Hornady LnL AP case feeder - cases tipping

[milanuk]

What you guys are saying about the wire does not appear to be physically possible, at least not on this machine. Either mine has something mis-configured (definitely possible) or there is some other difference.

It also contradicts the manual:



Here is what it looks like as I normally have it adjusted:



The cam wire:



The case slide assembly:



Closest point of approach - notice that the shell plate is *not* yet fully rotated into position (Hornady said it should be):




Now if I raise the cam wire like you guys say I should be doing (granted, this is an extreme over adjustment for the purpose of illustrating a point):



Then this is where the vee block hits the shell plate. Like I said, it's not physically possible (as I'm sitting here looking at it) for 'raising' the cam wire to work:



I am using the #2 vee block specified in the manual for 9mm & .223 Rem. If I used a shorter vee block intended for another cartridge body, wouldn't I run into problems w/ the case not being pushed far enough into the notch? Seems more an issue of timing than dimension? I do think that a large part of the issue is that the case feeder is advancing the case into the shell plate before the plate has settled into its detent. As a result, I'm hitting the leading edge of the entry into the notch in the shell plate. The problem is... if I adjust the left pawl timing any further to advance the shellplate sooner (so it would be in position and lined up to accept the case from the vee block), I find the pawl pushes the shellplate too far and I begin to get interference problems between the vee block and the *back* edge of the shell plate notch. There must be a happy medium or 'sweet spot' in there some where, but I'll be dipped if I can find it.

I do appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting in here... I just wish someone who had a properly set up LnL AP was around here to take a look at it in person and point out what I must have screwed up during setup.

TIA,

Monte

 

[Borg]

Way too much,, just need a thread at a time, you'd be supprised at how much it moves with just a 1/2 thread.
I have 1 and 1/2 thread above the nut, an 1/2 one way or the other is too much, or too little.
A very close adjustment.
'Borg

 

[milanuk]

But it would still be advancing the vee-block *sooner* wouldn't it?

 

[Borg]

Then one of you pawls is adjusted too far.
And if you tighten the V block down WHILE you hold it in place, all it takes is .002 to .004 to make a difference.
'Borg

 

[milanuk]

This would be soooo much easier (I think) in real time

What you're telling me does not make sense when I go down and sit in front of the press.

I told you I cannot advance the time of the left pawl (the one that controls the position on this portion of the stroke) any further without going *too* far - as in a) hitting the back side of the notch and b) the cog on the bottom of the ram starts hitting the vertical portion of the pawl, rather than the ramp, and jams the whole press.

I cannot retard the shellplate any further via the left pawl, because it isn't going far enough, soon enough as it is.

And then you keep wanting me to adjust the cam wire in a direction that will push the vee block into the shell plate sooner, rather than later i.e. *after* the shell plate finishes advancing (which from where I'm sitting, seems to be what it needs). Maybe I'm just being denser than usual, but that makes no sense at all.

As for the vee-block... I have it turned (as much as it can) toward the front of the press (towards my left as I face the press. If I turn it *at all* to the back of the press (my right), it starts hitting the mouth of the notch as it comes forward - because the vee block comes in *before* the shell plate is done moving.

With the current reloading insanity going on, I'm about ready to box this blasted thing and put it up for sale. If it's that damn fussy, maybe I should just stick to my 550.

 

[Borg]

Without cases, see if the shellplate is in the detents when the V block is in the last 1/32th inch or less. Go slow so you can tell when it snaps in.
Once you get this set up, you'll love it.
'Borg

 

[Borg]

Are you raising your pawl, or lowerinng it?
The higher the pawl, the more it advances the plate.
Borg

 

[WV_Vizsla]

milanuk
Have you compared the measurements of your wire to anyone else's??
Could be as simple as needing more threads up the wire. Hornady will have the measurements.
I would provide my data except my calipers are AWOL

Once this is cleared up and running right YOU TO will be searching for more nuggets, powder and primers to feed the red ammo making goblin monster.

 

[WV_Vizsla]

milanuk
Have you compared the measurements of your wire to anyone else's??
Could be as simple as needing more threads up the wire. Hornady will have the measurements.
I would provide my data except my calipers are AWOL

Once this is cleared up and running right YOU TO will be searching for more nuggets, powder and primers to feed the red ammo making goblin monster.

 

[WV_Vizsla]

milanuk
Have you compared the measurements of your wire to anyone else's??
Could be as simple as needing more threads up the wire. Hornady will have the measurements.
I would provide my data except my calipers are AWOL

Once this is cleared up and running right YOU TO will be searching for more nuggets, powder and primers to feed the red ammo making goblin monster.

 

[bobotech]

I spent quite a long time figureing out how to adjust those darned pawls.

I came to a few conclusions. I should start a new thread but I'm just going to post here.

First of all, the directions in the manual are confusing. I made pictures cuz pictures are easier.

First picture:

What it shows is if you rotate the pawl screw LEFT (counterclockwise), the shell plate will rotate more RIGHT (clockwise).

Next picture:

What it shows is if you rotate the pawl screw RIGHT (clockwise), the shell plate will rotate more LEFT (counterclockwise).

Rule 1:
Left pawl adjusts the shell plate when it comes down. This is the one that causes problems with cases feeding into the shell plate or priming problems (they both rely on the the downstroke of the shell plate).

Rule 2:
Right pawl adjusts the shell plate when it goes up. This is the area that causes problems with cases entering the dies (jamming on the sizing die is the big problem child).

The rest:
Now, another key point to keep in mind about the clicks.. The manual says to listen for clicks as the shell plate is locked into place at the end of the press arm stroke. They don't explain it very well though. When I was first fighting the left pawl (shell plate problems with priming and case feeding), the manual said to listen for 2 clicks. They didn't explain that the clicks are VERY soft and I was mistaking the releasing of the RIGHT pawl being the first click when in reality, the proper click is a very soft one. The clicks are first the sound of the pawl releasing and the second click is the sound of the 2 ball bearings locking the shell plate into proper place.

The key about that is you want the adjust the pawls so that the 2 distinct clicks merge into one click, that means the pawl is releasing exactly at the same time as the ball bearings are locking into place. If you are thinking that the loud clicking is the proper noise, then you are wrong like I was.

And when adjusting these pawls, you need to move the press arm VERY slowly.

Oh well, I hope these instructions help someone else.

 

[Fred40]

Thanks bobotech,

I don't think there is anything wrong with mine.....but I printed this off for future reference!

 

[Borg]

Monte;
Have you got it straightened out yet?
Borg

 

[Wilburt]

Thanks bobotech

+1 I've been putting it off cause it's only slightly out (i think) but now i might try to tackle the beast.

 

[barbarian]

The photos strongly suggest a timing problem but it sounds like you've addressed this possibility. I would suggest:

1. Have Hornady send a new cam wire - maybe the lengths/angles are wrong on yours.
2. (If you have the option) take a video of the malfunction and send it to Hornady (this is a good way of communicating this type of information and was helpful for an issue I was having). It may avert having to send the press back to the factory.
3. If it comes down to it you may need to box the whole thing up and send it back to the factory. if the problem is repeatable they will fix it.
4. Pick a good tech and stick with them until this is resolved. I've had the best luck with Doug and John.

Good luck and keep us appraised.

Barbarian

 

[Samgotit]

I've done everything listed in this thread and more. My problem is identical to the OP's.

What has not worked:

1. Adjusting ram arm, changing rams and changing positions of the ram head
2. Adjusting pawls
3. Making sure my brass is in spec
4. Lubing the ram shuttle
5. Screaming

What I did see was that someone had a new shell plate sent to them after speaking with Hornady. What I'm wondering is, are shell plates they send different and did they work.

 

[Walkalong]

Screaming usually seems to help, but if that didn't work either, I would call Hornady. They let a bad shell plate slip out now and again. They have been seriously busy for some time. They may be able to fix it over the phone as well.

 

[Onagoth]

Did you ever come up with a solution here?

I am having the exact same problem, the cases tilt towards the center of the shellplate cause them to stop moving fully into the shellplate.

Its definitely not a timing issue (although my timing cam is also maxed out) as the shellplate is fully locked in place before the case starts to enter.

 

[Samgotit]

Called Hornady, they are sending out a replacement cam wire. I should get it tomorrow. Hopefully, it is threaded higher. I'll report back after I replace it.

In this rare instance, Walkalong was wrong. Screaming did nothing.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, at least the call to Hornady shows promise.

 

[Borg]

Something else you can try if it doesn't line up.
Loosen the "V" block and bring the "V" toward you and re tighten.
There is just a small amount of play in the Block that it will help fine tune the block to the plate.
IIRC, seems to me I had to do this when I first got mine.
Borg

 

[Samgotit]

I received the new cam wire today. It lined up identical to the original and was not visibly different, but it did give me a little bit more adjustment after I replaced it. I'm close to the top of the treads but not touching now. It is feeding more reliably; it's not perfect, though. I still get enough tipping to be annoying. The up stroke (feed stroke) can't be too fast.

I need more time with it, but my thought right now is, it's intolerant of cases with high, spent primers; i.e., I think primers that stick out of fired cases are part of the problem. They catch the retaining spring/groove. I have to do a bit more detective work to be sure. But even ignoring high primers, I can't keep a steady pace. The up stroke has to be pretty delicate.

I picked up the feeder up on Amazon.com for $228 shipped. I'd be doing more screaming if I would have paid the $280 I see it at normally. Now on to fixing the hopper jams. :banghead: Still, Hornady has been good with customer service.

 

[WV_Vizsla]

Try this... Each time a case misfeeds, set it aside. Then look them over when you have ~20-30 as a test group. I found that S&B have small diameter rims that are sometimes tall or short. Some Win military and other odd military might have tall rims that stick a little. I toss all S&B and other suspects in the recycle during initial inspection.

If you feel that you need more threads on the wire, just run a thread die up it an additional 1/2 or more.

Is the turning of the prowls clicking at the right timing?
Once it runs happy you will be happy!

 

[Big-Mo]

adjustment of AP case loader

Well I know i am new here but. it looks to me after examining the loader and my case feeder that it is possible for the plate that is under the press to be out of line as well. all that are having problems with the alignment of the case feeder to the index try to loosen up the mounting bolts and move the guide rod plate away from the base of the unit that will give you more adjustment to move the timing away or slow it down before it gets to the shell holder.

Also I have noticed it is possible for the bracket to be bent causing the smae problems. it can be adjusted(bent) away from the loader very easily. might want to check that as well.

hope this helps.

Mo

 

[Walkalong]

I had a Big Mo on a 9 & 10 year old Dixie Youth team years ago. Twin brothers, not identical. Last name Mozekas, thus...Big Mo & Lil' Mo. Big Mo stole home one time on a good team. He was big, but sneaky. Won the game for us. Fond memories of coaching.


Welcome to THR Big Mo.