How come BP rifles don't blow up during loading?

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CANNONMAN

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I am once again enthralled and amazed at the knowledge base found here. Thanks for my Hx lesson. Todays question is: I don't understand why I've not heard about accidental ignition from a steel ram rod in a steel barrel. I see these guys loading the muzzle and at times the rod and barrel are pointed at their heads. My little flinter is brass and for my cannons I use wood for a ram. I never stand, much less look, into the barrel when loading.


{Side Note} If I asked a question concerning operation, function and safety in the modern weapon's section I know several of the responses would be sharp and degrading. I own well over a hundred "black" guns and now see no reason to ask questions regarding many facets of them. When I think of the hubris of the modern gun owner I think of the quote: "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member." The kindred sprit here... It's as if your listening to Paul Harvey explain BP to you. Thanks all and... "Good Day!"
 
Both barrel and [a steel] ramrod are hardened, have no sharp edges to carve/shave
off pieces of each others' metal surface, the jag is brass/bronze, and everything is
running parallel [not at an angle] --> extremely low prob of ignition source.

That said, my loading [as opposed to cleaning] rods/starter are wood, brass,
fiberglass. No chance there.

On the OTHER hand, I have seen powder go "...whooouummmp!" when first poured into
a barrel/finding an ember at the bottom during rapid-fire N-SSA events. THAT's where
you learn to keep your head & hands out of the line of fire. :eek:


Postscript:
Running a faintly-damp patch down/up the barrel between patched-ball rounds is great insurance. ;)
 
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Never seen one spark off on loading but I still don't put my head in the way if the barrel when doing so
 
I saw this History Channel show on the Civil War and was told here that the rods were steel. Since steel on steel is a classic nono. It seems there would be instances of accidents by using the steel rod?
 
CANNONMAN said:
I saw this History Channel show on the Civil War and was told here that the rods were steel. Since steel on steel is a classic nono. It seems there would be instances of accidents by using the steel rod?
Click to expand...
curious why that would be a problem, since the powder is loaded first, then a greased miniball or a patched roundball, then the rod.... how exactly would a spark even get to the powder? not being a smart a#@, just curious.....
 
Steel/iron rods were common during the American Revolution and throughout the Civil War.
 
Military ramrods have traditionally been steel for over 200 years.
That includes repros of guns like the British Brown Bess on down to our Civil War rifles.

I've never heard of an "accident" caused by steel rods.
Denis
 
Rev War to Civil War re-enactors armed with muskets leave their steel ramrods at camp and are not used on the the "battlefield". The fear is someone will leave a ramrod in the barrel in the excitement of the battle, and then, it becomes a " airborne missile" to the opposing side.

Many competition shooters use either a brass or stainless steel range rod for loading/cleaning/removing. These rods have a brass or nylon bore guide to keep the rod from excessive wear on the crown of the barrel.

Rapid -fire shooting is the leading cause of accidental "cook-off" of powder.

Black powder gun charges cannot explode because the powder load has to be compressed to explode. If it ignites before a wad and/or ball is inserted, there will be no explosion, just a "whoosh" and smoke.
Once the wad or ball is seated, the powder is in no danger of accidental ignition.
 
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My 1861 Springfield has a steel ramrod but I do not use it on the powder, mostly because I usually just give the butt a good thump on the ground after dumping in my powder load to settle it, then I start the patch and ball and then seat the ball on the powder with the ramrod (or I usually use a 1/2" wooden dowel). The powder is never exposed to the end of the ramrod because the ball and patch are between them.
 
CANNONMAN said:
I saw this History Channel show on the Civil War and was told here that the rods were steel. Since steel on steel is a classic nono. It seems there would be instances of accidents by using the steel rod?
Click to expand...
There was a much more likelihood of sending your ramrod downrange rather than touching off the charge.... especially when behind the bullet... in my opinion... :cool:
 
Re-enactors often use no ramrods at all, since they don't ever load a projectile. They just pour a powder charge down the barrel and bounce the butt on the ground to settle it; firing a cap will give a satisfactory "thump".

FWIW, I have never seen or heard of a steel ramrod causing a spark and setting off a powder charge, though I have not done as much BP shooting as many others here.

In the old days, it was pretty common for soldiers to "throw" the ramrod, so the fingers were out of the way if the powder charge did ignite from a spark. Also, the hammer was never cocked until the musket was loaded, thus keeping a spark from being subjected to a draft of air that would cause it to flare up.*

And the shooter, then or now, would hold the ramrod with his index finger and thumb, not with his whole hand; if the charge did let go, he would lose only part of his hand, not the whole thing.

*Gunners made sure to keep the vent blocked with the thumbstall for the same reason, otherwise, even if the gun had been sponged, a spark could result in the shot and rammer taking off the loader's hands and arms.

Jim
 
I saw this History Channel show on the Civil War and was told here that the rods were steel. Since steel on steel is a classic nono. It seems there would be instances of accidents by using the steel rod?
Click to expand...

How about loading iron cannonballs into iron barrels?
 
Before the flak comes up, when I said re-enactors don't load projectiles, I was referring to those who do the mass re-enacting at places like Gettysburg, not the NSSA folks and others who definitely do fire real bullets. (Unless they cut those posts off with mind-power of some kind!)

Jim
 
Yes indeed, the "steel" in the frizzen, an the steel in the fire making kit are "high carbon" and they are hardened...then they are subjected to a very sharp edge of a very hard stone to shave off a very small piece and the friction causes that fragment to super heat. A barrel and a ramrod are simply nowhere near as hard nor as sharp...

Cookoffs...yes I've seen them, and they were from very rapid fire.

One could also wonder why when ramming a 1 ounce lead ball onto powder using a steel ramrod the compression doesn't cause an explosion...the impact simply isn't enough pressure in a musket, plus the nipple or the touch hole would prevent a sufficient pressure spike for that to happen.

LD
 
BTW, it would have to be quite a heavy blow before steel on steel will cause a spark. Pour a few grains of powder on an anvil and strike it with a hammer. It's not that easy.
 
I still wouldn't stick my head over the barrel when loading it

That part puzzles me more than the question about sparking from a metal ramrod
 
I still wouldn't stick my head over the barrel when loading it
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. At the Ben Avery Range in Phoenix, they have racks that may be used to load from. The racks hold the muzzle at an angle away from your head. Other muzzle loaders bring a wedge that they clamp to the bench and this allows them to cant their smoke poles at an angle while they load. At the Prator Range, we have one stand that has a shelf upon which you may place your accessories, a "v" cut notch against which you place the barrel and on the bottom of the stand which rests on the floor is a wood platform with a hole that the heel of the stock drops nicely into.

BTW, didn't Fess Parker in the old Daniel Boone Series used to lean on the muzzle of his rifle with his chin?
 
Rev War to Civil War re-enactors armed with muskets leave their steel ramrods at camp and are not used on the the "battlefield". The fear is someone will leave a ramrod in the barrel in the excitement of the battle, and then, it becomes a " airborne missile" to the opposing side.
Click to expand...

Well-run reenactments enforce the "no ramrod" rule as well as other safety regulations. However, I've participated in reenactments that are not so well-run.

A bigger danger than shooting the whole ramrod is shooting just the tip of the ramrod, since a broken-off tip is not so noticeable. Many of today's reproduction ramrods have welded-on tips that are liable to breaking off. Originals were made in one piece.

I've never heard of ramrods sparking in the bore and setting off a charge.
 
It does happen.
Back when I did the civ war re-enactment thing there was an incident where a cannon crew had a tompion/ramrod blow out of a hot gun and go flying out across the field.
Thankfully no one was stuck.
I've owned several military musket type guns that have steel ramrods. Never had an issue with it.
Safety demands you hold the barrel in such an orientation that when the powder charge is dropped in the barrel if it auto ignites the blast is directed away. This is especially true in guns repeatedly fired as at a re-enactment. The old military way was to hold the weapon with the muzzle angled away as the ramrod was used. Once the ball was seated and the rammer returned to the pipes the tip of the little finger was the only thing near the direct path of the muzzle as the ramrod was shoved back into place in the pipes with the tip of the little finger.
On a normal shooting pace I allow a few moments to elapse and then blow down the bore before I recharge with powder.
 
During the show it was mentioned how the Spencer [?] also had the advantage of not giving grief to the combatant lying in a trench to pour powder and pack a ball. I seriously doubt that conditions and training prevented issues such as residual powder left in the barrel that came in contact with the steel ram rod and/or allowing the ram rod to be pointed at one's head. Doing one's best to load and shoot 2-3 in a minute while being shot at all while standing in a line, well, mistakes are going to happen. I know of no one who would attempt to recreate these circumstances, much less use a steel ram rod. As such, if it is such a nono, why are there no recorded accidents historically or modern? All of you know more than I. I am interested and do not wish to appear quarrelsome. There are many modern philosophy's of behavior that are formed from historically inadequate science. Static electricity and BP being one of them.
 
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