How can it be more humid inside my safe?!

[Monkeyleg]

I posed this question over on "Firearms Accessories," but only got one reply.

The humidity level in my safe has been running close to 50% the last couple of weeks. I had one 12" GoldenRod in there, and bought another 18" model to add to that.

When it's humid outside, the level in the safe is lower. But on dry days like today, the level in the safe is eight or ten percent higher than in the room. Right now I'm leaving the safe door open to bring the level down.

What's going on?

 

[Steve Smith]

Time delay inside your sealed safe. Carpet, wood, and such will reflect the humidity of days past rather than today's conditions. You don't smoke cigars, do you?

 

[PAshooter]

Agree with Steve. Problem is made worse if your safe is firelined. Many safes use gypsum as the fire protection material. This protects against heat damage two ways - first because it acts as a fireproof insulator and second because it retains moisture, which in case of a fire absorbs a tremendous amount of heat in the process of turning to steam. My firelined gun safe even warned against storing papers within because of the damage the moisture emitted by the firelining might do. Cripes! Damage to papers? What about my guns... seeing as it's a gun safe and all.

I do two things to help minimize the problem. First thing I did was buy an inexpensive temp/humidity gauge off the internet... best $20 I ever spent, as it gives me an accurate indication of what the humidity really is (none of that blue & pink dot crap). Then I:

1) Keep gobs of dessicant bags in the safe, watch the humidity carefully, and bake the bags when it spikes up.

2) As you suggested - open the safe on dry days (plentiful in the winter hereabouts, but scarce as hen's teeth in the summer).

BTW - I don't know what a "good" humidity level for a gun safe is (I've asked... never got a good answer) but mine runs in the low 30's in the winter and around 50% in the summer. Of course here in MD the ambient runs about 85%+ in the summer when we're not air conditioning. No rust so far... knock wood

 

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks for the replies. The safe isn't fire-proofed, but it does have carpeting on the shelves, and I was thinking that carpeting as well as other things in the safe could retain moisture.

Steve, what do cigars have to do with it? (Hmmm, that sounds like a re-write of an old Tina Turner song). But, no, I don't smoke cigars. Just enough cigarettes to fill a small wastebasket every day.

 

[fish2xs]

Cigars...

Cigars are best kept at 70 degrees F, and about 70% relative humidity. If you enjoy cigars, and smoke enough of them, you have a humidor with which you regulate temp and humidity.


If you smoke cigars, then you probably know all about humidity tricks of the trade.


That reminds me, I haven't had a poker night in a while....

-p

 

[Ol' Badger]

Are the guns "HOT"

 

[Steve Smith]

Fish2xs got it, but I prefer mine at 65% RH.

I use a 50 qt cooler as a humidor. I store about 90% of my cigars in the spanish cedar boxes they come in. The cedar retains moisture and also protects the cigars when I rifle through the cooler. If the cooler starts to drop in RH, It will drop slowly, and has little to do with the outside RH, even though I open it once a week for about 10 minutes to remove my week's supply of stogies. When I add water to the humidifier, it will take a day or two to really come up.

A new shipment of cigars can dramatically change the RH, depending on how "wet" the supplier keeps them, and how many I receive.

 

[zahc]

Goldenrods just set up convection. Use goldenrod+dessicant chunks to reduce humidity.


Oh, and the humidity in the safe is from the moisture leaching out of your pretty wood gunstocks as they warp and crack. Sick, ain't I?

 

[Monkeyleg]

zahc, the only wood on any guns in the safe are the grips on the pistols and revolvers. All the long guns are black.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

So your safe is dryer than ambient conditions when the ambient conditions have higher humidity and vice versa. The salient question here pertains to the percentage humidity in the safe. It may be that your safe is trapping moisture. What that means is that is isn't being very influenced by outside ambient conditions.

It is also possible that materials in the safe (such as the cloth or carpet linings actually absorb moisture from the air if you safe is not sealed. Those materials will not rise to the ambient outside conditions very quickly and so the amounts are lower than outside. When the outside humidity drops, the materials release some of their moisture and hence the humidity inside is higher than outside.

zahc is right about products like Golden Rods. A lot of people think they lower the humidity in the safe, hence the contents don't rust. Unfortunately, this isn't supported in reality. Golden Rods have no way of collecting the humidity and removing it from the interior of the safe. Whatever amount of humidity that is in the safe when it is closed (assuming good seals) will remain the same. The convection of the Golden Rods simply help prevent the moisture of the humidity from settling on the contents. To actually lower the humidity, you have to have some means of removal. As noted, dessicant works for this. Short of that, you could try installing a dehumidifier. That would require a hole for the power cord and being enlarged for, or a new hole cut for draining away the moisture it collects. Of course then you are going to need a drain for the water coming out of the safe.

 

[JohnBT]

According to the Goldenrod site, they are supposed to be used in a container with ventilation holes top and bottom. Or a loose safe door, I suppose. This allows the expanding warmer moist air to escape.

After seeing this thread yesterday morning I did a little measuring with a digital gauge from Radio Shack. It even has a memory feature and pushbutton light and was only $20.


Outside - 66*F and 87% humidity when I started measuring. Then we had another downpour. It's rained here 9 Saturdays in a row and a lot of other days, too.

Basement - 68*F and 72% humidity.
With most of the windows in the house open all night the cool damp air ends up in the basement(The kitchen door to the basement stays open so the cat can roam.) The basement is pretty much the way it was built 87 years ago - bare concrete floor and bare solid brick walls. The only warmth during the summer is from the pilot light on the gas boiler and the hot water tank, but it's wrapped in insulation. All but a foot and a half of the basement is below grade. Think cave.

Big Liberty safe - 72*F and 58% humidity.
2 Goldenrods - 24" & 18". The door is not sealed. Try the refrigerator door gasket test - close your safe door on a dollar bill and see if you can pull it out or if it's easy to slide it around.


Having used the memory feature from time to time, I know that the humidity in the safe ranges from 50% to 60% and is always lower than the basement reading. The temp reading in the safe is always 3 or 4 degrees higher.

I initially worried about the 60% reading, but then realized that the small safe on the second floor has been exposed to our usual summers - 90+ degree days and high humidity - and a small Goldenrod has worked there for years. I have AC, I just like big windows, 10-foot ceilings and fans.

Time to go to the range

John...current outside readings - 65*F and sunny with 73% humidity.

 

[Edward429451]

Humidity flows from wet to dry. Temperature has a lot to do with the corresponding dew point of when the humidity condenses from vapor to liqued, as well as the ambient humidity level.

Kind of guessing here as I dont know where your safe is located. Cool basement or garage? Suppose your safe is in a cool basement. Suppose the temp in basement drops at night. The temp inside safe slowly drops due to insulation. In the morning, the house gets warmer, but the safe which has finally cooled off is still cool inside b/c of the insulation. (ever notice how alot of times in the AM your house is cooler than the outside ambient?) So your safe is cool inside and the basement air has now warmed up. Your dessicant has absorbed a bunch of humidity already. Then if your safe has some minor air leaks, or if you come down to retrieve your pistol and open the safe, humidity rushes in with the warm air and towards the lower humidity level, and you close the safe again. The air in the safe has just been warmed up and more humidity added also. Do that for a few days and suddenly the dessicant is maxxed out. Then tonight the temp is cold and you forgot to turn on the furnace cause it was pretty warm still when you went to bed. Overnight the safe temp drops below the dew point and the overloaded dessicant begins to weep, releasing the humidity inside the safe air and deposits it evenly on the safe contents surfaces. That night the safe has had time to warm up again (above dew point) slowly so the humidity has had time to vaporize again, so you dont see the condensation when you open the safe (again adding more warm air & humidity) and its cold tonight also. Same cycle repeats again. 3 or 4 monthes of this and suddenly you get the urge to handle the prize collectable in the back of the safe which you hardly ever do since you dont want to scratch it from too much handling etc., and when you take it out, it has surface rust all over it. (What happened? I use dessicant.!!)

Point is, you'll protect your guns in the safe more by being able to control the temperature in the safe, rather than just keeping dessicant in there and 'figuring they'll be safe'. Unless you bake your dessicant religiously and frequently, its a false sense of security and is still no guarentee against rust.

Do a search for 'dew point chart' and you'll find a lot of information on the subject. If you see dew on the grass in the AM, go wipe down your guns. Keep the air in the safe above the dew point for the ambient air/humidity and you'll never need dessicant. Dessicant is really only effective if there is air flow anyway, which safes don't have.

 

[Edward429451]

If you get a type 'K' thermocouple (basically a temp probe which looks like a wire) you can close the safe on the wire, leaving the 'sensor' inside the safe all night and come down in the morning and hook up your temp meter/multitester (w/temp readin capability) and get a temp reading inside the safe before opening the door and destroying your accurate reading by the influx of warm air.

Good luck.

 

[agony]

I keep a Goldenrod in my safe. It would never get below 50% humidity. Then I noticed rust on one of my Longguns. I added a dehumidifier to my gun room, and the humidity stays around 40%. Then I added a large sac of dessicant to the floor of my safe, and use CLP Collector on my rarely fired guns. No rust.