How can I defend myself in my car?

[The Deer Hunter]

So I was just thinking about this. I do think about it time to time but I figure there isn't much I can do.

But recently I got a job in a city, and I seem to be spending more time in the area.

What I am concerned about is being attacked inside my Jeep, at a red light or a traffic jam. Now my Jeep is 16 years old, and all the locks are broken. I am looking into getting them to work, but for right now my doors do not lock (they certainly do not lock when they are off). Also, my doors don't open from the inside. The handle is broken on one side and the connection rods are screwed up on the other.

I am only 18, and in Massachusetts, I cannot legally carry until I am 21. I cannot have any type of firearm that is in my direct control either. Now I have a 12" piece of steel pipe that I use as a socket wrench extension (breaker bars are expensive), but I keep it in the Jeep as it is the best defense I have. I also carry a small pocket folder.

I have thrown around the idea of pepper sray, or a stun gun, but they don't really seem viable. Stun guns don't have much lasting effect. I have a small 100,000 volt hand held, and while it hurts to be touched by it, it's not going to deter a determined criminal. I am afraid the OC "fog" stuff is going to blow in my face, and blind me. The liquid OC stream type sprays don't seem be work very well either, because you have to get them right in an opening to really get them.

I keep up a defensive, though. Whenever I am at a stop light, I keep at least 1 cars length between me and the car in front of me. This gives me some acceleration room in the event I need to push some other cars in order to leave the area. I also try not getting stuck in the middle of big 3 lane traffic stops, because that blocks me in. I also park with as much space around me as possible. If I am at a parking lot, I park out back away from other obstacles. I do this because it makes it harder for someone to block me in.

I would appreciate input...Am I doing things right?

 

[Grump]

I like the accelerator and the brake pedal as needed, coordinated with the steering wheel. You're already doing most of what can be done.

I personally prefer the idea of a palm-grip electro-stun, combined with "sticky hands" style martial arts. If they're close enough to touch, it's fair game.

Think improvised weapons. That moving bus could come in quite handy.

Since it's a Jeep, always wear a sturdy "trooper" hat or anything else to harden the noggin-target.

 

[withdrawn34]

Other than trying to keep an escape route open, and then liberally applying throttle and dropping the clutch, there's not too much you can do, unfortunately.

Even then, being in say, rush hour traffic, its hard to have any sort of escape route, regardless of how much space you leave. In some areas of the countries, there are hard concrete barriers on either side of the highway, along with big fences. Try escaping from that one.

Luckily most places in Florida have large grassy medians and shoulders along the highway and many roads; unfortunately, running in an open grass field doesn't do one much good either.

 

[mgkdrgn]

This should do the trick.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/232777.stm

 

[Daniel1120]

Umm sounds like you need to tear down your door panels and reatach some lock and handle rods. SUPER easy on your jeep, if you've ever put in a set of speakers you should be able to do this no problem. If the little plastic clips they go into are broken, just head to the dealership to get new ones for cheap.

Sorry I didn't answer the question, but it sounds like you are already doing something smart by leaving space between cars. It would be a great idea to do a visual 360 of the area before you get out of your car too.

 

[sm]

I am only 18, and in Massachusetts, I cannot legally carry until I am 21. I cannot have any type of firearm that is in my direct control either.

This is a great S&T Topic!

We have a thread where "gun" is not going to be the default answer. Hot diggety-damn!!

These are real concerns folks have for sons and daughter under age 21, and for those living in restrictive parts of the USA, and our members in other countries such as UK, New Zealand, and elsewhere.


1. Don't look like prey, think like a criminal.

Get rid of any advertising on vehicle that attracts attention or gives "persceptions".

a. License plate frames ("Forget 911- I dial .357") and forget specialty plates like
"IPSC" , "Gun Nut" , BNK MGR, RICH KD,

b. window stickers advertising anything from Guns, Hunting Clubs, Stereo, Computer, ...

You want to blend in not stick out. Not flashy, and not that ugly.
So wash the vehicle after going hunting to remove mud and take the visitor temp parking hang doo-dad off the rear view mirror after going to the Country Club you were invited to.

You are "there", but you are not seen or remembered.

2. Adjust Mirrors PROPERLY.
If the vehicle does not have a passenger side mirror, get one. Aftermarket will work.

Mirrors are adjusted for Driver, not passengers. Passengers, you ride, and pay attention, do not mess with the mirrors, except the pull down on visor on passenger side.

Driver, the proper adjustment for mirrors is the rear view giving view of the rear, not trying to see up Betty Sue's mini skirt sitting in the back seat.

Side Mirrors. Sit up, hands at 3 & 9 or 10 & 4 on steering wheel like they are supposed to be.
Mirrors are not to run along side of vehicle giving view of door handles, or to see if gas tank door is shut.

Adjust on outward to give you a full view of what is along side you and on back along side you.
You will not see the sides of your vehicle, but you will have view (better view) of blind spots, and the lanes to either side.

This allows one to see trouble before it reaches you, and assists in evading trouble if it show up.

3. Wear good shoes when driving.
Replace worn brake and clutch pedal covers. For manual transmission drivers this is real important, and I even suggest a new accelerator pedal cover.

You need to be in control of the vehicle, and keep in mind shoe soles and pedals will not always be dry, as rain, mud, snow can affect control feet have on pedals.

4. Leave distance between you and vehicle ahead when at a stop, about car length.
Turn down the friggin' radio and pay attention, and listen, not hear, listen to what is going around you, and use the Properly adjusted mirrors.

Bad guys will take advantage of cranked up music,and run up using blind spots, that improperly adjusted mirrors will not reveal to a driver.


Weapon?
The light economy cars weight at least 1800 pounds. Use the vehicle.
Use that hole you left in front, and make a hole and use the mirrors to assist.

Note: This is where I get yelled at by everyone. I hate air bags.

I would rather have a 5 point harness system than a air bag. Those bags will go off sometimes with just a 5 mph "bump". When they do, it is a akin to a 12 ga shotgun going off in your face.
Naturally one reacts by bringing arm(s) up to protect themselves, and those bags will break an arm, or wrist.

Trust me on this.

So your 16 year old daughter with the defensive lessons she has so far, does everything right and the stupid air bag impedes her total safety.

Maybe she just gets followed and gets bumped from the rear hard enough on a two lane blacktop, by some boys/men with evil intent, and it is dark, secluded area, and they can take a box cutter, cut the bag, seat belt, and off in the woods have their way...
She is dazed, arm/wrist busted, and has a hard time fighting...

Parents let being parents get in the way of thinking clearly of what is "safe" for a kid.

If you have to drive a car with air bags, do like pilots do. Keep a knife handy to cut yourself free. Neck knife, even a $2 disposable box cutter will work just fine. The knife has to be where hands can access when that bag goes off.
The knife is a simple tool, legal for any jurisdictions.
For School Restricted areas - Bandage Scissors are the ticket.

This tool stays in the vehicle, and is for the driver, whomever is driving the vehicle.
Additional bandage scissors are a good idea for passengers to use. Not toys, not Internet topics of discussions, something to get that bag deflated and cut a belt if need to assist in staying safe.

We did a deal one time, where we bumped a vehicle in a parking lot. The lesson was taking down a armed, adult male, with valuables in a brief case.
Air bag deployed, and I forget the time, but it was fast , busting a window with a automatic center punch, snatching that briefcase and gone.

He was pinned behind the air bag, he could not even access his gun.

*just thoughts*



Mental Game first, then learn to run the vehicle you have, and use the vehicle.

There is nothing wrong with laying on the horn, and driving to fire station, or a parking lot with a cop(s) sitting on the lot...similar.

 

[franconialocal]

Options

TASER C-3 (Civilian version of the police taser)
Spyderco Knives

 

[VegasOPM]

Skinny pedal on the right. Remaining aware of what is going on around you is the best defense at all times. Defensive driving is at its core a function of elevating awareness of your surroundings. If something doesn't look right- it isn't. If someone approaches your car without a reason, steer in the direction of the gap that you should have left. If they have a weapon- so do you! A 1 million grain projectile at 25fps will do a lot more destruction than a 230 grain projectile at 850fps.

I was at an intersection at a bad part of town in Las Vegas several years ago. I noticed a group of several dicey characters walking across the street one by one very slowly in front of a couple of cars- while I was several blocks away. While I was approaching (no turn off was available) they seemed to take a great interest in my car. I stopped 50 yds away to let them finish crossing the street and they just stood there while more scumbags approached from behind while reaching for something in their waistbands. At that point I just floored the gas and aimed for the center of the intersection- they scattered. They looked pretty confused as I drove off.

I had a gun in the car- but the car itself is a much more decisive weapon than a .38.

 

[conw]

I haven't read all the way through SM's post yet, he may have covered this.

Even with a gun in my car, I can't see firing a shot UNLESS someone has a weapon pointed RIGHT at me and my car is off or I'm blocked in from moving the car and can't get out. Shooting from the car is just not a very good DEFENSIVE strategy, so you're actually not at a very big defensive disadvantage sans gun while operating a vehicle (going to and from is a different story, IMO).

Driving around, I make sure to leave room just as you do.

Strategy 1 is escape from threat(s) using vehicle
Strategy 2 is use vehicle as weapon against threats (note that I carry a gun, but I would prefer to use my car as a weapon if it came down to it)
Strategy 3, if I cannot escape or use my vehicle as a weapon and I am being fired upon, is to get the H out of the vehicle and sprint. At 18 you can probably do the same.

Box of truth, a great site, has a great article on cars vs bullets. Bullets tend to penetrate - even buckshot, .32/.380, etc. You don't wanna be "framed" and a sitting duck target as someone fills your car with rounds. Yes, this is a worst case scenario, but you should GET OUT OF THE CAR if you can't drive off or use the vehicle as a weapon against someone shooting at you. I guarantee you a bobbing, ducking, weaving, sprinting 18 year old is a hell of a lot harder to hit than an 18 year old sitting in his jeep not going anywhere.

On a side rant, this is why I think it's funny that some guys have "car holsters." (To be fair, I am limber unlike some and can access my ccw from a seated, belted-in position.) I can't think of a scenario where you would be shooting FROM the car where it wouldn't be a better idea to leave in the car, use the car as a weapon, or run. And if I run I don't want to have my carry weapon stuck in a "car holster."

YMMV

 

[conw]

sm wrote:

RICH KD

Oh man, I thought of you the other day...saw two nice advertisements from people looking to get robbed.

-EYE Dx & Rx
-GOT JWLRY?

 

[Pussywillow]

According to some Australian mental health groups, the greatest number of people with mental illness are aged between 18 and 24 years, with 14 per cent of Australian children and adolescents suffering from some sort of illness.

While I can think of a few situataions where one may be required to shoot from a vehicle... most of them do not apply to a single individual in their own vehicle. It's a last resort if it becomes necessary. [Some carjacking or kidnapping scenarios have the perps using their own vehicle(s) to block the victim into their space. It's rather rare for the average street-slob to be this well organized or motivated.]

I heartily agree that using the veicle as a two-ton bullet or bailing & beating feet is preferrable to "shooting it out" in virtually every case. I haven't seen too many car-holsters that appeared to me to make access all that much easier than simply leaning over & pulling the pistol from my holster.

Specialized carjacking holsters are handy... until you go to transfer the weapon for standard carry. The perma-holsters in the car bother me for the reasons mentioned... and the simple fact that some LEO's may get a bit excited when they see. Plus it's not even legal in a lot of states.

 

[AKGuy]

Living in "commercial fishing wonderland" as I do, I've seen some wicked looking stuff in the commercial fishing supply stores around here. Various styles of fishing gaff hooks (straight, barbed, bladed, whatever) come to mind. Shorten up the handles if you need to and go for throat, ear, or eye...

 

[WardenWolf]

A carjacker is far more likely to strike a person in the right lane, not the middle or left lane. Why? Because it's easier for him to just step off the curb without having to walk out into the street where he's surrounded by people on either side. The left lane is slightly vulnerable, not not nearly as much. Nobody likes to stand in the middle of the street. The middle lane is the safest as it provides no easy access from either side.

You have to think like a carjacker: you're probably not going to go after the targets that are the most difficult and most dangerous to get. You're going to go after the ones right next to the curb. The most important thing you can do is keep your doors locked and be aware of your surroundings. It doesn't strike most people to check their mirrors while they're stopped, which means a potential carjacker could walk behind your vehicle and walk up right to your door without you knowing. Pay close attention to jaywalkers or people crossing at crosswalks. If you see one turn and start heading for your door, get your weapon or hit the gas.

 

[ConstantineJ9]

I got a new bumper sticker a couple of weeks ago: Gun control is being able to hit your target. Kinda sends off the wrong signals to cops since it's on my Honda Accord, Lol.

 

[Grassman]

You might be hearing this problem more and more if the gun grabbers have their way. "How do I defend myself?"

 

[WardenWolf]

Grassman, stop. Just stop. There's enough threads on this already. This is totally unrelated and the man is asking a valid question.

 

[ConstantineJ9]

Well, I find my allumanum T-ball bat is good company when in my car. and it's light and short, that's why I picked it over the others, plus it's black and has gold lettering.

 

[AKGuy]

Here's a couple examples of what I'm talkin' about... I'd hate to have one of these pullin' my trachea inside out, or buried deep into my ear/skull...

 

[zombienerd]

Are pump air guns illegal to have in the car? A shot to the face with a properly pumped Crossman Powermaster 66 sawed down would stop any attacker. Even if you miss, he's going to run at the sight of it.

I had a good friend in GA who carried his sawed off air rifle with him next to his right hand in the truck... Pumped 20 times, cocked with pellet in chamber. He was in Milledgeville, at a red light, and some idiot came at him with a knife, he had the pellet gun out the window before the guy was within 5 feet, and popped him in the chest... The guy doubled over and my buddy sped off. I can't imagine it was a lethal shot, but I'm sure it freaking hurt.

 

[sm]

Folks, once again, we need to keep in mind folks are restricted with regard to firearms.

-Persons under the age of 21.
-Areas of the US that do not allow CCW.
-Our Int'l members, such as in the UK.
-Folks that commute and work on campus such as Military Bases.

Folks, "wear the darn gun" is advisable. The reality is, sometimes the gun is not even allowed to be part of the tool box.

Folks, especially you parents, take prudent steps for defensive driving lessons.

And I don't mean the HS class, or the one where the kid drives around town in a car with a "Student Driver" sign plastered on the vehicle.

Find a good defensive driving class and take it, and parents, send your kids, heck go with them and take it together.

Budget. Yes I respect the fact some folks just do not have the money, or vacation time.

Do you know a seasoned Law Enforcement Officer, Chauffeur, Someone that has had defensive driving training? Offensive /Assertive BodyGuard driving training.
How about someone you trust that drives Road Rallly, Dirt Track, or Demolition Derby?

Get the teenager some real deal defensive, assertive, and offensive driving skills.

These skills are not just for criminals , these skills are life skills for being on the road.

I keep saying guns are not the answer to every serious situation.

Inclement weather, a vehicle has a boat , or trailer come un-hitched from a trailer hitch, a 18 wheeler has a tire blow ("alligator"), some drunk is on the wrong side of the freeway...etc.
What good is a darn gun in these situations?

If nothing else get with a relative, or good friend that lives in a rural area and has a old beater farm, ranch truck.

Get some big cardboard boxes, like refrigerators, washer, dryers and other appliances come in.

Parents sigh, and get upset when the kids backs into a trash can. The teenager was unaware, and not expecting it. This adds some things to this "driving stuff".

Now tell a teenager, to "graze" or "hit" or "move" something on purpose with a vehicle, this ...the human brain and body are programmed this is something you do not do.

It might be a box a dryer came in, still telling a kid to hit reverse, and nail the gas to move that box back, then hit Drive/First Gear and hit the gas and "graze" , or "scoot along side" another box to "make a hole and haul butt", is a bit unnerving.

Just like it was the first time one had to shoot a firearm after a buzzer went off, or some instructor was yelling "shoot, move, shoot, scoot, ...".


Young folks, all this defensive driving might sound really cool, I assure you it will scare the living daylights out of you when you are in a car with two steering wheels, and some instructor driving puts you in a spin, or some other maneuver and lets go of the steering wheel on his side and says " now you get us out of this".

Or

Under controlled lessons, with real vehicles, and real gun fire being fired near, into safe backstop, other persons in cars bump, even ram the vehicle you are in, firing wax bullets at you and - you have to do something.
You may have a gun this lesson, you may not.
Still the lesson is to take an action, and get out of the death zone.


In real life, I have evaded real threats. Just the nature of what I was doing.

I know others that have been targeted for no other reason than their vehicle was like another.

We had one young lady 19 years old take the CCW class, and some other lessons.
The CCW was for the legal aspects, and she we did not charge her for her participation. She even did the range time, and did very well.

The vehicle he was in, was sorta like another. At night it was "similar enough" to be mistake for a vehicle like some grandparents of a fella.
This fella went to jail, and did time, and he resented the fact his grandparents "would not help him".

So he and his buds were going to "teach" grandparent(s) a lesson and then when it was not them, but a "girl" the game plan changed to how some boys could have fun with a girl.

Autonomous system kicked in for this young lady. Fight or Flight, and she chose to "fight" her way with a vehicle , to "flight".

She was doing "bumper cars" to make a hole. When she did get a hole, she took off ...
She did not realize she had been shot at.
.22 rim-fire ctgs will penetrate a vehicle's sheet metal, so will 32ACP and 380ACP.
She never heard the shots, or heard them hitting the vehicles metal. One round of 32ACP went through the trunk, through back seat, through front seat, lodged into firewall after going through the glove box, and the papers inside.

 

[innerpiece]

some great advice..

But I think the best advice for you is find a route to work that is less threatening (longer or not, that shouldnt matter if yer saftey is concerned!)..

Fix your locks, yes.. keep your defence up, yes.. be observant, yes..
but most of all.. find the safest way to get from point A, to point B.

preparing youreself for a defensive situation is smart. doing all you can to AVOID a defensive situation is smarter!

If someone is shooting at you, and your inside your car, just drive, and fast! just go!

if you sence a threat while your in your car.. just GO!


ip.

 

[Grey_Mana]

1 - do you need all the doors to work, if the locks are broken? Fixing the door is great, but welding is monkey-easy. If you can legally weld your passenger door shut, that is a shut door.

2 - if you can't properly fix the door locks, can you jury rig something? Like a latch on the inside? (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=50185-1277-SP1261&lpage=none)

3 - don't be so down on peppper spray. Buy a $20 bottle and try it out (yes, waste it) - there are good products available.

4- baseball bat is a good idea. Pick one up at the thrift store, and be sure to get a catcher's mitt and a ball. Having a bat in a car = dangerous weapon = looking for trouble = bad in the eyes of the law (depending on the state, so I'm presuming). But bat + mitt + ball = legitimate reason to have a bat in your car.

5-Box cutter is also an option.

 

[Claude Clay]

mirrors adjusted for no blind spot as said above.
seat belt is a weapon; slide left hand between chest and belt and when released pivot elbow--the arc ending with the metal of the buckle and 'his' face.
always use mirror to monitor the car behind you--verify he is stopping properly.
look at the car in front of the car in front of you--do what he does and you are ahead of the reaction/time events.
situational awareness moves with your car--minimize distractions.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Umm sounds like you need to tear down your door panels and reatach some lock and handle rods. SUPER easy on your jeep, if you've ever put in a set of speakers you should be able to do this no problem. If the little plastic clips they go into are broken, just head to the dealership to get new ones for cheap.

They are actually metal on mine...I keep putting them in too far/too short so they pop out. That's the pass. side, though. The driver's side door handle is just broken...I need a new one.

I have a bit of a contingency list for the heep...I'm trying to find time to replace the broken windshield hinges, and fortunately fall semester is over tomorrow D).

1. Don't look like prey, think like a criminal.

I don't think I do...Big Jeep, big guy...I don't mean to brag, but if I were a car jacker I would probably not try to jack me. That's just me, though.

You want to blend in not stick out. Not flashy, and not that ugly.
So wash the vehicle after going hunting to remove mud and take the visitor temp parking hang doo-dad off the rear view mirror after going to the Country Club you were invited to.

You are "there", but you are not seen or remembered.

I try to get the mud off (the rain is sure helping...) but it's some kind of mud magnet...Plus with all the holes in the body I can't bring it through the car washes.

Also, I try to blend in, but it's hard for me...It's got 33"x12.5" tires and a couple inches lift...It's not much but it really does stand out. I think it is subtle enough though to blend in to people who aren't looking for me.

I have one sticker (Deer skull ), and a bottle opener on the back but that's about it. And the tire cover ("only in a jeep" smiley), but I don't think that counts.

2. Adjust Mirrors PROPERLY.
If the vehicle does not have a passenger side mirror, get one. Aftermarket will work.

The previous owner put aftermarket junk mirrors on the windshield hinges (so you can take the doors off). I removed one and the other is hanging there for legal purposes.

They are on the list, but that is a long list. The windshield hing relocated mirrors are incredibly expensive, too.

3. Wear good shoes when driving.
Replace worn brake and clutch pedal covers. For manual transmission drivers this is real important, and I even suggest a new accelerator pedal cover.

I usually wear work boots or running shoes. It is a standard, and the pedal covers are pretty shot but I haven't noticed it a problem. I don't think I have ever had my foot slip on anything except for the bent E-brake (Also on the list).

I don't know if there is a lot of options for new pedal covers besides.

4. Leave distance between you and vehicle ahead when at a stop, about car length.

Turn down the friggin' radio and pay attention, and listen, not hear, listen to what is going around you, and use the Properly adjusted mirrors.

I do leave distance...My radio usually isn't blaring either.

Weapon?
The light economy cars weight at least 1800 pounds. Use the vehicle.
Use that hole you left in front, and make a hole and use the mirrors to assist.

Note: This is where I get yelled at by everyone. I hate air bags.

I would rather have a 5 point harness system than a air bag. Those bags will go off sometimes with just a 5 mph "bump". When they do, it is a akin to a 12 ga shotgun going off in your face.
Naturally one reacts by bringing arm(s) up to protect themselves, and those bags will break an arm, or wrist.

My jeep does not have airbags. I don't know if they existed in 1991, either.


And by the way, I'm not welding my door shut. That is a really stupid idea. What if someone is going to be going somewhere with me? It would be really inconvenient for the passenger.

 

[rockhound758]

What about a tire-thumper like truckers use? Short, hard, easy to wield within a car...I'D sure hate to get hit by one...will break bones for sure.