Hope for Illinois???

[Autolycus]

I cant wait to hear that they are charging Daley with something! The man is rediculously corrupt. Though I will give him credit for his ability to avoid indictment for a long time.

I am from the suburbs of Chicago and I noticed a range in Chicago Ridge closed. I know there is a gunshop in the Brookfield area. Other than that I dont know of any others in Cook County.

Thats one of the reasons I am applying to Cook County DOC so I can carry. Its not to bad of a job but it pays well. I want to get on a local police department so I figure Cook county DOC is a good place to start.

As it stands I want to see Illinois become a CCW state soon. I think that Topinka will sign the legislation if we can get it to her. Getting it to her is the big problem now.

 

[Edmond]

I am from the suburbs of Chicago and I noticed a range in Chicago Ridge closed. I know there is a gunshop in the Brookfield area.

The one that closed was Southwest over on Southwest Highway just east of Harlem. I think they did themselves in. They started mandating that you shoot "clean fire" ammo, which they conveniently sold at very high prices. If you didn't want that, you could've bought their reloads, which were also ridiculously priced. I know the reloads weren't clean fire...

The one near Brookfield is Midwest, I believe. I've shot there before. If you can get a bunch of people together, rent the upstairs range. It's open as opposed to being in a booth and I like the setup.

There is also Sporting Arms in Posen. We shoot there at least once a month. It's on Western Avenue and roughly 143rd south.

There is also Chuck's in Riverdale but I wouldn't venture into Chuck's or into Riverdale...

If you're a little west, check out Rink's in Lockport. I bought my G30 from them, they're good people.

BTW, if you need a good FFL, PM me and I'll hook you up with my FFL. He's a great guy to deal with, been dealing with him for years now. He charges $20 and wants you to pick items up the next day at the latest!

Well, it's time to get ready for work. Gotta go sweep an apartment complex full of drug dealers, it's going to be a fun night...

 

[GoRon]

I am from the suburbs of Chicago and I noticed a range in Chicago Ridge closed. I know there is a gunshop in the Brookfield area. Other than that I dont know of any others in Cook County.

Midwest Guns in Lyons is in Cook County.

 

[Autolycus]

I didnt know the name of the Chicago Ridge shop except that it used to be a gunstore. The guy who bought it was a former Marine and was giving instruction. He is no longer there anymore.

I bought my first gun from Midwest. They are extremely high priced for guns but their range prices are more than fair. The staff is pretty nice but the selection is somewaht limited. You are right Edmond]/B] that Midwest is in Cook County.

I have been to Rinks. I live in Orland Park so it is very close. However the last time I was there the kid behind the counter was hitting on this girl and saying some rather innapropriate things to her. Apparently they were dating but I didnt want to discuss it. I got a lot of dirty looks in there by some of the staff when I asked about CCW training for an out of state permit. They wanted to know if I was a LEO. Once I told them no it was pretty much shock that I would want to carry.

My best experiecnes have been at Megasports in Plainfield. Awesome prices and friendly staff. Best selection I have ever seen. I highly recomend it to anyone.

Overall though I feel that IL is a hard egg to crack when it comes to CCW. We really need to revamp the gun rights movement out here and to get some gun friendly legislators. Its a long hard battle out here under Daley's shadow.

 

[GoRon]

The one near Brookfield is Midwest, I believe. I've shot there before. If you can get a bunch of people together, rent the upstairs range. It's open as opposed to being in a booth and I like the setup.

Better yet take Jacks class(es) and he will probably invite you to shoot in his practical pistol shoot training he holds twice a month. Check out his resume at the website, the man knows his stuff.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

Don't remember names offhand

Mannheim Road, just south of O'Hare over the railroad bridge. Indoor pistol range, time limited, with their ammo only. Limited selection.

Irving Park Road, west of O'Hare, east of the tracks. 25-yard indoor RIFLE range, unlimited time, no steel jacketed ammo. Decent selection, especially C&R handguns that I couldn't afford (Mausers, Lugers, P-38s, Inglis Hi-Powers)

Prices: didn't ask if it included Crook County extortion fees; if so, reasonable. If not, unreasonable. "Deadly Weapons License," daily reporting of all transactions, bribes (I mean, "political contributions"), there's a couple other things that I can see adding to overhead.

edit: Bell's is the first, in Franklin Park. GunWorld is the second, in Bensenville.

 

[PCGS65]

No hope for Illinois. Never has been and never will be.

 

[PCGS65]

Overall though I feel that IL is a hard egg to crack when it comes to CCW. We really need to revamp the gun rights movement out here and to get some gun friendly legislators. Its a long hard battle out here under Daley's shadow.

Daley reminds me of Joseph Stalin. The iron grip on everything.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Couple points to clear up:

1. Jeff was the one who said Topinka used to favor the AWB. I wouldn't doubt it, since that was George Ryan's stand, too, but I don't remember it. I do remember George Ryan doing photo ops with tables of full-auto weapons that were illegal for him to touch and opining sagely that he never needed an AR-15 to hunt squirrels in Kankakee as a boy.

2. To quote someone, you copy the text you want to quote (the easiest way is to highlight the text with your mouse, and just hit Control and "C" at the same time.) Then you bring up the reply box and click the "quote" button. Then paste the text (Control + "V" is the simple way) and hit the quote button again.

3. Topinka looks pro-gun standing next to Blagojevich for the same reason Michael Jackson might look like a black guy standing next to Carrot Top.

 

[Autolycus]

Does anyone think that IL will have CCW within the next 2 years?

And does anyone think that Topinka will actually win or will the people of this state reelect Blago?

 

[PCGS65]

Deleted duplicate.

 

[PCGS65]

Does anyone think that IL will have CCW within the next 2 years?

Not by a long shot.

And does anyone think that Topinka will actually win or will the people of this state reelect Blago?

Sad to say Blago wins easily. Not to say Topinka is much better. Illinois is just in deep for a long time.

 

[Edmond]

Does anyone think that IL will have CCW within the next 2 years?

What you don't know is that people who have money, but not necessarily politicial influence, already have CCW's.

Don, care to explain what the "tan card" is all about. If you have the money, you can go get one from an agency that is willing to get you one, if you have the money.

 

[Jeff White]

Edmund,
Perhaps you'd like to explain a tan card to me. I'm an Illinois peace officer and I'm unaware of any tan card that allows someone to CCW.

Jeff

 

[Autolycus]

I know security guards and IL DOC officers can carry on their way to and from work. I believe they have one hour before and after work to do this.

I have never heard of this tan card either. Please explain it to me. There are many people who think IL is a may issue state but that simply is not true.

 

[isp2605]

I know security guards and IL DOC officers can carry on their way to and from work. I believe they have one hour before and after work to do this.

Nope, not for IDOC officers. If they need a firearm then they draw if at their institution.
There are some jobs with IDOC that have armed officers, ie, Internal and a few others. But that's not the guys you see in the light green shirts.

 

[Edmond]

The tan card is the card issued to those who qualify under the Private Detective Act to carry a firearm. It's technically called a FAC (firearms authorization card) but is called a tan card because it is tan in color.

Around here, in the Cook County area, it's common for those who have money (mostly wealthy business owners) to approach a detective/security agency, give them some business and request a tan card. Money talks, you know and the agency feels obligated to give a tan card to the wealthy person.

The tan cards are only ordered through an agency that has the proper licenses to have their personnel work armed. The tan cards are property of the agency, those with a private detective license can order their own tan card which is their property. But if the agency orders a tan card for someone, it is property of the agency.

Technically, those with tan cards are permitted to carry to and from work, one hour to and from the work site. However, some agencies label those wealthy business people as "supervisors" when in fact they're not really working for the agency at all and claim that they are on call 24 hours a day so they need to carry 24 hours a day. And there you have your CCW for wealthy private citizens.

 

[ilbob]

I doubt the tan card scam would work. Most cops would probably laugh at the idea that some rich guy was a security guard supervisor as they carted him off to jail.

I did not even know they issued tan cards anymore. When I worked as a guard like a million years ago, it was blue, and changed to tan shortly before I left the business to find a real job.

I was a supervisor and I can assure you that while I often had a uniform and gun in the trunk when I was off duty, I would not have carried it concealed just wondering around. Back then the CPD was not anywhere near as anti-gun as these days, and I probably could have talked my way out of any problems just with a FOID card. It was not uncommon for CPD cops to let people go who they found with guns if they had a FOID.

I do not believe the claim of being on duty 24/7 would ever hold up in court, or with any cop on the street for that matter, nor would a claim of being an employee of the agency unless there was a legitimate employer/employee relationship.

There is some legitimacy to the idea that a tan card might allow a PI to carry pretty much as he pleases, as it is very difficult to say when he is or is not working.

I thought I read somewhere that the one hour was changed to two hours. I was often in violation of the one hour rule if I took public transportation.

 

[Edmond]

You are right in some ways. The blue card is still issued but that is for general work, it does not allow you to be armed. The tan is for working armed.

They would lie and falsify documents to make the guy seem like he was at work. I know you find this hard to believe and that someone would actually try it but...

 

[Autolycus]

Anyone want to start a Detective agency?

How does one get a PI license?

I heard tat these cards were called PERK cards? PERK being some sort of acronym. Anyways I just wish they would give up their antigun agenda and become a shall issue state. It just seems to me that they are holding out to be the last state in the country without some sort of permit system. I am tired of this state and really desperate to leave it.

My mistake ISP2605. Does that mean IL DOC cannot carry off duty?

 

[ilbob]

There was an interesting scam that was an offshoot of something legit. Back many years ago, like in the 70s and 80s, it was not uncommon for LE agencies to have all manner of "sort of" cops associated with the agency.

They had all kinds of names such as special deputies, auxiliary police; one PD (Harwood Heights IIRC) called them reserve marshals.

Some of them were legitimate part time employees of the department (still not unheard of in places like Rosemont), others were little more than security guards that had been deputized for reasons that often were political or convenience oriented in nature. Sometimes sheriff's departments deputize corrections officers, sometimes not. Sometimes the evidence technicians are allowed to carry, I don't know whether they carry off duty.

The Cook County sheriff's department had hundreds of part time jail guards at one time, all of them deputized and allowed to carry off duty. They also snuck in a bunch of people who never actually worked. The corrections union raised a big stink about the part timers and got them all fired because they were not in the union and did not pay dues.

I think most of the part time employees are no longer allowed to carry off duty in most departments, but there is an interesting aspect to the LEOSA (aka HR218) in that respect. This highly dubious law (from a constitutional standpoint) does not require that the LEO in question be a full time employee. I read somewhere that some CA sheriff's have stopped issuing CC permits to some of their reservists as apparently at least some of them qualify under this law and thus no longer need them.

It might be against department policy, but some of these "sort of" cops, may well have been given nationwide CC. Perhaps inadvertantly. There are all kinds of other "sort of" cops that may be in the same position.

It is just a matter of time until some cop or retired cop carrying on his ID card in another state shoots someone. The feds are not going to pay the legal bills or the settlement. My guess is the department he works for or retried from is going to be stuck with permanent liability for their employees after they retire, as well as while they are employed.

 

[ilbob]

Anyone want to start a Detective agency?

How does one get a PI license?

Used to be you just had to pass the private detective test and have some experience, like 3 years. The big security guard companies wanted to change the way it worked to get rid of the small time operators. Many of the small time operators were cops running 20 or 30 security guards on the side. As long as you stayed under some magic number, and some of the rules and regulations that applied to larger companies did not apply to these smaller outfits.

Funny, but true story. There was an oral and written part to the private detective exam. There was an old geezer on the board who always asked the same question on the oral part of the exam. It was about the Mann Act.

PERC = Permanent employee record card.

Originally, the blue card was issued along with the certificate from the department of registration and education after you took the 30 hour course to work as an armed guard. The guard agency would send in fingerprint cards and 6-10 weeks later an ID card would come back saying he had passed the background check. It was not clear whether it was legal for the guy to work armed before the ID card came through.

Later they stopped issuing the blue cards and started issuing tan cards but only if the company you worked for requested them, and only after the fingerprints cleared. This was obviously a huge problem since it could take months after you hired a guy to get a tan card and ID from the state. In the meantime they could work, but since the blue card was no longer valid, they could not work armed.

Eventually they came up with the PERC card which is issued to the employee and they keep it. I am not in the business anymore so I am not sure just how this helped any. maybe as long as the card is valid no fingerprints are required or something. I just don't know.

I think there is now a requirement to have 20 hours of training to get the PERC card and 20 additional hours to work armed.

One of the big problems in the business is the rapid turnover. State law did not allow you to work for more than one detective agency simultaneously, and the state would not issue you an ID card if you had not turned in the card to the previous employer or the previous employer had not bothered to send it back to the state. It was a huge mess.

 

[Autolycus]

Well I have heard that people who estimate the price of real estate qualify as private investigators. And that you have to work 2 cases a year. There seems to be all kinds of rumors about ways to legally carry in IL.

 

[ilbob]

Well I have heard that people who estimate the price of real estate qualify as private investigators. And that you have to work 2 cases a year.

The law regarding private detectives was always pretty vague as to what type of activities required one to be a private detective. There were all kinds of exemptions for people like insurance investigators stating they did not have to either be a PD or work for a PD agency.

The only thing I recall for sure was if you wanted to have a private security agency (rent-a-cop) you had to be a PD.

I seem to recall the state would not issue tan cards to security guards who worked directly for a company (not an outside contractor) unless a PD was somehow in the supervision chain, although ironically, the PD did not have to reside in Illinois, just have an Illinois license.

 

[Jeff White]

You can find everything you want to know about the qualifications to get a private investigator's license in Illinois here:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...+Private+Security,+and+Locksmith+Act+of+2004.

Here are the requirements to get a Firearms Authorization Card:

(225 ILCS 447/35‑35)
(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2014)
Sec. 35‑35. Requirement of a firearm authorization card.
(a) No person shall perform duties that include the use, carrying, or possession of a firearm in the performance of those duties without complying with the provisions of this Section and having been issued a valid firearm authorization card by the Department.
(b) No employer shall employ any person to perform the duties for which employee registration is required and allow that person to carry a firearm unless that person has complied with all the firearm training requirements of this Section and has been issued a firearm authorization card. This Act permits only the following to carry firearms while actually engaged in the performance of their duties or while commuting directly to or from their places of employment: persons licensed as private detectives and their registered employees; persons licensed as private security contractors and their registered employees; persons licensed as private alarm contractors and their registered employees; and employees of a registered armed proprietary security force.
(c) Possession of a valid firearm authorization card allows an employee to carry a firearm not otherwise prohibited by law while the employee is engaged in the performance of his or her duties or while the employee is commuting directly to or from the employee's place or places of employment, provided that this is accomplished within one hour from departure from home or place of employment.
(d) The Department shall issue a firearm authorization card to a person who has passed an approved firearm training course, who is currently employed by an agency licensed by this Act and has met all the requirements of this Act, and who possesses a valid firearm owner identification card. Application for the firearm authorization card shall be made by the employer to the Department on forms provided by the Department. The Department shall forward the card to the employer who shall be responsible for its issuance to the employee. The firearm authorization card shall be issued by the Department and shall identify the person holding it and the name of the course where the employee received firearm instruction and shall specify the type of weapon or weapons the person is authorized by the Department to carry and for which the person has been trained.
(e) Expiration and requirements for renewal of firearm authorization cards shall be determined by rule.
(f) The Department may, in addition to any other disciplinary action permitted by this Act, refuse to issue, suspend, or revoke a firearm authorization card if the applicant or holder has been convicted of any felony or crime involving the illegal use, carrying, or possession of a deadly weapon or for a violation of this Act or rules promulgated under this Act. The Department shall refuse to issue or shall revoke a firearm authorization card if the applicant or holder fails to possess a valid firearm owners identification card. The Director shall summarily suspend a firearm authorization card if the Director finds that its continued use would constitute an imminent danger to the public. A hearing shall be held before the Board within 30 days if the Director summarily suspends a firearm authorization card.
(g) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act to the contrary, all requirements relating to firearms authorization cards do not apply to a peace officer.
(Source: P.A. 93‑438, eff. 8‑5‑03.)


(225 ILCS 447/35‑40)
(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2014)
Sec. 35‑40. Firearm authorization; training requirements.
(a) The Department shall, pursuant to rule, approve or disapprove training programs for the firearm training course, which shall be taught by a qualified instructor. Qualifications for instructors shall be set by rule. The firearm training course shall be conducted by entities, by a licensee, or by an agency licensed by this Act, provided the course is approved by the Department. The firearm course shall consist of the following minimum requirements:
(1) 40 hours of training, 20 hours of which shall be
as described in Sections 15‑20, 20‑20, or 25‑20, as applicable, and 20 hours of which shall include all of the following:

(A) Instruction in the dangers of and misuse of
firearms, their storage, safety rules, and care and cleaning of firearms.

(B) Practice firing on a range with live
ammunition.

(C) Instruction in the legal use of firearms.
(D) A presentation of the ethical and moral
considerations necessary for any person who possesses a firearm.

(E) A review of the laws regarding arrest,
search, and seizure.

(F) Liability for acts that may be performed in
the course of employment.

(2) An examination shall be given at the completion
of the course. The examination shall consist of a firearms qualification course and a written examination. Successful completion shall be determined by the Department.

(b) The firearm training requirement may be waived for an employee who has completed training provided by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board or the equivalent public body of another state, provided documentation showing requalification with the weapon on the firing range is submitted to the Department.
(Source: P.A. 93‑438, eff. 8‑5‑03.)

You might note part C which I have highlighted. A Firearms Authorization card is not, I say again is not a way to CCW. As for getting appointed as an Auxillary Police Officer, an auxillary officer only has peace officer status when on duty and in uniform. So that's not a legal way to CCW either.

Jeff