate at least to the exterior wall of your house based on the backstop you described. If she hits the target, .223 is less likely to overpenetrate and is much superior in terminal effectiveness.

.223 will have a lot of blast and flash indoors. This can be a good thing (household intruder suddenly finds deafening blast and fire shooting out of the muzzle of evil black rifle at short range and remembers he has other pressing business elsewhere) or a bad thing (disorienting to user) depending on the circumstances and level of training.

I'd also rethink whether you want to use a 40gr HP if you go the .223 route. You don't gain much safety (it will still likely penetrate to exterior wall) but you do significantly reduce the amount it will penetrate in ballistic gel (only 5.75" in some rounds - less than half the minimum amount of penetration the FBI requires in its ammo).

Take a look at the thread pbhome71 referenced and this thread showing .223 ballistics through various barriers for a reference:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146306&highlight=ballistic+gel
 
Get her a carbine in .45 ACP.

Everyone knows that the .223 requires multiple hits to COM to be effective, but the .45 ACP will knock anyone down in one shot. :rolleyes:

j/k

But seriously, a 9mm or .45 would be better for indoors, unless you want to spring for a suppressor for one of your ARs.
 
A 9mm carbine seems best. But why go with the more expensive rugers or berettas when there are Hipoints in the world? They're supposed to have a .45 one out soon.
 
kel tec makes the .223 flavor mentioned already, also makes .9mm's using glock mags and I think s/w ones too, so replacement or stocking up on them wouldn't be difficult, a long 30+ rounder glock stick and your set :D FWIW the 9mm carbine of some sort would be my personal choice, IMHO of course
 
I have one of the Keltec Sub2000's in 9mm. They are also fine carbines. However, some women have trouble with the charging handle. Seems stiff though not terrible to me. And coating the handle with a rubber coating made it a lot better. But still, some women find it too stiff to operate comfortably.
 
Everyone knows that the .223 requires multiple hits to COM to be effective, but the .45 ACP will knock anyone down in one shot.
Click to expand...

Knock you down in one shot?? Please, it'll tear you out of your shoes and throw you through the nearest wall.:cool:
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the good old M1 carbine in .30 carbine. Light, handy, reliable, good punch at close range.

Auto Ordinance is making new ones.
 
The Keltec Sub2000 is a good carbine. But the bolt charging handle or knob is hard to work. Coating it with rubber helps. It is stiff, but not that bad to me. But some women have trouble working it. It is a bit in an awkward position, and rather stiff.
 
I have several of the guns mentioned, a Keltec Sub2000 with the glock17 magwell,Keltec SU16A, and an AR in .50 Beowulf and an upper in 6x45 just for giggles. I really like the .50, but it is loud, what, did you say something. With 400 grains at 1900 FPS this may be the ultimate in home defense, think I'll only use it outside though.

Of those mentioned I really like the Sub 2000 in 9mm, out to 50 yards even my tired old eyes can hold 2-2.5" groups, I added the short rail under the forearm with a flashlight. I keep four 33 round G18 mags with it so have enough firepower to fight my way to the gun safe for the big stuff. It's currently loaded with Fed. 124 gr. hydroshocks, but when I change out the mags I may try some of the TAP ammo to see how much it reduces muzzle flash.

Of those mentioned "she who must be obeyed" prefers the Su16, although I wish they had the C or CA model when I bought my "A". I normally practice with 55 gr. HP loads but it shoots the 40 grain loads pretty well also. Again I'm going to try the TAP loads and see how they perform. "She..." does not like regular AR's, thinks they are too heavy, most that she has tried were really rigged up and weighed 8-9 pounds. Haven't tried her with a Carbon 15 though, that might also work.
 
+1 for a M1 Carbine. It's easy to rack and shoot, light recoiling, accurate and 15 and 30 round mags are commonly available. And she can mount a bayonet for that intimidation factor... ;)

Tex
 
+2 for the carbine. They are pretty common to come by and can be loaded with something with hot JHPs to easy stopping power concerns. I believe that Ultimak also makes a scout mount for them if you were inclined to put a reflex sight on it. Both my sisters and stepmother always used to do well them, too.

If it's not your fancy and you're on a budget, I can attest for the quality of the high point 9mm carbine. Mine has been accurate and dead reliable, as well as hideous (;) ). Capacity limitations are frustrating, however.

As others have said, I'd be careful when considering the AR, as it's more than a little loud indoors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Dave Markowitz
  • Locked
Beretta CX-4 Storm
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
snapshot762
S
dh1633pm
  • Locked
Home Defense
2 3
Replies
50
Views
3K
JTHunter
JTHunter
S
  • Locked
Well this ended well...
Replies
18
Views
1K
TMM
T
L
  • Locked
Review of KR Training "Defensive Long Gun Class" near Austin, Texas
Replies
8
Views
2K
THE DARK KNIGHT
T
I
  • Locked
My break-in story
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Isildur
I
Back
Top