How close are the 30 carbine and 327 Federal Magnum?

[Mr_Flintstone]

I realize one is a rimmed straight wall cartridge, and the other is a rimless tapered cartridge, but ballistically speaking, how close are they. The reason I ask is that I had been wanting a Marlin model 62 lever gun, but I saw that Henry has a new production lever gun in 327 magnum; and I like the classic lines of the Henry better. The straight walled cartridge would also be easier to reload I believe.

So, from the perspective of a 16-20 inch barrel lever gun, how close is the 30 carbine to the 327 magnum?

 

[Jeff White]

I’m going to move this to Rifle Country where the lever gun guys will see it.

 

[Goosey]

From BallisticsByTheInch:

.327 Federal Magnum (18" barrel)
85 gr Federal Hydra-Shok......1910 fps
100 gr American Eagle JSP....2186 fps
115 gr Speer Gold Dot............1880 fps

.30 Carbine is usually pushing a 110 gr at about 1950 +/- 50 fps from an 18" barrel.

 

[eastbank]

neither are close enough for me to sell my 32-20,s, 85gr bullet at 2200 fps and a 100gr bullet at 2100 fps. eastbank.

 

[js8588]

Close enough that I badly want Ruger to release a semi auto in 327 Federal.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I would do the .327 as you have more reloading options there and should also be able to run the H&R Mag in it. Plus, I'm a 32 fan. The 30 Carbine made a lot of sense when cheap surplus was around but that isn't the case now.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning
No critter out there will know the difference when it gets hit in the same place by either one.
Get the Henry ... we have never been disappointed with any of them. Plus they possibly have the Best customer relations going today.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I have an M1 carbine, and that's what got me wanting the Marlin, but I also got a 32 H&R revolver. I currently reload both, and the 32 is easier, just because the tapered case of the 30 is harder to size, and you have to trim. From the data above, there's not enough difference between the two to worry about. I'm thinking the Henry is the way to go. I may even add a 327 revolver later.

 

[BSA1]

Since your are a reloader follow eastbank's suggestion and go with the 32-20. The 32 and 327 Magnums are wannabes especially in a rifle.

The 32-20 is not more difficult to reload than a straight wall case. It does require a extra step to lube the cases first (which is easy with Hornady One-Shot spray lube). I reload it on a single stage press and take a extra second or two to ensure the case is lined up correctly when pulling the handle. Over many thousands of rounds I have only crunched the case mouth of one round.

Straight wall rounds like the 32 and 327 will never be as reliable feeding and ejection as the bottleneck like the 32-20.

I will stack the accuracy of my 32-20 rifle and pistol against any 32 and 327 Magnum.

 

[dieselchief]

yes the 32 20 is a better feeding, more accurate and more powerful. however if you are not lucky enough to have one, you cannot blame a guy for going what is available nowadays.
....ps I feel the same about the 44 40 versus the 45 colt. dc

 

[SteadyD]

Is the 327 Federal Magnum up to the task of taking deer when shot from a rifle, or would it be insufficient? I don't own a rifle in 327, nor do I have plans to use one as such, just curious what you folks think.

 

[eastbank]

I have a ruger single six and a marlin 32 mag cow boy rifle, bottom rifle(I never fired it) and i reload for the revolver, but the 32-20 is better to me. eastbank.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Marlin Model 62 Levermatic in .30 Carbine
v
Henry lever action in .327 Federal Magnum

The Marlin 62 was made from 1963–1969 in .256 Winchester Magnum and .30 Carbine, short stroke lever action, box magazine fed.

Ignoring ballistics and looking at the perspective of maintaining a 16-20" barrel lever gun, the out-of-production Marlin 62 could be hard to find repair parts if something wears out or breaks; I am not sure Remington supports the old out-of-production Marlin models. As a current production model with Henry customer support, the Henry lever action sounds like a better choice, solely on maintainability.

 

[js8588]

Is the 327 Federal Magnum up to the task of taking deer when shot from a rifle, or would it be insufficient? I don't own a rifle in 327, nor do I have plans to use one as such, just curious what you folks think.

~1000ft/lbs at the muzzle out of a long gun?

Yeah, it's up to the task inside 100 yards.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I'm also looking at buying a lever gun. Because I already reload 357 I'm going with that. It's a pretty versatile cartridge and it's velocity potential is impressive. I won't say what that velocity is but reloading manuals have very conservative 357 data. Some new powders have expanded our universe.

327 in my opinion is a nice compromise but one that will never be very popular. That's not to say you shouldn't buy one because after shooting a 30 carbine so much I can't see how anyone couldn't have a boat load of fun with a carbine and that cartridge.

 

[hdwhit]

Mr. Flintstone asked:
...but ballistically speaking, how close are they.[?]

Very close. With the 30 Carbine you are pushing a 110 grain bullet out of an 18 inch barrel in front of 40,000 psi of pressure. With the 327 you are pushing a 100 or 115 grain bullet out of the same length barrel in front of 45,000 psi of pressure. Muzzle velocities are comparable. Ballistic properties of the projectiles are comparable. While someone could always choose to cherry-pick one metric to the exclusion of others and declare one superior to the other, they would be, for all intents and purposes, interchangeable at short distances on game up to deer.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have a pair of marlin 62s, one of each caliber with the different stocks. With he different caliber also came different barrel lengths...ok the .256 is technically my dad's gun but it is currently living with me. I recently bought he 30 carbine for a whopping 125 bucks. Here's my breakdown since I reload the 32 family of cartridges and am now in the 30 carbine game.

Advantages/Disadvantages of each:
30 carbine (model 62)
+50 round box of loaded ammo in the 18-22 dollar range.
+Available anywhere with a halfway decent ammo shelf.
+Will be supported by ammo makers forever due to high volumes of milsurp rifles.
+History of known capability
+tapered rounds typically feed a little better in lever guns.
+ short short short stroke
- not a traditional looking levergun
-small magazine capacity
- part availability if needed
=old school Marlin gun
327Fed levers
- 50 rd box of ammo in the 30+ dollar range (still not cheaper than us30m1c to reload either)
-apparent benefit of interchangeability is typically negated when shorter rounds don't work in most guns.
- ammo is less available locally so you will need to either find a good source or buy online ***negated if you reload
- less history of use/capability data but the data thats out there is promising
-straightwall rounds don't feed as well in levers BUT a properly tuned gun feeds fine...for what it's tuned to. Just don't try 32sw in a 327 gun and jam it.
-Traditional stroke length on the rifle makes it less speedy
+traditional look for those who are aesthetically concerned
+tube mag holds a lot more rounds (but it may be funky to load)
+current production gun with warranty and parts available for customization or repair
=Henry makes a good gun and I don't foresee major failures due to design or materials.

Long story short, they are balistically similar however that's where the similarity stops. The guns are different enough that a man could logically have one of each. If I didn't have childhood experience with the 62 I wouldn't have been drawn to the one I bought. Either way you can't go wrong. In an either/or scenario I would put my money on the 62 in caliber us30m1c as i did, then find a good excuse to buy the 327 later...I'm still trying to find that excuse and cash at the same time.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I'm also looking at buying a lever gun. Because I already reload 357 I'm going with that. It's a pretty versatile cartridge and it's velocity potential is impressive. I won't say what that velocity is but reloading manuals have very conservative 357 data. Some new powders have expanded our universe.

I have a Henry 357 with the 20 inch barrel, and I really like it; although it is picky about some ammo, especially in 38 special. I have loaded some hot loads with 140 gr XTP and JSP right at 2000 fps/1250 ft-lbs, and lighter bullets much faster. For comparison, 150 gr Rem Core-Lokt 30-30 is 2390 fps/1900 ft-lbs. I'm sure that with the right load/bullet combo, deer sized animals would be no problem out to 100 yards.

I don't know why I'm looking at the smaller caliber lever guns except that I just want one.

 

[Speedo66]

With Buffalo Bore rounds in .357 you’re pretty close to a 30-30.

158g HP, 2150 out of an 18” barrel.

 

[Crowman]

I bought a 16” Henry large loop lever carbine in .327 Federal before Thanksgiving. I like the handling and the action is slick. I may change the sights and put a ghost ring sight on it. I bought it as a companion to my 7-shot GP100 in .327 Federal.

Have not had the opportunity to try it out yet...went deer hunting (bagged one for the freezer-6.5 Creedmoor Ruger GSR), then weather got too cold, had 12” snow, 3 day power outage, I got strep throat for around three weeks, then had a house full of company over Christmas. Once it warms up some I’ll head out in the woods and play with it.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I have a Henry 357 with the 20 inch barrel, and I really like it; although it is picky about some ammo, especially in 38 special. I have loaded some hot loads with 140 gr XTP and JSP right at 2000 fps/1250 ft-lbs, and lighter bullets much faster. For comparison, 150 gr Rem Core-Lokt 30-30 is 2390 fps/1900 ft-lbs. I'm sure that with the right load/bullet combo, deer sized animals would be no problem out to 100 yards.

I don't know why I'm looking at the smaller caliber lever guns except that I just want one.

Nothing wrong with that. 327 Fed is a nice little cartridge. I'm sure that 327 Henry will be popular. I haven't truly made up my mind yet about my next rifle. I sold my 77/357 and I'm setting here with a mountain of brass. 357 brass is easy to sell tho and might just get out of the cartridge altogether. I don't shoot it my model 19's anymore as I prefer 38 spl. there. That's a tough one.

2000 fps is doable with an 18" barrel. Seen it with my own eyes.Probably the new 30-30.

 

[Saleen322]

Here are the results of some load testing with a Henry 327 rifle and a Ruger GP100 in 327. The chart indicates which firearm is used.



This is my first experience with Henry rifles and this thing handles everything without a hiccup from 32 S&W longs with a minimum OAL of 1.16" to 327 mags with a maximum length of 1.53". The 100 SP is factory Federal rounds that I paid about $23 for boxes of 50. Local shops have 327 of some flavor in stock the last I checked because I now have enough brass to load and don't buy much new stuff anymore. Because ammo prices were mentioned, I did a quick check online and Lucky Gunner has Federal 50 round boxes at $26 per box so it did not change that much. I don't have a 30 carbine but I do have a contender barrel in 32-20. SAMMI MAP for the 327 magnum is 45K PSI where SAMMI MAP for the 32-20 is 16K CUP. I think it would be challenging to get more effective velocity in a 32-20 with a similar sized projectile within SAMMI pressure limits. Out of curiosity I looked at the Lyman reloading manuals I have (#47 and 49) for 32-20 where the highest velocities Lyman showed was in #47 using a Savage Sporter and Marlin 27S with 24" barrels for testing and the max velocity Lyman showed was 1984 fps with a 100 grain jacketed SP. YMMV

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've got two .30's; A 1943 Saginaw S.G. Carbine, and a Ruger N.M.
Also, a Single-7 5.5"bbl .327 Federal.

Ballistically, close. Functionally, two rather different critters.

The Saginaw is slightly more accurate than a 20ga shotgun shooting #1 buck. Fun little gun to shoot, easy to carry, but I wouldn't be comfortable hunting deer with it. Power wise, with a good bullet, it's powerful enough, just not adequately accurate, though I did medal with it in the only CMP match I shot it in. But, to shoot Gold, it'll take a new Criterion barrel to make the grade.

Both the Rugers are decently accurate. The .30 being better than you've been lead to believe. But, both have substantial "thread choke" in the barrels that limits them. Still working on that...

The deal with the .327 and Single-7 is that it will do mild to WILD chambering 5 different cartridges (.32acp, .32 S&W, .32s&wl, .32H&R, .327mag).
My standard load for it is a Lee 113gr FNGC over 10.0gr #2400. It gets carried a LOT.
The .30Ruger gets same bullet over 12.8gr #2400. Noticeable greater power, but is TOO BIG to really carry. Mostly a fun range toy...

 

[Madcap_Magician]

neither are close enough for me to sell my 32-20,s, 85gr bullet at 2200 fps and a 100gr bullet at 2100 fps. eastbank.

Since your are a reloader follow eastbank's suggestion and go with the 32-20. The 32 and 327 Magnums are wannabes especially in a rifle.

From BallisticsByTheInch:

.327 Federal Magnum (18" barrel)
85 gr Federal Hydra-Shok......1910 fps
100 gr American Eagle JSP....2186 fps
115 gr Speer Gold Dot............1880 fps

.30 Carbine is usually pushing a 110 gr at about 1950 +/- 50 fps from an 18" barrel.

A .327 Federal 100-gr. JSP at 2186 fps isn't close enough to a .32-20 100-gr. bullet at 2100 fps?

 

[CraigC]

Some interesting posts. I love the .32-20 and have been shooting it for years but case life is short with heavy loads. The .327 does everything it does with the added benefit stronger brass and carbide dies.