Hot .38 Special
- Thread starter Mark_Mark
- Start date
- Status
Those marlins are finicky aren't they?
In my Rossi. I can shoot 180 WFN bullets anywhere from 38 SPL-360 DW overall length.
I've run thousands of 158 swc. In 38 special they can try to flip up too high of I'm running too hard.
I found more tissue damage from WFN than SWC. So think old Elmer wasn't right about everything.
.38 Special
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- Messages
- 7,366
Not trying to change your opinion, but A) so far as I know Keith was documented to have blown up a single gun, in his early 20s, and B) Keith was considered more of a "regular guy" compared with college professor O'Connor - and in fact, supporters and detractors could be divided up fairly well along the lines of white-collar guys for O'Connor and blue-collar guys for Keith.
If you're on the right track for hot 38s.
Just be careful with how you keep them stored.
I became paranoid about it after I got an ultra light.
Before that I made some Universal loads that actually made a 158 flat nose expand. I don't recommend it.
Blue Collar, White Collar irrelevant . I was really making a comment regarding Keith and hot reloading (He is known for that) as being Not safe. A little guy needing to prove something in My opinion. Perception of intellect makes no difference.
Please- I certainly didn’t make the comments to be argumentative in any way. The conversation was about 38-44 and how hot to reload it ….like Elmer.
In my opinion- not safe .
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr_Flintstone
Member
I think there are two different concepts being floated with a little overlap in-between. Some tend to think of Hot .38 Special as the high end of +P or even +P+. I believe others think of Hot .38 Special as .357 Magnum loaded in a .38 case. Either is fine when used in the appropriate situation. I am in the former camp as I like my rounds to be (at least) moderately safe if I accidentally load them in a .38 Special revolver. All of my guns are at least +P rated, so I don’t worry too much about heavy +P. I do worry about putting a .357 Magnum level .38 Special load (or .38 Magnum as I call them) into a .38 Special revolver. If you have all 38-44 capable or .357 Magnum guns then you won’t likely have to worry. Whatever you’re doing, just be safe.
I believe the Lyman 358429 mold was a design from The 30s. It was for the 38-44. A 170-173gr Bullet for the 38spl brass. It’s the Bullet designed for the Subject matter being discussed if anyone is considering a mold and casting.
I’m going to use it for 357 brass and see if I can get it to shoot accurate in a 686. Some say crimp at second groove… To fit certain cylinder.
Not sure if a 38 revolver will stabilize its weight at lower Fps. I’m sure someone tried it.
Found this from a member on another Post years ago. Very informative 38 spl - Heavy Boolet with Unique. Gotta be great from a 38spl trail Gun that you want penetration on.
I’m going to use it for 357 brass and see if I can get it to shoot accurate in a 686. Some say crimp at second groove… To fit certain cylinder.
Not sure if a 38 revolver will stabilize its weight at lower Fps. I’m sure someone tried it.
Found this from a member on another Post years ago. Very informative 38 spl - Heavy Boolet with Unique. Gotta be great from a 38spl trail Gun that you want penetration on.
Last edited by a moderator:
bluejay75
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2021
- Messages
- 426
5.5 is the absolute max. Do not exceed with heavier bullets.
bluejay75
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2021
- Messages
- 426
The point I’m making is that some guys throw charges. So 5.5 could be as high as 5.8 or as low as 5.2 from some powder measures with flake powder.
That load will work for any 158 ish SWC bullet because with the SWC design a lot of the bullet is out of the case. But the nose profile stays the same and the shank is longer on heavier bullets. There’s also a gazillion clones of this bullet which may have shorter noses and longer even longer shanks. Longer shank deeper in the case equals more pressure.
Look carefully at the billet he’s using before skipping right to this load.
That load will work for any 158 ish SWC bullet because with the SWC design a lot of the bullet is out of the case. But the nose profile stays the same and the shank is longer on heavier bullets. There’s also a gazillion clones of this bullet which may have shorter noses and longer even longer shanks. Longer shank deeper in the case equals more pressure.
Look carefully at the billet he’s using before skipping right to this load.
Sound advise- excellent information to the Novice and Experienced reloader.
Unique dosnt work well in throws from time to time. Yet that 173gr out of a Model 10, model 60 would be formidable…. yet I’ll try it in my 686 first, Or Marlin for that matter. Great trail ammo in a smaller revolver. A Hard cast 173gr 38 spl from 800-950 Fps depending on barrel length.
Ps- someone certainly would offer that boolet to someone that dosnt cast themselves.
“Hot 38spl” Ya I like that one.
Here - 170 hardcast available
Unique dosnt work well in throws from time to time. Yet that 173gr out of a Model 10, model 60 would be formidable…. yet I’ll try it in my 686 first, Or Marlin for that matter. Great trail ammo in a smaller revolver. A Hard cast 173gr 38 spl from 800-950 Fps depending on barrel length.
Ps- someone certainly would offer that boolet to someone that dosnt cast themselves.
“Hot 38spl” Ya I like that one.
Here - 170 hardcast available
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
Mark_Mark
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2021
- Messages
- 17,977
never understood the term “Boolet”
Bullet is in reference to a Jacket projectile
Boolet is a Cast.
Not exactly a industry term
Yet makes sense,
I’m pretty sure.
As in, The Boolet was a hot lead cast I made from Wheel weights and tin. Cheaper then those Jacketed Expensive ones ,so I can shoot twice as much.
Boolet is a Cast.
Not exactly a industry term
Yet makes sense,
I’m pretty sure.
As in, The Boolet was a hot lead cast I made from Wheel weights and tin. Cheaper then those Jacketed Expensive ones ,so I can shoot twice as much.
Last edited by a moderator:
bluejay75
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2021
- Messages
- 426
Great looking Boolit here! My preference actually. Looks like the NOE design. Which is what Elmer Keith said he wanted the modifications to be if he could change it. The shorter nose works in almost every cylinder.
I prefer WFN carrying the full diameter to near where the bullet contacts the cylinder. Larsen 165 (which casts at 170) and 185. I have owned nearly every 357 mold made at one time or another. Now I have multiples of the ones I mentioned.
Last edited:
Of the Molds I have - I want the 358429 to work the most…. As I’m usually a fan of the heavyweight for caliber. Tends to shoot more accurate and with less work. Also I’m usually target shooting or in woods after a 4 legged critter with bow or Long gun. Nice to have a heavy for caliber Boolet/Bullets ready on the hip
173gr hardcast
hot 38s in this 60-10 357 is just what the order calls for when roaming the hillsides. Should work well, Plus extracts nice with the 38 brass and a 3”.
Love the Powder coating- So easy to do and no lube smoke when shooting…. Plus of course no leading
“Baked-Not fried”
173gr hardcast
hot 38s in this 60-10 357 is just what the order calls for when roaming the hillsides. Should work well, Plus extracts nice with the 38 brass and a 3”.
Love the Powder coating- So easy to do and no lube smoke when shooting…. Plus of course no leading
“Baked-Not fried”
Last edited by a moderator:
Boomholzer
Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2021
- Messages
- 231
One never see much mention of CFE-P. Looks good on paper.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,081
I avoid bullets lighter than 135gr. in .38Spl. It's a waste of valuable resources.
If you want flame and fury, ditch the firearms and buy fireworks.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,081
Should - if you put the bullet where it needs to go. I tend to go for back-side-looking chest shot, try and rip up the heart muscle, and for that I prefer a heavy WFN-GC bullet in the 170-200gr. range - but, both the Sierra and Speer 158gr. JSP/JHC/JHP are all good bullets at 1200+fps inside 50 yards. 9.5gr. is at the top of the data for .38Spl but well inside safety margins, in my experience. I have pushed it higher with 200gr. gas-checked/hard-cast but there was no benefit. Waste of powder.
MacAR
Member
It's pretty peppy, to be sure. But I've not noticed any ill effects on either gun or brass when using it. Well, except on one occasion when I had a case break in the chamber of my 1866; I attribute that to cheap, thin brass rather than the loading since I had it happen one other time, using 3.5grs Bullseye under a 158 LSWC. Not a heavy load by any means, but it still resulted in a broken case. I personally feel that it's a safe load in any 38 Special gun, but I wouldn't subject an Airweight to a steady diet of them and label the boxes accordingly. My current label states "38/44 Heavy Duty; Not For Use in Light Revolvers" to hopefully keep me or anyone else from sticking them in a M10 or Airweight J-frame.
Mac
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,081
I have used 2400 heavy loads meant for the rifle or long-barrel revolver in a Detective Special. It don't hurt the gun. 9.5gr. of 2400 in a snub nose is just wasted hot gas.
MacAR
Member
Yes, yes it is. A lot of people don't realize that more powder ain't necessarily better. In my mind, Bullseye or W231 is a better powder for snub loads than 2400. Still, if it's all you got then load 'em up.
Mac
95% of my .38spl is loaded with wadcutters and Bullseye or Red Dot. Other than that I only load a few to "service" level, NO +P. If I want hotter I have a .357 waiting in the wings. But then, I consider the .38spl to be all I need for 95% of my shooting.
gwpercle
Member
My HOT 38 special load is a +P load ... it started out life as a regular 38 special load in the 1970 Speer #8 Loading Manual .
I bought a Ruger Blackhawk 38/357 that year and had buckets of free 38 special brass and wanted to load and shoot some cast lead 38 special loads . Unique powder was all i had back then, so Speer #8 was consulted : with a 158 grain Speer lead SWC or RN a starting load of 5.0 grs @ 898 fps and a Max. Load of 6.0 grains @ 1085 was indicated .
First thing was to buy a bullet mould ...Lyman #358156 a 155 gr. cast gas check design was selected ... gas check for "Magnum" Loads !
I did a little testing and settled on 5.2 grains of Unique w/ 155 gr. SWC w/ GC bullet (Lyman # 358156). Shot that load for 40+ years in the BH and various S&W K frames, Speer said it was a standard load ...1970 I believed them ! .
Low and Behold ...The 2010 Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #4 now tells me that load is in fact a 38 Special +P load .
Lyman shows a max Load 155 gr. ( #358156) with 5.4 grains of Unique @ 954 fps ...
Personally I find 5.2 grains of Unique to be very accurate and about as hot as I care to go in a 38 Special revolver ...shot in a 357 Magnum Blackhawk it's a walk in the park on a sunny day !
Gary
I bought a Ruger Blackhawk 38/357 that year and had buckets of free 38 special brass and wanted to load and shoot some cast lead 38 special loads . Unique powder was all i had back then, so Speer #8 was consulted : with a 158 grain Speer lead SWC or RN a starting load of 5.0 grs @ 898 fps and a Max. Load of 6.0 grains @ 1085 was indicated .
First thing was to buy a bullet mould ...Lyman #358156 a 155 gr. cast gas check design was selected ... gas check for "Magnum" Loads !
I did a little testing and settled on 5.2 grains of Unique w/ 155 gr. SWC w/ GC bullet (Lyman # 358156). Shot that load for 40+ years in the BH and various S&W K frames, Speer said it was a standard load ...1970 I believed them ! .
Low and Behold ...The 2010 Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #4 now tells me that load is in fact a 38 Special +P load .
Lyman shows a max Load 155 gr. ( #358156) with 5.4 grains of Unique @ 954 fps ...
Personally I find 5.2 grains of Unique to be very accurate and about as hot as I care to go in a 38 Special revolver ...shot in a 357 Magnum Blackhawk it's a walk in the park on a sunny day !
Gary
I like the MBC 180 WFN. I want to get the same mold so I can cast them softer. But they are the most accurate load I've shot from my Rossi.
I also like quartering shots. I prefer shooting just inside the near shoulder exiting just behind the offside shoulder. The deer usually flip over instead of running.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
