I have a H&R Topper in 22 Hornet. I bought the rifle new about 30+ years ago. I have brought it out of retirement. I tried Sierra 45 grain bullets but accuracy is not great. I am using IMR 4227. Hornady makes a 35 grain bullet. Would this bullet be more accurate in this Hornet Rifle. Thanks, Byron
Hornet accuracy
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Bad Flynch
Member
Use the 35 grain Hornady V-Max and a little Lil'Gun. Try using small pistol primers instead of small rifle, especially do not use small rifle primers meant for the .222-.223-.222Mag class of cartridge. Remington brass is the brass of choice, it holds more in most lots.
Byron, I suspect your Topper may have a long throat. Most Hornets do for whatever reason. You don't say how you're seating your bullets. Seat them as far out as you can without quite touching the lands. In a single shot you're not limited to standard OAL. It might help. Also, the rifle itself might need a little tweaking. Look at some of the NEF boards for tricks there. Regards, Woody
I never did get my hornet to shoot that well, but the best groups in my Hornet were achieved with Lil' Gun. Small pistol primers didn't do that well for me.
On a sidenote, now that I have a little more reloading experience, I think that I need to revisit the Hornet because I think I might have been making a HUGE mistake. Yeah, seat that sucker way out if it's like most hornets.
On a sidenote, now that I have a little more reloading experience, I think that I need to revisit the Hornet because I think I might have been making a HUGE mistake. Yeah, seat that sucker way out if it's like most hornets.
Bad Flynch
Member
>Thank You for your help and advice. How does the SP primer use differ from the SR use? Thanks, Byron<
In theory, part of the problem with the Hornet's accuracy is that the really thin case necks allow the bullet to jump to the lands (throught that long throat) before the pressure is up and burning well and evenly. It takes a certain amount of resistance at the start to get good, proper ignition.
Small pistol primers are gentler and less apt to make the bullet jump early. They might also not get things up and running as well, so it is a thing to try and experiment with.
Another soluton is to use the Lee Factory Crimp die or some other crimp die and cannelured bullets. That should raise the resistance up at the beginning, too. Some people report excellent results with this.
In theory, part of the problem with the Hornet's accuracy is that the really thin case necks allow the bullet to jump to the lands (throught that long throat) before the pressure is up and burning well and evenly. It takes a certain amount of resistance at the start to get good, proper ignition.
Small pistol primers are gentler and less apt to make the bullet jump early. They might also not get things up and running as well, so it is a thing to try and experiment with.
Another soluton is to use the Lee Factory Crimp die or some other crimp die and cannelured bullets. That should raise the resistance up at the beginning, too. Some people report excellent results with this.
Zeke Menuar
Member
Rechamber to 22 K-Hornet?
ZM
ZM
GooseGestapo
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You just may not be able to get all that great of accuracy from your Topper. I had one back around '75 to '77 and never got much out of it. I tried 40 to 50gr bullets, had the trigger lighted to ~2lb; it didn't stay that way long though; and shot up about 4lbs of H110, 2400, 4227, and some 296 and a little BlueDot trying to get it to "shoot", unfortunately, Win680 dissappeared before I could get any to try.
About 2" at 100yds w/40gr Sierra's SMP was about the best I could do, but a T/C Contender I had w/7.5"bbl and 3x "Lobo" scope would match it, or usually better it.
I've had a Ruger m77/22 "carbine", a "botched .22 K-hornet in a Ruger #3, and now have the only Hornet "Keeper", a Ruger M77/22 Hornet KBZ, the stainless/laminated w/med.-heavy 24"bbl.
It is fond of the following loads:
Sierra 40gr HP "VarmintMaster" .224", seated to 1.78" oal.
12.5gr of Hod. Lil-GUN
Winchester "Prepped" cases(neck turned, flash holes deburred and primer pockets reamed-much work! or Sellier&Bellot cases which have an extreamly small flashole (~.060") that required grinding down my decapping pins to load. With the S&B cases, this load will reliably shoot 7/8-1" 5-shot groups, winds permitting.
Winchester Small Pistol primers!
This load gives 3,050fps and has taken a lot of game/varmints including the only coyote I've killed, several fox, and a number of deer!
Hornady 50gr SX .224"
10.8gr AA#1680
Win SP primer
Seated to 1.835"OAL
This load only chrono's 2,480fps, but is an absolute reliable tack driver from mine and several other Hornets I've tried it in. Note that the OAL is very long- dosen't fit any magazines- must be single loaded. I shot a witnessed 5 shot group that measured .4" one calm evening, but have been unable to repeat it, ever! Usually 3/4" to 7/8" is nominal.
Hornady 35gr V-max
11.2gr of H-110
1.720" oal (likes this bullet seated deep! ditto with Rem 45gr HP over 10.8gr of H-Lilgun)
V-max is "screaming" at 3,150fps.
Note my loads for this rifle are bit lower than most published maximums. It has a very tight chamber for a Hornet.
One deer took one to "heart" one evening delivered by my then 13yr old neighbors son. Only ~9" penetration and only plastic tip recovered from "mush" of what was left of deers heart. I DON'T recommend using this load on larger game, but the "kid" insisted on using this rifle/bullet to kill his first deer. I had let him shoot it at the range and he "deerly" loved it. He now prefers/uses the .243 Rem700 I bought him.
This rifle took a LOT of tweaking to get to shoot like this. (Free floating barrel, glass bedding, trigger pull reduction, barrel fire lapping, ect, ect, and LOTS of load testing, and trying three makes of reloading dies.) It still needs a bolt sleave tightening as I've gone through 3 home-made wire shims to keep it tight enough to extract fired brass as it has enough play between the bolt body and bolt head to prevent the cases from being cammed out of the breech requiring a wooden block to rap the bolt backward to achieve extraction.
A common problem with m77/22 Hornets, I'm told. This one's just worse than most, but I'm afraid of what Ruger might do to it if I send it back. I'll just fit another piece of wire from time to time I suppose!
About 2" at 100yds w/40gr Sierra's SMP was about the best I could do, but a T/C Contender I had w/7.5"bbl and 3x "Lobo" scope would match it, or usually better it.
I've had a Ruger m77/22 "carbine", a "botched .22 K-hornet in a Ruger #3, and now have the only Hornet "Keeper", a Ruger M77/22 Hornet KBZ, the stainless/laminated w/med.-heavy 24"bbl.
It is fond of the following loads:
Sierra 40gr HP "VarmintMaster" .224", seated to 1.78" oal.
12.5gr of Hod. Lil-GUN
Winchester "Prepped" cases(neck turned, flash holes deburred and primer pockets reamed-much work! or Sellier&Bellot cases which have an extreamly small flashole (~.060") that required grinding down my decapping pins to load. With the S&B cases, this load will reliably shoot 7/8-1" 5-shot groups, winds permitting.
Winchester Small Pistol primers!
This load gives 3,050fps and has taken a lot of game/varmints including the only coyote I've killed, several fox, and a number of deer!
Hornady 50gr SX .224"
10.8gr AA#1680
Win SP primer
Seated to 1.835"OAL
This load only chrono's 2,480fps, but is an absolute reliable tack driver from mine and several other Hornets I've tried it in. Note that the OAL is very long- dosen't fit any magazines- must be single loaded. I shot a witnessed 5 shot group that measured .4" one calm evening, but have been unable to repeat it, ever! Usually 3/4" to 7/8" is nominal.
Hornady 35gr V-max
11.2gr of H-110
1.720" oal (likes this bullet seated deep! ditto with Rem 45gr HP over 10.8gr of H-Lilgun)
V-max is "screaming" at 3,150fps.
Note my loads for this rifle are bit lower than most published maximums. It has a very tight chamber for a Hornet.
One deer took one to "heart" one evening delivered by my then 13yr old neighbors son. Only ~9" penetration and only plastic tip recovered from "mush" of what was left of deers heart. I DON'T recommend using this load on larger game, but the "kid" insisted on using this rifle/bullet to kill his first deer. I had let him shoot it at the range and he "deerly" loved it. He now prefers/uses the .243 Rem700 I bought him.
This rifle took a LOT of tweaking to get to shoot like this. (Free floating barrel, glass bedding, trigger pull reduction, barrel fire lapping, ect, ect, and LOTS of load testing, and trying three makes of reloading dies.) It still needs a bolt sleave tightening as I've gone through 3 home-made wire shims to keep it tight enough to extract fired brass as it has enough play between the bolt body and bolt head to prevent the cases from being cammed out of the breech requiring a wooden block to rap the bolt backward to achieve extraction.
A common problem with m77/22 Hornets, I'm told. This one's just worse than most, but I'm afraid of what Ruger might do to it if I send it back. I'll just fit another piece of wire from time to time I suppose!
I had some 45 grain Sierra's that I had loaded some time ago.With a scope at 100 yards, it grouped 6" in an iratic pattern.I doubt improvement would be much with any new loading.
Does anyone know if the current New england Firearms in 22 Hornet are accurate? My budget is very limited (fixed income as I am a disabled vet) but I am open to suggestions on rifles.Thanks, Byron
Does anyone know if the current New england Firearms in 22 Hornet are accurate? My budget is very limited (fixed income as I am a disabled vet) but I am open to suggestions on rifles.Thanks, Byron
Byron,
remeber that some of the old Hornets were made for .223 bullets, not .224. Sierra still has .223 bullets, so give 'em a try. My K Hornet likes .223s, and is similar to your rifle: it's a Savage 219, single-shot break-open action. I suspect that these rifle have limited inherent accuracy potential because of the two-part stock, but still a lot of fun.
Now that I've heard about the small pistol primer trick, I'm going back to the reloading bench!
remeber that some of the old Hornets were made for .223 bullets, not .224. Sierra still has .223 bullets, so give 'em a try. My K Hornet likes .223s, and is similar to your rifle: it's a Savage 219, single-shot break-open action. I suspect that these rifle have limited inherent accuracy potential because of the two-part stock, but still a lot of fun.
Now that I've heard about the small pistol primer trick, I'm going back to the reloading bench!
Vern Humphrey
Member
My experience with the Hornet is limited to bolt action rifles. I finally got sub 1/2" groups with my M82 Kimber. Here's how:
1. Fire form your brass. SAAMI Hornet chamber dimensions are sloppy, and the tapered form of the cartridge doesn't help.
2. Disturb the brass as little as possible. I use a Lee Collet Die and put two washers on the shell holder. This causes the collet to activate early, and only size about 0.2" of the neck. The rest of the neck acts as a pilot, centering the case in the chamber.
3. Use Hodgdon's Li'l Gun. I fill the case, tap it to settle the charge, then top it off and "strike" it (draw a straight edge across the case mouth.) I do not use small pistol primers. I have not found them to help with Li'l Gun (although they may help with some other powders.)
4. Load the bullet right into the rifling. I like the 35 grain Hornady V-Max because of its profile. It has a full-length shank and a short nose. This allows loading the shoulder close to the rifling, and still having an overall length that will feed through a magazine.
1. Fire form your brass. SAAMI Hornet chamber dimensions are sloppy, and the tapered form of the cartridge doesn't help.
2. Disturb the brass as little as possible. I use a Lee Collet Die and put two washers on the shell holder. This causes the collet to activate early, and only size about 0.2" of the neck. The rest of the neck acts as a pilot, centering the case in the chamber.
3. Use Hodgdon's Li'l Gun. I fill the case, tap it to settle the charge, then top it off and "strike" it (draw a straight edge across the case mouth.) I do not use small pistol primers. I have not found them to help with Li'l Gun (although they may help with some other powders.)
4. Load the bullet right into the rifling. I like the 35 grain Hornady V-Max because of its profile. It has a full-length shank and a short nose. This allows loading the shoulder close to the rifling, and still having an overall length that will feed through a magazine.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Khornet said:
That's correct. Hodgdon's people, after thinking it over, said, "You can't get enough Li'l Gun into a Hornet case to raise pressures dangerously."
The case is as accurate a dipper as any.
ThreadKiller
Member
Vern Humphrey said:
When I started to load for my Hornet, the powder search began and ended with Lil' Gun. Low pressure, high velocity (for a Hornet) and excellent accuracy with every bullet I've tried.
13 grs of Lil' Gun is pretty much a caseful in WW brass.
The little Hornady 35 Vmax's are a great bullet in the Hornet.
Tim
Vern Humphrey
Member
The 35 Grain V-Max is ideal for the Hornet. You can load it out far enough to touch the rifling, and it will still feed through the magazine. I get gilt-edge accuracy, and velocity over 3,000 fps.
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