Wesson Smith
Member
Well, I guess we've just heard several arguments implying that all resistance is futile? Guess I'd better go on Monday and see what I can get for my long guns. Guess I don't need 'em anymore.
First, given that sometimes we have to arrest heavily armed criminals, and sometimes it really does have to be in their homes, I do believe that the "shock and awe" type of police raid is sometimes the best option. Not always, but sometimes.
AmenHell of a way to live, too.
Chief answeredAnd while I would never discourage anyone from defending their family, what is the likelihood that even if you get a shot off at the first guy through the door, the next half dozen or so aren't going to fill you so full of lead that your autopsy will be a hazardous waste cleanup? Please understand, I am in no way condoning the erroneous raids mentioned throughout this thread, just interjecting what I think are some valid points/questions.
Most folks have never been on the receiving end of violence of action or force of action, particularly by a trained, disciplined, and motivated team. If you are REALLY REALLY GOOD, you might take one of them out, before you are put down.
If you are in fact armed with most likely a side arm, you are now being overrun by several fellows in body armor rifles/shotguns, bright lights in your face, the flashbang that just went off, and whole lot of folks hollering at you. Now if you should lift your weapon, and possibly hit any of your attackers, Sarge said it very well about a "toxic autopsy", and I would like to advise that all those AR rifles firing directly at you in a room at distances of 3 to 12 feet, well you world will be rocked. Your hearing is gone, no night vision, you are confused and "where did all those holes in my chest come from?"
Frankly if a trained team hits you, you are basically screwed. Doesn't much matter if they are good guys making a mistake, or bad guys there to steal or take care of you, or both. You are screwed. The good news is that very few bad guys are trained and organized as a strike team and properly equipped.
Well, I guess we've just heard several arguments implying that all resistance is futile? Guess I'd better go on Monday and see what I can get for my long guns. Guess I don't need 'em anymore.
If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. --Sir Winston Churchill
“Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. It means a strong desire to live taking the form of readiness to die.” --Gilbert Keith Chesterton
“Never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” --Winston Churchill
"If you're going through hell, keep going." --Winston Churchill
"Victory at all cost. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory no matter how long and how hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival" --Winston Churchill
And to quote my old Gunny: “You only lose when you quit, to not lose is simple. Never quit.”
They should, but the only way it will happen is if you get some legislation to make it happen. You need some kind of independent investigation and prosecution to make for a fair system That is virtually unheard of in this country.If I accidently kill/maim/injure someone I will be held accountable and rightly so. When the cops do it they get a pass and possibly a medal/promotion. Why aren’t they held to the same standards as everyone else?
I think they do in most departments. Good departments tend to have pretty decent solf policing. The good ones really can't do much about the bad departments.Most cops are good folks. Yet, they tolerate the bad ones and allow them to besmirch the entire profession even to the point of allowing themselves to be tarred with the same brush. Why don’t they carry out their own trash?
You can tell a "good" department from a "bad" one.I think they do in most departments. Good departments tend to have pretty decent solf policing. The good ones really can't do much about the bad departments.
In fairness, even in the bad agencies, there are good cops. But the situation is such that it is not realistic to expect that the good ones will do anything, or even can do anything, about the bad ones. In the end, it is usually really a political problem, with extremely corrupt politicians running things. Its not surprising that the police department is not well run in such a circumstance.In a bad one, you see a seemingly endless parade of "isolated incidents". Cop after cop after cop gets caught doing the same things over and over and over. Nobody ever gets punished unless they're caught on video, and only grudgingly then.
FourNineFoxtrot said:So come on, fellas. Be pros. If you come knocking with your boot toe, do it right. My only barometer for "police or not police" is whether you can take me down before I can get some of us killed, and I can't pull any punches because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.
You're talkin' about Chief and Sarge, Right?Internet heroes
Man you tough guys slay me.You remind me of all the bad guys who swear nobody will take them alive and then they get arrested without incident.lol
I think too many people here are playing too much Playstation.
Man you tough guys slay me.You remind me of all the bad guys who swear nobody will take them alive and then they get arrested without incident.lol
I think too many people here are playing too much Playstation.
Most folks have never been on the receiving end of violence of action or force of action, particularly by a trained, disciplined, and motivated team. If you are REALLY REALLY GOOD, you might take one of them out, before you are put down.
If you are in fact armed with most likely a side arm, you are now being overrun by several fellows in body armor rifles/shotguns, bright lights in your face, the flashbang that just went off, and whole lot of folks hollering at you. Now if you should lift your weapon, and possibly hit any of your attackers, Sarge said it very well about a "toxic autopsy", and I would like to advise that all those AR rifles firing directly at you in a room at distances of 3 to 12 feet, well you world will be rocked. Your hearing is gone, no night vision, you are confused and "where did all those holes in my chest come from?"
Well, according to sargespd and chieftan, we just have to roll over to bad guys even though there is almost zero chance of the police getting the address wrong. To defend ourselves and our families warrants our being killed. No wonder police departments feel no need to investigate before the armed assault. They're always right. We're always wrong. And if they're wrong, we're still wrong and we deserve to die.
Internet heroes
Man you tough guys slay me.You remind me of all the bad guys who swear nobody will take them alive and then they get arrested without incident.lol
I think too many people here are playing too much Playstation.
You're right. I suggest disassembling all of your guns, installing trigger locks, and locking them all in a safe. When bad guys do come into your home wearing black and yelling "Police!", just ask them to wait at the door while you obtain, remove the locks from, assemble, and load your weapon.
Perhaps a move to the District of Columbia is in your future.
Thanks for clearing that up. Bottom line is; cops bust down the wrong door and you're there with a gun in your hand, they'll do their damnedest to murder you.
Anyone get the feeling the cops enjoy this "shock and awe" crap a little too much? Like 13 year old kids overdosed on Tom Clancey. "Strike teams", what the hell is that? They're cops not the frickin' delta force. People who want to be ninja commandos should wheel themselves down to the local recruiter.
Sooner or later the cops are going to get into a situation where they're outgunned, then you'll see a change