Homeland Security loses nearly 200 guns

[searcher451]

From this morning's front page of USA TODAY:

Homeland Security reports lost guns
Some ended up with criminals

By Thomas Frank
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — The nation’s Homeland Security officers lost nearly 200 guns in bowling alleys, public restrooms, unlocked cars and other unsecure areas, with some ending up in the hands of felons. The problem, outlined in a new federal report, has prompted disciplinary actions and extra training.
Most of the misplaced weapons — including handguns, shotguns and military rifles — were never found. “Most losses occurred because officers did not properly secure firearms,” says the Homeland Security inspector general report.
At least 15 of the guns ended up in the hands of gang members, criminals, drug users and teenagers, Inspector General Richard Skinner found. His report documented 289 missing firearms from fiscal year 2006 through 2008, although not all were lost because of negligence. Some were lost in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and others were stolen from safes.
The report is the first accounting of guns lost by Homeland S ecurity’s 185,000 workers.
Homeland Security “took immediate action” to correct problems, department spokeswoman Amy Kudwa said Wednesday. Workers are getting extra training, and officials are improving tracking and inspection of guns, Kudwa said.
“The department is strongly committed to ensuring that weapons . . . are kept secure,” Kudwa said.
Although the number of guns lost is only a small fraction of Homeland Security’s 190,000 firearms, any lost weapon “is a very serious matter,” said Hubert Williams, president of the Police Foundation, a think tank on law enforcement issues. “It reflects the competence of the officer.”
The report does not say whether any of the guns were used in crimes.
Homeland Security said employees have been fired and suspended for losing guns. Guns are carried by many Customs, Border Patrol and Immigration agents.
A 2008 report found 76 guns lost by the 4,800 agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in a five-year period ending in 2007.

 

[19-3Ben]

I am da' only one perfeshinul enuf...

 

[Birdmang]

I've never lost any of mine.

 

[Quoheleth]

Some were lost in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

I can't help but chuckle at this. How many other hurricanes has the US dealt with since Homeland Security was creatred in '02, yet ONLY Katrina caused gun loss?

We've had fires and earthquakes on the west coast; debilitating snowstorms in the north and midwest; hurricanes in Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas and NONE of those were mentioned - only Katrina.

That bother anyone else?

Q

 

[cleardiddion]

DHS was created in 2002, just for the record.
Continue.

 

[Legionnaire]

I wonder on a per capita basis who "loses" more annually? Homeland Security; Armed Forces; private citizenry? One would have to distinguish between lost due to negligence versus lost through theft of an appropriately secured firearm. Like Birdmang, I've never lost any of mine ... but I know a guy who has "misplaced" a few around his farm. He showed me a .22 rifle he found after misplacing it in his barn several years ago--rusted up so badly I doubt it's reclaimable.

 

[NMGonzo]

Man ... how the heck one looses his issued sidearm?

 

[jakemccoy]

A gun is easier to lose if you didn't have to watch the money coming out of your pocket to buy it. When you buy a gun with your own money, you naturally think about how you'll use it, clean it, store it, maintain it, etc. When you have a gun issued to you, that ownership process is unnaturally forced upon you if you're not a gun person. This person is likely to be lackadaisical with everyday gun operations, eventually resulting in a lost gun.

 

[Hold My Own]

Originally Posted by jakemccoy
I figure a gun is easier to lose if you didn't have to watch the money coming out of your pocket to buy it.

Quoted for truth. Seriously. I can't imagine what I'd do if I ever lost a gun. Knock on wood.

 

[NMGonzo]

Quoted for truth. Seriously. I can't imagine what I'd do if I ever lost a gun. Knock on wood.

I had sidearms issued to me, and not having it on me, under my mattress, or in the bathroom with the door locked and between the folds of a towel was pretty unthinkable.

If I was going on vacation to the shore, the sidearm went back to the armory.

 

[The Tennessean]

A couple years ago a local FBI agent had his Crown Vic burglarized in the middle of the night. He lost a 10mm MP5 (full auto), S&W AR15 (full auto) and several 1911s. All these guns were in the trunk of the car. Ouch.

 

[Kevin77]

I lost all mine in a boating accident!! Tragic.

 

[jakemccoy]

I had sidearms issued to me, and not having it on me, under my mattress, or in the bathroom with the door locked and between the folds of a towel was pretty unthinkable.

If I was going on vacation to the shore, the sidearm went back to the armory.

You are also a gun person. I suspect most of the people who lost their issued guns were not "gun people".

 

[mack]

How odd, I had a fortune teller tell me that all mine would be lost in a tragic boating accident sometime in the future. I'm beginning to think that guns have three ememies instead of two - rust, politicians, and boats.

 

[NMGonzo]

You are also a gun person. I suspect most of the people who lost their issued guns were not "gun people".

Even in the military, at the time I was not.

But I was scared of losing my rank, career, and going to military prison!!!

 

[Frog48]

“Most losses occurred because officers did not properly secure firearms,”..... At least 15 of the guns ended up in the hands of gang members, criminals, drug users and teenagers

Hmm, criminals STOLE guns? You don't say?

 

[The Tennessean]

How many "lost" guns by law enforcement are found by decent people, turned it, and eventually make it back to the person they were issued to? We'll never know. With this knowledge it's reasonable to surmise that the actual number of lost guns is much, much greater than the reported number, since the reported number probably doesn't include recovered guns.

So, just for the sake of discussion, if 1 in 10 guns lost by an LEO were found by a criminal, that means the reported number of actual "lost" guns (ie - the bad guy kept the gun forever) only represents 10% of the true number of lost guns simply because the other 90% were recovered at some point. These numbers are just for the sake of argument though, I have no idea what the real numbers are and I doubt we'll ever know.

 

[TCB in TN]

Maybe those were the ones who were found in Mexico.

 

[Big Bill]

If they lose their firearm, they should have to pay double for it in restitution and go two weeks without pay. I bet that would eliminate this problem. Why the heck do we need a department of HLS anyway?

 

[Kimber45acp]

And the next mass shooting will conveniently involve a gun that "SHAZAMM WE CAN'T TRACE!"

 

[GMFWoodchuck]

Clowns led by clowns.

 

[Robert]

go two weeks without pay.

Or better yet, get fired for gross incompetence.

 

[Zoogster]

A gun is easier to lose if you didn't have to watch the money coming out of your pocket to buy it. When you buy a gun with your own money, you naturally think about how you'll use it, clean it, store it, maintain it, etc. When you have a gun issued to you, that ownership process is unnaturally forced upon you if you're not a gun person. This person is likely to be lackadaisical with everyday gun operations, eventually resulting in a lost gun.

That is about right.

The number is not high. They list 185,000 people. Now I don't know what percentage of them are carrying routinely and taking guns on and off where they are most likely to misplace them.
But it is a small number of losses irregardless.


They probably lost many more flashlights, batons, and other things which must be taken on and off even more frequently.


Even though they care less and think less about the gun they did not purchase they also probably take it on and off less than your typical citizens with a concealed carry permit.
Taking a gun on and off is when loss is most likely to result.
LEO can bring their firearms into "gun free zones" and most into their place of employment.
This probably compensates for the LEO statistics resulting in a lower number of losses than if they were routinely taking them on and off as often as many other citizens are legally required to.

Regular citizens must remove them before crossing magical boundaries. Where does a firearm go when removed for such a purpose? Many end up someplace in a vehicle or other convenient location, and most likely in a quick inconspicuous manner. Otherwise they would be the subject of "man/woman with a gun" calls to police.
Some citizens also tend to carry in holsters or pockets that may not be as convenient when using a public restroom in securing a firearm while sitting on a toilet (and keeping it from being seen under the stall) or during other regular activities that may require removal or adjustment of the firearm.
Each time there is a form of removal there is the potential for loss if forgotten or placed somewhere it can be stolen.
So my bet would be that while the average concealed carry holder is more careful, they have higher risk of loss and it about evens out statistically.

 

[KingEdward]

how is nearly 200

and 289 the same thing?

the article would be more correct saying nearly 300 lost.

 

[ret621]

Missing AR15 from Dayton Police; left on roof of car!

Police looking for officer’s missing rifle
By Lucas Sullivan | Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:08 AM

DAYTON - Dayton police are looking for an officer-issued rifle missing that might have fallen off the roof of an officer’s car Sunday, Feb. 14, police said.

Officers were called to the 2700 block of Wayne Avenue about 11:20 p.m. Sunday to investigate the missing rifle after the officer coming on duty at 4 p.m. noticed it was missing, the report stated.

The officer missing the gun was not named in the report and Major Mark Hess declined to release his name this morning.

“The officer recalled placing it on the roof of his cruiser as he inspected and prepared his cruiser/equipment for his tour of duty,” Hess said. “We are looking into whether he drove off with it still on the roof or if it was taken from atop the roof.”

If any wrongdoing is found, the officer will be disciplined, Hess said. (probably a letter in his file for one week) SOL GREENBERG would fry you in the chair!

The gun is described as a Rock Rivers A15 .223 caliber rifle, the report stated. It is valued at about $800, Hess said. The gun’s serial number has been entered into a nationwide crime database, Hess said.

If anyone knows the gun’s whereabouts, you are urged to call 333-COPS.