How close to 357 numbers with 38 spl+P
- Thread starter BossHogg
- Start date
- Status
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Look for .38-44 Heavy Duty loads. Think 158-173gr cast bullets at ~1300fps.
Hammerdown77
Member
Are those .38-44 loads from Keith, Craig? I know I've seen some heavy 38 loads from Uncle Elmer, but I don't have any of that data in front of me at the moment.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Keith's load was 13.5gr 2400 under his 173gr SWC. Standard primers only.
USSR
Member
If you're asking for .38-44 load data using those two powders, they are too fast for that.
Don
Two Old Dogs
Member
FWIW:
SAAMI Specilfications:
.357 Magnum: Maxium Average Pressure: 35,000 psi
Maxium Average Proof Pressure: 50,500 psi
.38 Special +P: Maxium Average Pressure: 18,500 psi
Maxium Average Proof Pressure: 27,500 psi
YOu can't safely make a .357 Magnum out of a .38 Special, no matter what frame you are using.
SAAMI Specilfications:
.357 Magnum: Maxium Average Pressure: 35,000 psi
Maxium Average Proof Pressure: 50,500 psi
.38 Special +P: Maxium Average Pressure: 18,500 psi
Maxium Average Proof Pressure: 27,500 psi
YOu can't safely make a .357 Magnum out of a .38 Special, no matter what frame you are using.
Black Knight
Member
Like Two Old Dogs tried to say, "If you want 357 Magnum performance get a 357 Magnum revolver". I have seen many pictures of 38 Special guns that the owners tried to make into 357 magnums by uping the loads. Most were not pretty at all. Some owners even lost fingers from it. I know the Ruger GP100 was designed for 357 Magnum but I'm not sure the 38 Special chambered model is equally strong. When in doubt err on the side of safety. We don't want buddies to loose anything they need to enjoy the sport or life.
I agree. Mine are strictly for hiking.
Your GP is just as strong as its 357 counterpart. Chambers drilled shorter and .38 stamped on the barrel. Cheapest way for them to make a 38. The early SPs?? well.... that's a different story. They were actually shorter.
ZeSpectre
Member
I've seen .38 Special +P stuff rated as high as 480 ft/lb of muzzle energy (double tap) which I would NOT run in an older gun though the OP's GP should be fine. The Buffalo Bore Skidder lists in the previous post would come out to about 548 ft/lb (which exceeds my comfort level for a .38 special only gun of any stripe)
Most of the .357 Magnum loads I've seen [barring Cowboy action "powder puff" loads] -start- at about 500 ft/lb and can run as high as 750-800 ft/lb so, not really in the same category at all.
In short, if you want a .357 Magnum-like load you pretty much have to have a .357 Magnum.
Most of the .357 Magnum loads I've seen [barring Cowboy action "powder puff" loads] -start- at about 500 ft/lb and can run as high as 750-800 ft/lb so, not really in the same category at all.
In short, if you want a .357 Magnum-like load you pretty much have to have a .357 Magnum.
Last edited:
beatledog7
Member
Holy Blastoff, Batman! 1250 FPS from a .38SPL?! Did you notice they use Starline brass for that little piece of ballistic legerdemain?
Deer_Freak
Member.
Even if you could load the 38 spl to 357 mag pressures it would defeat the purpose of having a 38 spl. Most people buy a 38 because they don't like the muzzle blast and the recoil of a 357 mag. I own three 357 mag pistols. I have never fired a 38 spl load in any of them. I have a 9mm that is cheaper to shoot and it pretty much duplicates what a 38 does.
That Buffalo Bore load (158@1250) exceeds the 38-44 load by 100 FPS.
Current mainstream +P (125@925) is a mild target load not worthy of consideration for self-defense use. The notion that +P is a hot load is nothing more than mass hysteria caused by a marketing myth.
Check out this ad for S&W labeled ammo from the 1970s. Note the 125 JHP at 1380 FPS. Go ahead and tell me again how current +P at 925 FPS is a real killer load.
Current mainstream +P (125@925) is a mild target load not worthy of consideration for self-defense use. The notion that +P is a hot load is nothing more than mass hysteria caused by a marketing myth.
Check out this ad for S&W labeled ammo from the 1970s. Note the 125 JHP at 1380 FPS. Go ahead and tell me again how current +P at 925 FPS is a real killer load.
ZeSpectre
Member
Yeah,
125gr @ 1380fps = 529 ft/lb at the muzzle.
125gr @ 925fps = 237 ft/lb at the muzzle.
Man some of those mid-to-late 70's loads were HOT!
125gr @ 1380fps = 529 ft/lb at the muzzle.
125gr @ 925fps = 237 ft/lb at the muzzle.
Man some of those mid-to-late 70's loads were HOT!
788Ham
Member
I've got a 1931 Smith 38-44, I've shot "today's" +P loads in it, eats them like candy. I won't even think of reloading anything hot and shoot it in that revolver, I've got other .38's that will handle the hotter loads.
aliveisalive
Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 168
What about loading those old loads for use in a 357 frame but using a .38 case?
Reason I ask is .38 cases are dime a dozen, .357 not so much unless you buy new.
Reason I ask is .38 cases are dime a dozen, .357 not so much unless you buy new.
I've seen this load posted often, but have also seen the warning to back the powder charge down about 1 grain due to a change in the formulation of 2400 powder. I just got some 2400 and plan to try this load in my Ruger .357 snubby for a woods carry load, but starting lower and working my way up.
ZeSpectre
Member
Sure, but you'd best mark them VERY WELL so you don't mistakenly put them in the wrong gun.
BaltimoreBoy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 255
I have read elsewhere on THR that the Security Six in 38spl was identical to the same gun in 357. The only difference being that the chambers (not the cylinder) were shorter and that if one reamed out the chamber to 357 length one could fire 357 in it.
Is it possible/likely that the even more robust GP100 is built the same way?
Is it possible/likely that the even more robust GP100 is built the same way?
ZeSpectre
Member
I have heard this debated, I have never seen anyone with documented proof that it is so and since (as I often say) the difference between a fine firearm and a hand-grenade is very very small, I simply can't understand why people insist on trying to "hotrod" guns rather than just buying what they wanted in the first place.
But hey, it's your body/hands/eyes at risk not mine so y'all can do what you please (just don't do it near me at the range).
Hammerdown77
Member
I can't imagine why Ruger would take a GP100, a gun designed to fire full power 357 magnum, and then add the extra expense of making a 38 Special version that was structurally incapable of handling 357. The most logical and cost effective thing for them to do would be to cut the chambers in the cylinder shorter and then say "38 Special only". Well, yeah, 'cause you can only fit a 38 cartridge in the cylinder now.
But I think I'd want Ruger to confirm that.
AND, I'd be extra super nervous about any of those 357 mag pressure level 38s getting into one of my other "38 only" guns by accident...
But I think I'd want Ruger to confirm that.
AND, I'd be extra super nervous about any of those 357 mag pressure level 38s getting into one of my other "38 only" guns by accident...
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
If I remember right, the .38Spl GP's were for export and some stayed here. There was a legal reason why they were so-chambered and not .357's. Yes, the guns are the same. No, despite the cries of the safety police, it is perfectly safe to fire any .38-44 load in any .357Mag. It is also perfectly safe to do so in various .38Spl's. Like the original .38-44HD, Colt SAA's and New Service revolvers, USFA's, etc.. The folks that 'know' have been doing this for decades without incident. It seems it's only those who have never done and would never do it who are the loudest.
It's also worthy of note that some bullets do not fit in some cylinders when loaded in .357 cases. Like the 173gr Keith bullet in K-frames.
Personally, I'd rather think for myself than blindly adhere to safety rules written by lawyers for the sake of liability.
It's also worthy of note that some bullets do not fit in some cylinders when loaded in .357 cases. Like the 173gr Keith bullet in K-frames.
Personally, I'd rather think for myself than blindly adhere to safety rules written by lawyers for the sake of liability.
Sergei Mosin
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2011
- Messages
- 1,918
SaxonPig,
I note that the fine print in that ad says "Note: muzzle velocity and energy figures were obtained using industry standard test barrels." How long was an industry standard test barrel in those days?
I note that the fine print in that ad says "Note: muzzle velocity and energy figures were obtained using industry standard test barrels." How long was an industry standard test barrel in those days?
I believe they used a 6" barrel. Actual velocities ran a little less, like 50-75 FPS less.
788Ham- Just for fun, try inserting a 357 cartridge in your 38/44. About half of these guns were reamed for Magnums at some point. I have never heard of one breaking from being fired with Magnum ammo. Not that I recommend doing this, just chuckling at your "I won't even think of reloading anything hot and shoot it in that revolver..." comment.
788Ham- Just for fun, try inserting a 357 cartridge in your 38/44. About half of these guns were reamed for Magnums at some point. I have never heard of one breaking from being fired with Magnum ammo. Not that I recommend doing this, just chuckling at your "I won't even think of reloading anything hot and shoot it in that revolver..." comment.
- Status
