Homeowner shot confronting intruder in NH- how could this have been different?

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akarguy

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This week in NH two homeowners awoke to noises in their house during the night. The husband tucked a gun under his arm and approached the intruder (who was obviously on something) while rifling through their medicine cabinet... An altercation ensued, the intruder was also armed, and shot the homeowner! So many things wrong with this approach. The wife managed to arm herself and hold the perp for police to arrive. Very real scenario with potentially devastating outcomes for the victims. NH has Castle Doctrine. I get it, adrenaline is pumping but please chime in, how could this have been handled better?

http://www.wmur.com/article/homeown...er-armed-man-found-in-home-police-say/9985906
 
Report says he saw the bad guy's gun, and grabbed for it BEFORE getting his own? He had to go to a NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE to use a phone to call for help? An ounce of prevention...
 
The way I read it, the homeowner was not armed when he confronted the intruder. The intruder pointed a gun at the homeowner, the homeowner sandwiched the intruder's gun between his arm and chest and started hitting him with his free arm, and that's when the intruder fired. At that point the wife went into their living room and got her gun.
 
ahhhhh, the nightmare of a Peace Officer. (before you say it, I know he isn't and was not a police officer) The similarities are there. I had all of two seconds if that to decide to defend my life and you the jury have days, even months to direct my every move. Same thing here. I think we all know you do not go to a gun fight with a slingshot. enough said.
 
Here's my take on the limited info provided on this incident.... the outcome of any armed incident can be so random and unpredictable that reality can be a lot stranger than any movie script.... -at least that's some of what I learned on the street as a cop...

That's why any armed citizen should train regularly - and do their best not to get into any gun situations - unless you have no other choice....
 
AGAIN = you do NOT go "searching & CLEARING" your house ---- or any building without ALL the proper tools and TRAINING.
Looks oh so easy in the movies and on the boob tube .
NO WAY that 99% would live through a real scenario without holes in them.
IF a perp wants to harm you.
NOW,please do tell me all about how you know better = this man paid that price.
 
scaatylobo said:
AGAIN = you do NOT go "searching & CLEARING" your house ---- or any building without ALL the proper tools and TRAINING.
Looks oh so easy in the movies and on the boob tube .
NO WAY that 99% would live through a real scenario without holes in them.
IF a perp wants to harm you.
NOW,please do tell me all about how you know better = this man paid that price.
Click to expand...

Huh? What are you trying to convey? That he should have called 911 first?
 
scaatylobo said:
AGAIN = you do NOT go "searching & CLEARING" your house ---- or any building without ALL the proper tools and TRAINING.
Looks oh so easy in the movies and on the boob tube .
NO WAY that 99% would live through a real scenario without holes in them.
IF a perp wants to harm you.
NOW,please do tell me all about how you know better = this man paid that price.
Click to expand...
OK, now, deep breaths ... pleasant thoughts ... :)
 
OC-Trainer said:
Huh? What are you trying to convey? That he should have called 911 first?
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Pretty much. Barricade in a safe area, protect the entry way, call 911 and hunker down. An ambush is always better than a meeting engagement.

Properly searching a structure is best done with 1) Proper training that most civilian gun owners don't have, 2) A group of like minded and armed friends & 3) A dog. A big, bittey dog.
 
Sundancer2004 wrote:
I had all of two seconds if that to decide to defend my life and you the jury have days, even months to direct my every move.
Click to expand...

And every jury I've ever been on has been cognizant of that reality and pretty much everyone on the jury (except for the ones that seem to have a grudge against government in general) seem to me to have been more than willing to rely on the training and judgment of the LEO unless there was something in the behavior leading up to the incident suggesting that the LEO was looking for a fight.
 
ClickClickD'oh said:
Pretty much. Barricade in a safe area, protect the entry way, call 911 and hunker down. An ambush is always better than a meeting engagement.

Properly searching a structure is best done with 1) Proper training that most civilian gun owners don't have, 2) A group of like minded and armed friends & 3) A dog. A big, bittey dog.
Click to expand...

Of course, but what threw me is that he appears to be against calling for reinforcements first.

I can PROMISE you that I am NOT taking out my metrosexual connection [ cell phone ] until I am sure that my LOVED ONE is as safe as can possibly under dire circumstances.
Click to expand...

And if my wife is in harms way,I will be the first one to be THERE [ remember that the police are minutes away = when SECONDS COUNT ]
Click to expand...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/scenario-ii.821990/page-2
 
This is a gun forum, so I know the focus tends to be on weapons and tactics, but I'm starting to think that the type of firearm is one of the least important aspects of home defense.

If one doesn't wake up until after an intruder is in one's house, the intruder starts off with the advantage. While no residential dwelling can be made impenetrable, it makes sense to make a dwelling impossible to break into quickly and without making a ton of noise. I want countermeasures that give me a better chance of waking up and getting into position before the goblin is inside.

These are things I'm thinking about as my wife and I start the process of buying our first home. Things like how to fortify doors so they won't cave to a single kick (why do exterior doors always open inward?) how to install security bars on windows in way that won't make me feel like I'm in prison, and if local zoning ordinances allow for the installation of a moat.

I'm not trying to Monday morning quarterback, but in a lot of the home invasion accounts posted here, the homeowner wakes up after the intruder is in the house. I'd like to take steps to reduce the chances of that happening.
 
akarguy wrote:
...how could this have been handled better?
Click to expand...

And I think that's a very good question to ask.

Anyone rummaging through my house is not going to come away with anything irreplaceable which is why I pay for homeowner's insurance. So, in a situation like this:
  • Quietly get out of bed and lock the bedroom door
  • Wake my wife and get her to call 911
  • Retrieve my SD weapon.
  • Wait.
If the home invader is just "shopping" and gets what he wants out of the medicine cabinet in the guest bathroom then he'll probably just grab some pawnable stuff and leave. Then its just a question of making nice with the police when they come to take the report and do the fingerprinting.

RESULT:
  • No shooting, so no police investigation into whether or not is was "good".
  • No civil suit for wrongful death of the home invader
  • A shopping trip paid for by the insurance company.
On the other hand, if the home invader is looking for trouble then by staying put I gain an advantage because I know he has to come through the bedroom door. And while he fiddles with the door knob or tries to knock down the door, I know exactly where he is and what type of entry he is trying to make, so I have time to take up an optimal position.

RESULT:
  • It's the home invader with the belly wound and not me.
  • 911 tape documenting what led up to the shooting meaning greater chance the shooting will be "good".
 
For starters, the smart thing to do is to sleep with a loaded weapon, light, charged cell phone, and footwear readily available (this is for all trained people in the house). Once armed, call the police. Stay IN PLACE, as a defender. Make them come to you. The only exception to this is if there is a chance that the intruder is between you and defenseless family members or guests- than all bets are off. Move tactically and efficiently to the threat, using your knowledge of the floor plan to your advantage. As far as his performance, he failed his patrol- bad.
 
GBExpat said:
<sigh> ... and DGU stands for what, please?
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Article implied the homeowner was armed with a gun under his arm. Its not well written. DGU is defensive gun use but apparently the perp was armed, and not the homeowner (until his wife- the cavalry- showed up)
 
Jason_W said:
Still, I like the idea of making my door stronger.
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Wandering off topic... but the best thing you can do to make your door stronger is go the the hardware store and buy some 3 1/2 inch screws. Use them to replace the dinky little screws your home building put in your doors strike plates. Now, instead of your doors lock being anchored into just the frame, it is anchored into the wall.
 
Interesting way the thread is going. How do you know when you should 'check a noise' in your house and when you should hunker down and call 911?

I have made my bedroom into a 'safe room' with cell, landline, tactical flashlight, 9mm on shelf on nightstand, true cover, and an (existing) convoluted entry into the room. And that's where the dogs may or may not be depending on what was heard. My plan is to defend that room until help arrives (911, but I'm rural so it will take time). OTOH, there are certainly times when I get up to check on what I or the dogs heard.
 
I just have to ask, where do you guys live that you just call the cops every time you hear a bump in the night?

#1 if I and the people I know called the police every time we heard a bump in the night the county would have to at least double the number of police on duty... to investigate stray dogs

#2 if someone is in my house I don't really want to just hunker down for the three to five hours it's going to take the police to get there. Not to mention, I have kids in two other rooms.

In the real world, at least the one I live in, you just investigate yourself. Like the guy did that got shot. The question is how to do it without being the one that gets shot.
 
Funny thing about entry doors.... down here in paradise (south Florida) all the entry doors open outwards (just guessing since I'm not a builder but figure it's to code because of hurricanes...).

Having grown up in Alabama (at least between age 12 and 19) I can attest that country folks have a bit different mindset than city folks do.... Dangerous business fooling around someone's house at night in the rural south.... When I got into police work after a stint in the military I did notice a definite different attitude toward self-defense in the suburban city I worked for... All of that was long ago but I've been on both sides of that issue when armed citizens meant an armed homeowner at his(or her) own residence or apartment....

As I've already noted an armed confrontation is a real crapshoot with no certain outcome for anyone involved - good guy or bad guy...
 
akarguy said:
This week in NH two homeowners awoke to noises in their house during the night. The husband tucked a gun under his arm and approached the intruder (who was obviously on something) while rifling through their medicine cabinet... An altercation ensued, the intruder was also armed, and shot the homeowner! So many things wrong with this approach. The wife managed to arm herself and hold the perp for police to arrive. Very real scenario with potentially devastating outcomes for the victims. NH has Castle Doctrine. I get it, adrenaline is pumping but please chime in, how could this have been handled better?

http://www.wmur.com/article/homeown...er-armed-man-found-in-home-police-say/9985906
Click to expand...

Well, in Texas you do not even have to see a weapon at night if someone breaks into your home.

I do not know what the rules are in NH.

If I owned a house, I would have auxiliary lighting in all areas of the house that could be turned on using switches that would light up rooms and hallways, staircases etc well ahead of you as you move through the house. Or even better, auxiliary lighting in all rooms in the house that could be turned on with a single switch in the bedroom. It really helps if you can see what is going on without having to expose yourself.
 
Well, the homeowner won't have to worry about another encounter with that criminal. The judge let the guy go on a $10,000.00 bail and told him to stay away from firearms. That'll fix that bad guy! :eek:

L.W.
 
Ok, so guy wakes up to a noise, goes to investigate and sees bad guy in bathroom holding gun rummaging through the medicine cabinet.

As I mentioned in another thread, if you can, get an alarm system....some people sleep like rocks and some of these criminals have a lot of practice staying quiet/sneaking around. But outside of that, I would not go investigate a "bump in the night" without my sidearm and light. Strangely, they apparently had a gun in the living room but not bedside? I also wouldn't choose to engage a man with a gun with my bare hands, the homeowner chose to and could have lost his life. I think I would have bypassed the bathroom and went and grabbed the wife's gun in the living room at that point. As for those saying "when you hear a noise call the cops and shelter in place!". That's very unrealistic as 9 times out of 10 it's not a bad guy, it's something else.

At the end of the day, people sometimes make strange decisions under stress.
 
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