home defense in Australia

[bukijin]

Unfortunately we lost our pumpaction shotguns a few years ago. Yes - it's a shame - and it would be nice if the situation were different, but I hope to elicit some meaningful responses given the present reality here. I've been thinking about longarms for home defense (only) in a suburban environment. What is preferable ? A lever action .410 shotgun, a double barrelled 12 g shotgun or a lever action pistol calibre rifle (ie.357) ? Any other ideas ?

Self-defense is not a reason to own a firearm here, but it is lawful to defend yourself with a legal firearm (used for hunting or target shooting) if the circumstances warrant it. You guys in the States can treat this as thought experiment ! Thanks for your ideas.

 

[Preacherman]

If you look at the energy figures for a .410, I'd suggest they are so laughably small (even in comparison to many handguns) that this caliber is not to be seriously considered for self-defence except with slugs, and even then only as a last resort.

The 12ga. double is very potent, and can be reloaded quickly with practice. Good choice in the absence of something with more magazine capacity.

The .357 Magnum out of a lever-action carbine takes on a whole new dimension - very powerful indeed against human targets. I'd take this as my first choice, stoked with Winchester 145gr. Silvertip hollowpoints. These get up to about 1,600 - 1,700 fps out of an 18" barrel, and perform explosively at the other end. (The lighter 125gr. hollowpoints, so good out of revolvers, actually end up travelling too fast out of a carbine, and the bullet construction can't handle the impact - I've seen some "blow-ups" on the surface, with very little penetration).

YMMV...

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Dave will probably chime in in a minute, but according to the database he used to have access to, shotguns, regardless of caliber or gauge were running near 99% one shot stops.

If you live in a urban or suburban neighborhood, you should consider jsing the shotguns. If the 410 handles better for you indoors, take it, and a mag tube of buckshot, and fear not, for you are well armed.

 

[Kobun]

bukijin, what is the shortest legal barrel length on rifles and shotguns?

I think I would have preffered a S/S 12 gauge shotgun with ejectors, with the shortest legal barrel, and with extra shells on a buttcuff.
If the barrels you find are longer than required, have it cut down and mount a big bead on the front.

Load with atleast #1 buck.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Yes a short barreled double 12 ga. would be the best choice. With practice you can hold two spare shells between your fingers. Not that most people would keep coming your way after unlimbering two charges of shot their direction.

 

[PJR]

As Dave McCracken has pointed out many times the software is more important than the hardware. In this type of situation more important than the firepower is having a workable plan that make sense.

Having considered the issue at some length, my objective is to take a secure position where everyone is safe and like the settlers in the old west hold off the bad guy until the cavalry (read police) arrive. Therefore a working cell phone is at my bedside, charged and preprogrammed to call the police in the even the landlines are cut.

House clearing is for professionals, not a bleary eyed homeowner wandering around on his own. If there is a bump in the night I'm not going anywhere until I determine what the threat is. I will take a secure position and call for help if need be.

In this situation a double gun with ejectors and spare shells in a butt cuff will keep me more than comfortable. I've practiced enough to know I can get rounds off very quickly and if I feel the absolute need more firepower I'd consider a second gun that my wife would use. This is my way of angling for a matched pair of double guns.

Paul

 

[Dave McCracken]

The users HAVE to be considered here.

Are all adults with access to the weapon going to be regular shotgunners?

Are any recoil sensitive?

If all adults are shotgunners and not kick shy, then the 12 gauge is a mighty fine tool.

If so, one of the others will do well.

A 410, used at ranges where the load is contained in the wad, packs about the same moxie as the old 41 Magnum Police load, the one taken off the market because "It was killing all the brothers"...

And that lever action 357 is a fine tool for close and sudden emergencies. I might pack it with +P 38s, but that's because I still have a considerable stash of same. Practice and expertise are more crucial than choice here.

HTH...

 

[bukijin]

Thanks for the advice. Doesn't take long to get some good responses here ! Seems like there is a case to be made for any of those options. I'll think about it for a while. I understand what you say about the user(s) and having a plan. The gunsafe is in the 'stronghold' room anyway, so it would definitely be a case of bolting the door and waiting for the cavalry to arrive.
Oh -and PJR - "a matched pair of double guns" - that's the kind of thinking that a man can really appreciate

There have been a few instances of home invasions here recently. Here there is also the possibility of firearm owners being specifically targeted by criminals in search of weapons (the illegal firearm market is very lucrative apparently).
I don't know about the likelihood - but of course it's neccessary to consider that scenario.

 

[dave3006]

If you can own a lever action rifle in .44 cal or .357, you are as armed as you could possibly dream. Of course, it would be way better to have a tricked out AR15 or AK. However, if you train with a good lever action, you will be one formidable opponent. Treat it like a shotgun and top it off as you go.

It is almost 90% software. Can you play paintball there? If you can, do it. It will teach you the importance of cover and give you a situation where people are trying to kill you in a CQB environment.

Dave

 

[foghornl]

Don't know the barrel-length short limit in Austalia; here in "The States" the minimum is 18", (approx 45.72 centimeters in Metric).

As I understand it, the measurement is from the closed bolt/breech face to the muzzle end.

If I was legally limited to only a shotgun, I would pick the short-barrel side-by-side 12Ga "Coach Gun". Lots of ammo choices, and about as simple a "manual-of-arms" as there is...break open, drop in 2 rounds, close, pull back hammers **, fire. Repeat as needed.



**Applies to external "dog-ear" hammer model Coach Gun Models only.

Best wishes, keep up the vigilance, and stay safe. You guys "down under" certainly have a bad way to go.

 

[Badger Arms]

Despite the fact that you posted in the Shotgun section, I'll chime in that you should really choose a lever action. There are a few reasons and I'll cite them. Foremost is the deterrant factor. If somebody were to enter your house with unlawful intent, you would want to immediately identify your intent to them. A break-action shotgun is big and intimidating, but it makes little to no recognizable noise when you pick it up and make it ready for action. Home invaders are already in a heightened state of alertness, so when you add to that the unmistakable sound of a lever-action cranking a live round into a chamber, you've probably just solved your problem without firing a shot.

This is where the Pump-Action shotgun comes into its own. The sound from a pump-gun is unmistakeable and authoritative. The same is true of a lever-action rifle. While 357 Magnum is a fine choice, I'd suggest something with a little more punch like a 44 Magnum, 30/30, or perhaps 35 Remington. These rounds are more sure of stopping a Bad Guy and not markedly more difficult to shoot. Whatever gun and caliber you go with, select a bullet style that's appropriated. Make sure it's a lightweight hollow-point expanding type. Better yet, a few companies make prefragmented ammo like BeeSafe and Glaser which are less likely to penetrate through and kill the neighbor's wife while she sleeps.

If you do choose a shotgun, 410 would be just fine. Don't make the mistake of thinking yo don't have to aim a shotgun. In a home, your shot column will likley be less than an inch or two wide at distances you'll be firing at. Aim center-of mass with the intent of stopping the BG from causing you grievous bodily harm or death. Many companies make 3-pellet buckshot loads for the 410.

Winchester Buckshot Load