How Come M1-Type Rifles Cost so Much?

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Prices are driven by the law of supply and demand. I paid $650 for my last one this year. The first one I got from the government in the 70's cost me $165. Back then there was not much interest in them. If you want one get one now as the price will only go up.

I got mine through the DCM for $165. It was once in a lifetime and the amount of paperwork you had to submit was monumental, but I got one. My Gun Club President (now ex Pres) had been going to Camp Perry since the early 1960's. Garands were real hard to get back then, if you went to the National Matches you could buy a NM Garand, but I am not sure if it was every Camp Perry or not. The Club Pres said, Garands were so hard to acquire, he got his, after his Devine M1a! Which would have been late 1970's.

I built my match versions from the Blue Sky Garands that came in from Korea. The one that had the best barrel, what looked to be fouling in the Gun Store, some Korean had fired a rock in the barrel. That became my first NM version. Learned all about slamfires in that thing, and it was all due to Federal Match primers. They are the most sensitive primers on the market, lots of shooters used them because the box says "Match". At the time, the only allowable causes of slamfires were "high primers" and "your worn out receiver bridge", this is what Gunwriters told us in the printed magazines of the time. The concept of primer sensitivity did not exist. A primer was a primer was a primer. I was not certain about primer height on the first out of battery slamfire, but the second one, I had absolutely made sure all the primer pockets were reamed, and that I personally inspected each and every primer to determine it was well below the case head. After the second out of battery slamfire, I decided conventional wisdom was bunk and that the real cause of slamfires was sensitive primers. You would not believe the push back I got from the shooting community. Some very nasty stuff and lots of out right denial. Thankfully the internet came along, and the AR 15. I was able to find hundreds of slamfire experiences, in every semi automatic rifle out there, to bolster my argument, and those skeptics, nay sayers, and hateful types, while they are still around, they are not as vocal.
 
gsbuickman writes:

On another note, I have a deal pending on an interesting rifle that you rarely see these days. A Marlin Model 99-M1 22LR carbine. It's still in the original Walnut stock and has the M1 rear sight on it.

I have two of these, one of which is like yours, with its original (and somewhat rare!) rear sight still affixed. The other has a nicer stock, possibly re-finished (and quite attractive, IMO), but is missing that rear sight. In its place is a nice scope; the rifle is also slung.

The first rifle dates from prior to the effective date of the GCA's requirement for serial numbers, too.

They're neat little carbines.. now I'd like to find a 99M2. ;)
 
I think that there is a lot of confusion or ignorance concerning the Garand, M1A, and M1 carbine in this thread. As far as I know, no Garands were built in Canada, Springfield Armory does not currently build M1 Garands, and the M1A is not a Garand.....
 
The OP stated "new, garand type rifles". To me, an m1a is certainly an m1 type rifle. So is the ruger mini. The m1 carbine is a stretch, but if it has the flat bolt it does appear visually somewhat similar. But if we throw out the carbine, it still leaves us with fulton armory garands, LRB, springfield or norinco m1a's and ruger mini guns right?
 
Some people say it's supply and demand, and others say the gun costs a lot to manufacture. I guess no one knows the answer.

I'm not looking to buy one. I got my fill of big ol' .30ish-caliber monsters when I bought my K31. Not sure what to do with it now that the cheap Swiss ammo is gone forever.

I have always been amazed that our country sent men into battle with guns that literally sounded an alarm when they ran out of ammunition. The Nazis must have loved that. Reminds me of the faulty WWII torpedoes that missed, went off early, didn't go off at all, or circled back to hit the subs that fired them. It has to be terrible to be fighting the enemy with a weapon that needs to be redesigned.
 
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I have always been amazed that our country sent men into battle with guns that literally sounded an alarm when they ran out of ammunition. The Nazis must have loved that. Reminds me of the faulty WWII torpedoes that missed, went off early, didn't go off at all, or circled back to hit the subs that fired them. It has to be terrible to be fighting the enemy with a weapon that needs to be redesigned.
This gets mentioned a lot without consideration for the conditions or training present. Rarely is a soldier fighting alone (typically now and then there are 4-11 friendlies in direct proximity) or in a battle setting that any individual sound can be heard, on top of which the enemy would have to be in a position to do something about it in the small amount of time it takes to reload.
 
Some people say it's supply and demand, and others say the gun costs a lot to manufacture. I guess no one knows the answer.

I'm not looking to buy one. I got my fill of big ol' .30ish-caliber monsters when I bought my K31. Not sure what to do with it now that the cheap Swiss ammo is gone forever.

I have always been amazed that our country sent men into battle with guns that literally sounded an alarm when they ran out of ammunition. The Nazis must have loved that. Reminds me of the faulty WWII torpedoes that missed, went off early, didn't go off at all, or circled back to hit the subs that fired them. It has to be terrible to be fighting the enemy with a weapon that needs to be redesigned.


There have been threads on the mythical Garand "ping" on empty. Most claim it was never real; German soldiers never actually heard it, the noise of battle over rides it, if not the confusion. I tend to fall into this camp. I don't really believe the ping ever amounted to anything in WW2.
 
Paid $200 for mine in a pawn shop 45 years ago.:evil:
It's a 1942 vintage. A year older than me.
 
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Some people say it's supply and demand, and others say the gun costs a lot to manufacture. I guess no one knows the answer.

I'm not looking to buy one. I got my fill of big ol' .30ish-caliber monsters when I bought my K31. Not sure what to do with it now that the cheap Swiss ammo is gone forever.

I have always been amazed that our country sent men into battle with guns that literally sounded an alarm when they ran out of ammunition. The Nazis must have loved that. Reminds me of the faulty WWII torpedoes that missed, went off early, didn't go off at all, or circled back to hit the subs that fired them. It has to be terrible to be fighting the enemy with a weapon that needs to be redesigned.
 
Best part of that video is where there's a very loud "PING" followed by, "And that first ping is really not very loud at all."
 
our country sent men into battle with guns that literally sounded an alarm when they ran out of ammunition. The Nazis must have loved that.
The "deadly" Garand "ping"? Really?

Soldaten is over here shooing 8mm mauser a meter from his head, circa 165dB, and is going to hear a 65dB "ping" 100 meters away? Oh, and he's shooting in his squad of eight with the other seven about 5-6 meters away from each other. And all at a squad off 8-12 guys on the other side. The "bad guy" shooter is facing a target about 50-57m wide having to decide which muzzle flash to bang away at. So, yeah, he's hiding behind a rock or some such waiting to hear a "ping."


Reminds me of the faulty WWII torpedoes that missed, went off early, didn't go off at all, or circled back to hit the subs that fired them. It has to be terrible to be fighting the enemy with a weapon that needs to be redesigned.
Completely different issue.
Due to the Depression, funding for the Navy Department was tight (tight too for the War Department, matter of fact). So, the Bureau of Ordinance used the Torpedo Station, Newport (Goat Island) as the sole supplier for USN torpedoes. Production rate was not high. Each torpedo had a lot of hand fitting.

US torpedo R & D remained a bit stagnant, but ship design did not. Heavier armor belts and multiple protective bulkheads reduced effectiveness (especially at oblique angles). to counter this, the Torpedo Factory ginned up a work-around. This was the magnetic exploder.

To work, you needed a reasonably accurate idea of how low a ship was in the water (Naval Intelligence had rather accurate draft depths for most enemy combatants). Then, you set the torpedo run depth. The torpedo then ran 8-10 feet deeper than the set depth, and when the magnetic influence was highest, set off the warhead. In theory, this is the most effective anti-ship attack. The underwater explosion forms as an inverted bell shap underwater in response to the pressure differential by depth. So, that was additive in the upward direction.

Problem was that the Torpedo Factory did not have the funds to test the exploder in a wide range of seawater conditions. They also did not test the depth control sensors in a wide variety of seawater. (Seawater is widely variable in salt contnet, temperatures, temperature clines, and the like.) Also, the Torpedo Facotry did not have the funds to actually test their torpedos on actual targets.

In actual practice, the torpedoes ran about twice the depth they were set for. This put them out of range for magnetic sensing. The contact detonators were installed as an after thought, in space remaining, and were never thoroughly tested, either.

Many of these problems were corrected when Bell Labs and Westinghouse were brought in to produce torpedoes in war quantities. Which was sore complicated by the near lack of blueprints.
 
ross,

I clicked "like" but still need to say that is a nice rifle. Looks like a great muzzle on it, too.

Too bad International Harvester did not offer those rifles in the IH stores right alongside the combines and the (Ugh! Get'em up...) Scouts!

-kBob
 
$15 shipping charge for a $94 rifle! Now the shipping would be around $30, but IHC field grade is $850.
 
$15 shipping charge for a $94 rifle! Now the shipping would be around $30, but IHC field grade is $850.

it appears there are only 2 grades of IHC currently available on the CMP site with only the receiver guaranteed to be IHC.

RM1IHCS M1 Garand IHC Service Grade. Only part guaranteed to be IHC is the receiver. Some other parts could be IHC but not guaranteed. Please see M1 Service Grade description above. $1080.00
Free Shipping

Shipping within 2 weeks

RM1IHCF M1 Garand IHC Field Grade. Only part guaranteed to be IHC is the receiver. Some other parts could be IHC but not guaranteed. Please see M1 Field Grade description above.
$980.00
Free Shipping


Shipping within 2 weeks
 
Supply and demand is not the only pricing dynamic in the world. Prices don’t always drop if demand drops - if there is a market for a product, a limited demand, and a company has investment in a product, they can live in a paradigm of price tolerance. Prices on luxury items don’t follow laws of supply and demand, only their rate of PRODUCTION will vary with variant demand. Companies will charge what consumers will pay, balanced by a hurdle for return on production and inventory investments. If a luxury item costs too much, the price will drive down market demand, which increases the production and inventory costs to the company - So the company has the option to bail on their product, close the market, or find a way to market the product at the higher price more effectively. Why did Garand and M1a prices skyrocket a decade ago - because less people want Base models, and the few people who do want them will pay what someone tells them to pay...
 
Captain Mac: You need to do a little more research on the torpedo problem. It was mainly a CYA issue where those responsible for the acceptance of the faulty torpedoes were also involved in processing the complaints from the submarine reports. My Uncle spent 3+ years in Japanese prison camps partially due to torpedo duds first giving them away and then preventing the sub from protecting itself.
 
You know, the older I am, the better I was....;)
That there’s funny stuff

Some here say it’s greed. You know the difference between intelligent business and greed?

If you’re selling at a given price getting top dollar, you’re greedy. If I’m selling at the same price, I’m an intelligent business man.

Kinda like owning a piece of marsh land. If I own it, it’s a wetland wildlife preserve. If you own it, it’s a swamp.
 
Kinda like owning a piece of marsh land. If I own it, it’s a wetland wildlife preserve. If you own it, it’s a swamp.
I own some of that wetland wildlife preserve. I know it isn't a swamp because there's no water in it. I feel rather fortunate because it wasn't even there when I bought the property. Everyone loves those green belts and exclusive wildlife habitat zones these days, especially pavement dwellers. I just wish the deer would stop eating my apples.:D
 
There have been one or two attempts to build and market commercial M1 Garands post government manufacture of the rifles. They were not a market success in part due to the number of military surplus M1's available. It is expensive to build a Garand from scratch. Some of these attempts to build commercial Garands relied on surplus supplies of parts to keep the cost down. Needless to say, no post government production Garands are still in production at this time.

There are just too many surplus Garands available on the market to permit market success of commercially produced M1s.

I would not mind getting a commercial M1 from the Illinois Springfield Armory with a 7 million serial number but I am not actively looking at present.
 
The Springfield in IL tried that and had them listed for $995 back at the turn of the century when one could buy a Greek Rack Grade for $295 plus shipping.

"The "new" Springfield Armory Inc. M1 rifles are cosmetically good looking, but there have been some issues with function. FWIW, The receivers are investment cast, not forged like the originals . . . this is probably not an issue, since SA Inc. has been casting M1A receivers for a long time.

But there are persistent reports that the milsurp parts used in the rest of the rifle may not always be up to spec, whether or not they've been reparked or not.

A number of people at the old battlerifles.com forums reported problems with the "new" guns."

From an old thread.
 
I have noticed that new M1 Garand-type rifles cost a ton of money. I considered buying my dad one a few years back, and I think they were around $1K then. Now they're higher. Question: is there something about the design that makes them expensive?

Seems like you can get a more complicated rifle for significantly less.
I believe M1 prices will level out, the kids now only care about fortnight.
 
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