Gunmeister
Member
Can someone please recommend a home defense load for an 18" barrel 12 gauge? Thanks, JW
Home Defense Load For 12 Gauge
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P. Plainsman
Member
I'm a shotgun novice.
I have found the Rem Managed Recoil 2 3/4" 00 Buck (8 pellet) round to be easy shooting in my 870.
However, for home D I'm thinking about going back to the Federal Premium 2 3/4" load in 4 Buck -- thirty-odd pellets. Lot better coverage, and a wider shot pattern. And a #4 Buck shot is about .24 / .25 caliber -- even just six or seven of those on target would be pretty serious medicine.
It is not an easy shooting round, though.
I have found the Rem Managed Recoil 2 3/4" 00 Buck (8 pellet) round to be easy shooting in my 870.
However, for home D I'm thinking about going back to the Federal Premium 2 3/4" load in 4 Buck -- thirty-odd pellets. Lot better coverage, and a wider shot pattern. And a #4 Buck shot is about .24 / .25 caliber -- even just six or seven of those on target would be pretty serious medicine.
It is not an easy shooting round, though.
12-34hom
Member
Federal #1 buckshot - 2 3/4 inch.
12-34hom.
12-34hom.
silverlance
Member
hm
i believe it practicing heavily with what i intend to whack somebody with, so i bought recently 250rnds of L33 00 buck federal 8pellet from ammoman for 150 or so. i want to be damn sure and fully prepared for what happens when i pull the trigger, and i won't be if i buy special rounds that i can only afford to fire a few of every other month...
although if the price had been more reasonable i would have liked the 27 pellet variety..
i believe it practicing heavily with what i intend to whack somebody with, so i bought recently 250rnds of L33 00 buck federal 8pellet from ammoman for 150 or so. i want to be damn sure and fully prepared for what happens when i pull the trigger, and i won't be if i buy special rounds that i can only afford to fire a few of every other month...
although if the price had been more reasonable i would have liked the 27 pellet variety..
Most professionals recommend 00 buck in reduced recoil LE versions like Federal Tactical or Winchester Ranger, Rem. reduced recoil, etc. Check out Ammoman.com.
Be advised that the new Fed. LE 132-00 has the FliteControl wad that tightens patterns considerably---like 7 to 9" at 25yds! The Fed. 133-00 8 pellet load would be good for HD. Remember that at close range fighting distances, no buckshot load has time to spread into a pattern. Be precise, as if shooting a slug (also very effective).
All of the reduced recoil LE ammo produces tighter patterns with far less recoil than over the counter buckshot loads, which are high vel. and recoil. Street results show that low vel/recoil LE ammo gives up nothing in stopping power. Excellent stuff.
If you go to a #4 buck load, be advised that you are cutting down on penetration and increasing innocent bystander safety while decreasing stopping power as well. Decisions, decisions. Stay away from birdshot, since once the mass of shot actually becomes a pattern, the individual shot have no penetration and are easily defeated by heavy clothing, or living room furniture. Even #4 buck suffers, to some degree, from the same disadvantages.
000 buck has excellent penetration and 8 pellets are standard. However, the penetration may be excessive and 000 doesn't pattern as well ad 00 buck. Taking on a bear at close range, it would be my choice (just behind slugs). I think LE has the right idea with 00 buck, and wish we had more street data on #1 buck, as well as a LE version.
Be advised that the new Fed. LE 132-00 has the FliteControl wad that tightens patterns considerably---like 7 to 9" at 25yds! The Fed. 133-00 8 pellet load would be good for HD. Remember that at close range fighting distances, no buckshot load has time to spread into a pattern. Be precise, as if shooting a slug (also very effective).
All of the reduced recoil LE ammo produces tighter patterns with far less recoil than over the counter buckshot loads, which are high vel. and recoil. Street results show that low vel/recoil LE ammo gives up nothing in stopping power. Excellent stuff.
If you go to a #4 buck load, be advised that you are cutting down on penetration and increasing innocent bystander safety while decreasing stopping power as well. Decisions, decisions. Stay away from birdshot, since once the mass of shot actually becomes a pattern, the individual shot have no penetration and are easily defeated by heavy clothing, or living room furniture. Even #4 buck suffers, to some degree, from the same disadvantages.
000 buck has excellent penetration and 8 pellets are standard. However, the penetration may be excessive and 000 doesn't pattern as well ad 00 buck. Taking on a bear at close range, it would be my choice (just behind slugs). I think LE has the right idea with 00 buck, and wish we had more street data on #1 buck, as well as a LE version.
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12 ga, 2 3/4 inch, standard velocity, run-of-the-mill #1 buck. Since they're not special, hi-performance, guaranteed to knock the b*stard off his feet at 40 yards, low-recoil, LEO-only Tactical Loads they only cost about $3 for 5 rounds.
12 ga recoil is over-rated. Take the gun out and shoot it until you get used to it. My Enfield backs up harder than my Ithaca pump.
12 ga recoil is over-rated. Take the gun out and shoot it until you get used to it. My Enfield backs up harder than my Ithaca pump.
mfeiertag
Member
#1 buck
I excerpted the following from an article that can be read at this link http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.
I excerpted the following from an article that can be read at this link http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.
I like #1 also or #3 if a 20ga. 16, 30 cal pellets to me makes more sense than 9, 33 cal 00pellets, the old standard. As I live in a house with thin walls in a warm climate I do load shotguns with one or two rounds of birdshot to fire first. As my opponent will be wearing light clothes most likely and at the short ranges involved I doubt the birdshot would be much of a handicap and at least in theory I am at less risk of endangering the neighbors.
At close range fighting distances, the low recoil tactical load is better for fast follow-up shots. When it comes to liability with re: to innocent bystanders, the #1 buck loads have 15 potentially lethal pellets and a harder to control (bigger with more recoil) pattern than LE 00 buck that produces tighter patterns.
I like the idea of #1 buck in an LE load, but 00 buck low recoil tactical works so well on the street, that LE apparently isn't interested in changing.
12 ga. standard pressure recoil may be over rated for some, but low recoil amm allows for faster followup shots for everyone, experts and non experts alike, and is just as effective. Maybe the larger shot size makes up for less velocity where penetration is concerned. Maybe the effectiveness has to do with the tighter patterns. Maybe a combination of both.
For those who like higher vel., more recoil and noise, and bigger patterns, then more power to you.
I like the idea of #1 buck in an LE load, but 00 buck low recoil tactical works so well on the street, that LE apparently isn't interested in changing.
12 ga. standard pressure recoil may be over rated for some, but low recoil amm allows for faster followup shots for everyone, experts and non experts alike, and is just as effective. Maybe the larger shot size makes up for less velocity where penetration is concerned. Maybe the effectiveness has to do with the tighter patterns. Maybe a combination of both.
For those who like higher vel., more recoil and noise, and bigger patterns, then more power to you.
In the minority here...
But I use S&B 3" magnum, 15 pellet 00 buck rounds(Cylinder choke in Mossy 500A)...Kills at both ends...However, since they don't use a shot cup, they tend to spread out REALLY FAST...So, with 15 pellets, at typical HD ranges (I've patterned up to 50') aiming isn't as critical...And pellets will penetrate clean through an old refrigerator (dont' ask )...
I, however, don't have to worry about overpenetration in my situation...
But I use S&B 3" magnum, 15 pellet 00 buck rounds(Cylinder choke in Mossy 500A)...Kills at both ends...However, since they don't use a shot cup, they tend to spread out REALLY FAST...So, with 15 pellets, at typical HD ranges (I've patterned up to 50') aiming isn't as critical...And pellets will penetrate clean through an old refrigerator (dont' ask
)...I, however, don't have to worry about overpenetration in my situation...
Well, ammo is one of the most controversial subjects known to man. Rifle, pistol, shotgun. The fact that low recoil tactical 00 buck works extremely well on the street will never budge the opinions of those who've never used it, but nonetheless, cling to everything from birdshot, to high recoil (including 3" mag) buck, even though it's been confirmed, by those who have been there, that fast followup shots can be the difference between winning and dying.
It's fact that, at typical fighting distances, the range is so close that you don't have a pattern anyway--no matter what load or choke you have. Do you think typical SD range tends to increase because you have a long gun?
Order a case or two of Federal Tactical LE 132-00 9 pellet load or LE133-00 8 pellet and be done with it (try Ammoman). Or get some Win. Ranger LE, or Rem. reduced recoil. Let someone else use 3" mag, the marginally effective #4 or the worse yet, birdshot for HD.
It's fact that, at typical fighting distances, the range is so close that you don't have a pattern anyway--no matter what load or choke you have. Do you think typical SD range tends to increase because you have a long gun?
Order a case or two of Federal Tactical LE 132-00 9 pellet load or LE133-00 8 pellet and be done with it (try Ammoman). Or get some Win. Ranger LE, or Rem. reduced recoil. Let someone else use 3" mag, the marginally effective #4 or the worse yet, birdshot for HD.
LeonCarr
Member
Ditto for 2 3/4" Reduced Recoil 00 Buckshot. I like the Winchester Ranger variety myself, and the Estate Cartridge SWAT load is excellent as well.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Pietro Beretta
Member
I Just got my Mossberg 500A shotgun today..... 
I picked up a pack Federal Vital-Shok 12Ga Buckshot: 3Inch Magnum 15 Pelets 00buck.
Was that a bit too much for home defense?
I picked up a pack Federal Vital-Shok 12Ga Buckshot: 3Inch Magnum 15 Pelets 00buck.
Was that a bit too much for home defense?
berettashotgun
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12ga 2 3/4" #4-5-6 for HD is the only way to go. Yard defence will get you a long stay at the crossbar motel.
Cesiumsponge
Member
2-3/4" 000 Remington 8 pellet buckshot here in my shotgun. I have no issues with recoil since I run a semi-auto with recoil buffing. I can't use reduced recoil since it won't cycle my gas piston.
I also have some Fedreral 2-3/4" rifled Vital-Shok slugs with the hydrashok hollowpoint profile but I don't think those will ever be used in a HD situation. They're hard to find too and I don't want to use them all!
I also have some Fedreral 2-3/4" rifled Vital-Shok slugs with the hydrashok hollowpoint profile but I don't think those will ever be used in a HD situation. They're hard to find too and I don't want to use them all!
Sox
Member
I haven't been into shotguns too long at all, mostly handguns. Reading over a lot of the posts though I realized just what the shotgun is for home defense. Really, it's like dumping a whole 20 or 30 round magazine in well under a fraction of a second in a much more dense pattern than a subgun could muster. Just Awesome. Since slugs penetrate deeply, I wonder if they could bring out a "tactical slug" softer with good expansion, less penetration and less recoil yet still cycle the autos. Again, not like a .12 gauge is small unto itself. -Master of the obvious.
12 guage 2 3/4 inch low or normal recoil, non-magnum, buckshot in #1, #0, or #00.
We're not talking about yard shooting although buckshot wouldn't be a bad option for that. The problem with birdshot is doesn't have enough penetration to reach vital organs. Birdshot only reliably produces nasty surface wounds and that may not be enough penetration. So, no, it's not the only way to go.
EDIT: correct birdshot info
We're not talking about yard shooting although buckshot wouldn't be a bad option for that. The problem with birdshot is doesn't have enough penetration to reach vital organs. Birdshot only reliably produces nasty surface wounds and that may not be enough penetration. So, no, it's not the only way to go.
EDIT: correct birdshot info
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only1asterisk
member
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Unless the shooting is accidental, in which case it kills "graveyard dead".
I think lead #2 or BB is about the smallest shot I'd trust to get decent penetration, and then only to about 20 feet or so.
David
Drav
Member
FED TAC 00 BKSHT LAW-ENF HE LR (9-PEL)
I just bought this over at Ammoman based on the advice in this thread. Hope it works!
I just bought this over at Ammoman based on the advice in this thread. Hope it works!
I found that the reduced recoil law enforcment 00 buck is hard to find in my area. I was able to find Remington LE RR 00 Buck (8 and 9 pellet) boxes of 25 for fifteen bucks. I wanna get some Hornady TAP, Federal Tactical, Estate SWAT, Winchester Ranger and Remington TAC8 in 5 packs to try out as well. I guess I'll have to get them on line.
Burt Blade
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Do keep in mind that most gun shops are quite willing to order a case or two of ammunition that is not normally stocked.
Mark8252
Member
12ga defense load.
Unless you have a home the size of a grade school you likely will shoot home defense no more than 7-10 yards.
Any load left over from hunting will easily drop any bad guy at that range.
No need to spend large sums of money on "special home defense loads".
Usually the ones that tell you that you need them also sell them.
Unless you have a home the size of a grade school you likely will shoot home defense no more than 7-10 yards.
Any load left over from hunting will easily drop any bad guy at that range.
No need to spend large sums of money on "special home defense loads".
Usually the ones that tell you that you need them also sell them.
Mark8252, this link is for you: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
nickthecanuck
Member
All you #1 buck fans,
#1 theoretically offers the best terminal ballistics with adequate penetration and tremendous frontal surface area. It would be the best if somebody made a load with hardened shot.
It is my understanding that nobody makes a properly hardened #1 buck load, increased pellet deformation leads to less penetration.
Most of the IWBA dudes over on tacticalforums are recommending reduced recoil 00 buck until somebody starts making a good #1 buck load.
#1 theoretically offers the best terminal ballistics with adequate penetration and tremendous frontal surface area. It would be the best if somebody made a load with hardened shot.
It is my understanding that nobody makes a properly hardened #1 buck load, increased pellet deformation leads to less penetration.
Most of the IWBA dudes over on tacticalforums are recommending reduced recoil 00 buck until somebody starts making a good #1 buck load.
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